Who is the worst current coach in terms of having his wrestlers duck matches?

NittanyChris

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Dec 3, 2001
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The most glaring example I recall is Zeke pulling Schultz last year literally moments before he and Kerk were set to wrestle. I think that TNT might have some minor infractions, though most of their instances do appear injury related. I think Tan Tom has had his guys duck, for sure. What do people think? We all know ducking does occur, though perhaps less frequently than we think. I think we can safely assume the wrestlers always wanna go, so it's clearly on the coaches. Which coaches are the worst culprits?

WE ARE!!!
 
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backdrft76

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ElderlyBreakableInganue-size_restricted.gif
 

Shifty15

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The most glaring example I recall is Zeke pulling Schultz last year literally moments before he and Kerk were set to wrestle. I think that TNT might have some minor infractions, though most of their instances do appear injury related. I think Tan Tom has had his guys duck, for sure. What do people think? We all know ducking does occur, though perhaps less frequently than we think. I think we can safely assume the wrestlers always wanna go, so it's clearly on the coaches. Which coaches are the worst culprits?

WE ARE!!!
If only Oregon had wrestling…the “Ducks” would be a natural.
 

El-Jefe

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Remember when Ryan had his son injury default in championship round so he wouldn’t have to face Nolf. Hoping to rack up points in wrestlebacks. Sure that one went well at family dinners.
Except that didn't happen. Jake Ryan was the 11 seed and couldn't have faced Jason until the finals (as if he were going to get there).

Ryan had his son default in Round 1 vs. Michigan's Brian Murphy in order to get a better matchup in consis (his claim, not mine). Which aside from being colossally unethical and insulting to his son, was factually incorrect -- had Jake Ryan beaten Murphy, he would've gotten a much easier Consi Round 2 match.

Brackets: https://dbukjj6eu5tsf.cloudfront.ne...rs.com/documents/2017/3/4/B1G_Brackets_S2.pdf
 
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pish69

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NJ--The Shore
Except that didn't happen. Jake Ryan was the 11 seed and couldn't have faced Jason until the finals (as if he were going to get there).

Ryan had his son default in Round 1 vs. Michigan's Brian Murphy in order to get a better matchup in consis (his claim, not mine). Which aside from being colossally unethical and insulting to his son, was factually incorrect -- had Jake Ryan beaten Murphy, he would've gotten a much easier Consi Round 2 match.

Brackets: https://dbukjj6eu5tsf.cloudfront.ne...rs.com/documents/2017/3/4/B1G_Brackets_S2.pdf
Honestly. I did t even remember why he did it. For some reason thought it was to avoid Nolf. Point stands..weak ass move family or not
 
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McScoreley

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If you want to talk about ducking as seed protection, Zeke Jones did it to a T. Schultz was warmed up and ready to wrestle and was told to take his headgear off (and the kid was not happy)

Cases of forfeits and not wrestling in a dual, every coach has a right to weigh benefits of what can be gained and the health of his wrestlers. I'm not casting stones when our coaches do it as well.
 
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McScoreley

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The most notable case for Brands was probably when he pulled Stoll when Iowa went down to 17-12 and he had a pin Kyle Snyder to win the dual. I think Stoll still had some knee issues and that probably was the right move health wise.

It's a shame, shoot your shot you know?
 

GogglesPaizano

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Im not casting stones when our coaches do it as well.
Do tell. I must have my head in the sand. Defaulting to protect a seed for an otherwise healthy wrestler? I don't recall this ever happening except in cases of legit injury (Suriano & Nolf to name two).

Please elaborate on your statement.
 

nerfstate

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The one I’ll probably always remember with Cael is Shakur vs Myles in Myles’ last B1G finals. Now, Shak was unquestionably dealing with injury—but he did wrestle up until that point. I‘ll remember it because it was so atypical though.
 

ss7

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and every fan has the right to say that it's bullshit.
My issue is that, for the most part, fans don't know what the f*ck they're talking about. We just know when guys don't take the mat. Injuries, illness, weight management, maybe even a team discipline issue...there are a lot of reasons for guys to miss a match. And as fans, we're largely in the dark about all of them.

There's people on this board that accuse the Brands of ducking, which sounds insane to me. There are people on HR that accuse Cael of ducking...also insane. Most of the accusations of ducking, beyond the most glaring examples, are just the normal wrestling boards fan base bickering.
 
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ss7

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The one I’ll probably always remember with Cael is Shakur vs Myles in Myles’ last B1G finals. Now, Shak was unquestionably dealing with injury—but he did wrestle up until that point. I‘ll remember it because it was so atypical though.
Someone needs to explain to me how this is (and the Stoll/Snyder example above) is protecting a seed.

Forfeiting to a guy that's the heavy favorite - and almost guaranteed to be seeded first at NCAAs - doesn't seem to me to have much to do with seed.
 

NittanyChris

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My issue is that, for the most part, fans don't know what the f*ck they're talking about. We just know when guys don't take the mat. Injuries, illness, weight management, maybe even a team discipline issue...there are a lot of reasons for guys to miss a match. And as fans, we're largely in the dark about all of them.

There's people on this board that accuse the Brands of ducking, which sounds insane to me. There are people on HR that accuse Cael of ducking...also insane. Most of the accusations of ducking, beyond the most glaring examples, are just the normal wrestling boards fan base bickering.
I partly agree with you in that there is a lot going on behind the scenes about which fans are unaware. That said, it’s quite apparent that ducking does sometimes occur and it’s bad for the sport. Name another sport where, if healthy enough (note, I didn’t say 100% healthy, because that is a rarity late in the season), the top athletes don’t compete out of fear of consequences for their potential postseason success? It needs to be disincentivized and some coaches are worse culprits than others.
 

El-Jefe

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Someone needs to explain to me how this is (and the Stoll/Snyder example above) is protecting a seed.

Forfeiting to a guy that's the heavy favorite - and almost guaranteed to be seeded first at NCAAs - doesn't seem to me to have much to do with seed.
If Bo Nickal had forfeited to Brunson, would that have been to protect his seed?
 

El-Jefe

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I partly agree with you in that there is a lot going on behind the scenes about which fans are unaware. That said, it’s quite apparent that ducking does sometimes occur and it’s bad for the sport. Name another sport where, if healthy enough (note, I didn’t say 100% healthy, because that is a rarity late in the season), the top athletes don’t compete out of fear of consequences for their potential postseason success? It needs to be disincentivized and some coaches are worse culprits than others.
Name another sport? Let's see in the next few weeks how many football players skip their bowl games in order to protect their NFL Draft status.
 

98lberEating2Lunches

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Remember when Ryan had his son injury default in championship round so he wouldn’t have to face Nolf. Hoping to rack up points in wrestlebacks. Sure that one went well at family dinners.
I have it on great authority this event was the genesis of "positive infinity." With "positive infinity" any amount of negative blowback for this maneuver would be practically immeasurable.

Maybe there should be a rule against actions that compromise the integrity of the sport, although I don't really know how it might be enforced.
 

nerfstate

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Someone needs to explain to me how this is (and the Stoll/Snyder example above) is protecting a seed.

Forfeiting to a guy that's the heavy favorite - and almost guaranteed to be seeded first at NCAAs - doesn't seem to me to have much to do with seed.
Honestly I don’t think it had to do with seed at all. As you say, the coach’s job is to do what’s in the best interest of the athlete and team, regardless of the “optics.” Shak pinned Caffey and beat Venz in that bracket—so you can see how it might seem he was healthy enough to compete. But you never know what was aggravated in the process, etc.
 
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NittanyChris

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Name another sport? Let's see in the next few weeks how many football players skip their bowl games in order to protect their NFL Draft status.
I see your point, though I do think it’s different. Bowl games that are not part of the playoff system are just exhibition games and they have no impact on making a run for a national championship.
 

mrh1645

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Feb 11, 2014
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Honestly. I did t even remember why he did it. For some reason thought it was to avoid Nolf. Point stands..weak ass move family or not
In the PSU-tOSU dual that same year, Ohio State sent out a back-up at 157 vs. Nolf instead of Jake Ryan and a back-up at 174 vs. Mark Hall instead of Bo Jordan. Some PSU fans suggested that the first was to avoid Jake getting destroyed by Nolf and the second was to protect Bo's seed. While both Jake and Bo wrestled the week before against Iowa, neither wrestled in the dual vs. Rutgers, which was 3 days after the PSU dual.
 
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rmg78

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2021 season, I think it was a tri-meet of Iowa/Ohio St./Purdue. Heinselman wrestled Schroeder but did not wrestle against Spencer.
 
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nitlion6

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How does one become a moderator? @Hotshoe
Not a clue. If I was though, the difference most likely would be unnoticeable. Except there might be a requirement for all Hawkeye fans to agree to post a signature phrase at the bottom of all of their posts that would read , "Beer is good, God and Cael are great and Hawkeye Report people are crazy!"
 
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