Why is moving the ball forward pre-snap not a penalty?

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

The Memphis center moved the ball at least a foot on every snap. That means Memphis played every set of downs 1st and 9. On average, it probably shortens the field by about 3-5 yards too. Why is that not an illegal procedure? I've never seen a penalty called for this at any level of football.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

The Memphis center moved the ball at least a foot on every snap. That means Memphis played every set of downs 1st and 9. On average, it probably shortens the field by about 3-5 yards too. Why is that not an illegal procedure? I've never seen a penalty called for this at any level of football.

wat?

 

[ILLINOISLION]

Actually in a game a few weeks ago I saw a center move the ball forward down inside the one yd line and it was actually touching the goal line when it was snapped.

Yeah, never seen it called anywhere / anytime.

(May be called on PSU in a few weeks when we play at tOSU!)

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

wat?

I am assuming a scenario where this benefits the offense, i.e., a sustained 70-80 yard drive -- 3 downs to get a first down and 9-15 plays to score the TD. Obviously, if the offense is nothing but big plays, the effect of moving the ball is minimal. Frankly, some teams (like PSU) really need more sustained drives, so needing only 9 yards in 3 plays instead of 10 is significant.

I tuned into the Memphis game late, but saw enough snaps to conclude that this was a habit on the part of their center. It was blatant, at least the length of the ball. Can't remember the last time I've seen a center do it that much. Usually it's just a few inches if at all.

But I really want to know how a line judge just lets this go. It's obvious.

 

[jim cummings]

Regardless of what the center does with the ball it doesn’t change the line of scrimmage. The Center has to get a grip on the ball. Some guys have longer arms than others, etc...

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

Regardless of what the center does with the ball it doesn’t change the line of scrimmage. The Center has to get a grip on the ball. Some guys have longer arms than others, etc...

The length of the center's arms has nothing to do with it. Why wouldn't he simply plant his feet further back? Instead, what this guy did was plant his feet near the ball, then move it forward. The SMU center did not move the ball. Advantage Memphis.

Obviously, moving the ball doesn't affect the original line of scrimmage, but it could easily affect where linemen position themselves, and hence the effective line of scrimmage. The defense, DEs in particular, line up based on the ball position, not some black line that we get to see on TV. And that line often shows that receivers are lining up in the neutral zone.

I think moving the ball forward should be an illegal procedure penalty. There's no excuse for it.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

The sad part is that if it were called the refs would botch it on replay.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

If the line sets at the original LOS, I do not see how the center adjusting the ball forward or in any direction to facilitate the snap. If, however, the entire line moves forward a foot or the snapers whole body moves forward a foot before the snap then I can see how this would give advantage to the offense.

 

[mean15]

Kinda like holding......happens every play, never called.

 

[Nitwit97]

The Memphis center moved the ball at least a foot on every snap. That means Memphis played every set of downs 1st and 9. On average, it probably shortens the field by about 3-5 yards too. Why is that not an illegal procedure? I've never seen a penalty called for this at any level of football.

It has no impact, you still have to hike it back to the QB who is in the same stationary position whether or not the ball is moved up pre-snap.

 

[marshall23]

Refs are almost as bad as coaches. Doesn't anyone know shit about football with the exception of "us?"

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

It has no impact, you still have to hike it back to the QB who is in the same stationary position whether or not the ball is moved up pre-snap.

That's not necessarily true. The QB and center practice based on the habits of the center. And it's not the QB that is the key player. It is the linemen. Of course, the impact is even more pronounced if the QB goes under center, for a sneak perhaps.

 

[NittPicker]

It has no impact, you still have to hike it back to the QB who is in the same stationary position whether or not the ball is moved up pre-snap.

The DL lines up based on where the ball is. If they line up one foot farther back it's an advantage for the offense, slight as it may be.

 

[Nitwit97]

That's not necessarily true. The QB and center practice based on the habits of the center. And it's not the QB that is the key player. It is the linemen. Of course, the impact is even more pronounced if the QB goes under center, for a sneak perhaps.

It is necessarily true. The QB is in a position

the fact that you had to point out an outlier means your argument holds little merit. How many quarterback sneaks are there in a game? Under 1% for sure.

fact is, it doesn’t matter. Considering the fact that where the ball is placed is a best estimate (judgement) by the refs, it is made all the more irrelevant.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

It is necessarily true. The QB is in a position

the fact that you had to point out an outlier means your argument holds little merit. How many quarterback sneaks are there in a game? Under 1% for sure.

fact is, it doesn’t matter. Considering the fact that where the ball is placed is a best estimate (judgement) by the refs, it is made all the more irrelevant.

Here. This is a real good down-the-line shot of how this impacts where the linemen set themselves. The linemen usually get set after the center takes his position (and moves the ball).



Some of the logic you are providing -- judgment placement by the refs -- clearly shows that it is pointless to conduct a debate with you, so I will end it here. Error in placement by the refs should be random, so that evens out. But bias by the center does not.

And I don't "have to" point out an "outlier." Pretty sure that the play cited by Illinoislion was at the goal line with the QB under center. That's cheating.

 

[Relayer]

Actually in a game a few weeks ago I saw a center move the ball forward down inside the one yd line and it was actually touching the goal line when it was snapped.

Yeah, never seen it called anywhere / anytime.

(May be called on PSU in a few weeks when we play at tOSU!)

I also saw that, looked very strange to be snapping the ball where the nose of the ball was clearly on the goal line.

 

[interrobang]

Why? Because you don't get yardage credit for moving the ball up before it's snapped. Pretty simple.

 

[Nitwit97]

The DL lines up based on where the ball is. If they line up one foot farther back it's an advantage for the offense, slight as it may be.

Officials set the line of scrimmage. Again, if the center is moving the ball prior to snap it is irrelevant

you guys are trying to pick the corn from the sh#t on this one, it isn’t a big deal.

 

[SheldonJoe2215]

Actually in a game a few weeks ago I saw a center move the ball forward down inside the one yd line and it was actually touching the goal line when it was snapped.

Yeah, never seen it called anywhere / anytime.

(May be called on PSU in a few weeks when we play at tOSU!)

It was called against ASU last week against UCLA. P12 refs are just special.

 

[interrobang]

It was called against ASU last week against UCLA. P12 refs are just special.

Was it a penalty for moving the ball forward? Or just a false start penalty by the center?