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Wrestling: Penn State vs. Iowa Match Thread

Iowa wrestled well last night, I figured PSU would have at least split 141-165.

Yes JS, Nelson Brands held it to a decision just like many of us predicted. He has perfected the art of looking busy while doing absolutely nothing.

Crazy memento early on, I just got done explaining to my daughter and her boyfriend (first dual for both) how 125 would be ugly and our guy would not get out of the first period, then Vespa comes out and takes Spencer down and cradles him, lol.
But you were correct. It was ugly after that and he didn’t get out of the first period. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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We haven’t finished 2nd since 2015, in fact that is the only time in the last 12 years we finished second. We have finished 3rd or 4th more times than 2nd. So you could say we are used to it.

2022 3rd
2021 1st
2020 N/A
2019 4th
2018 3rd
2017 4th
2016 5th
2015 2nd
2014 4th
2013 4th
2012 3rd
2011 3rd
All the more reason for you to enjoy this year and the rare 2nd place finish.
 
So what was this (Warner post match per an observer): “Literally grabbed terry by his shoulders started shaking him and screaming in his face.. then got real emotional and Spencer & marinelli ushered him off the floor.”.

Sounds like Warner had about enough of mini Terry’s shit
Saw that too, was gonna post about it.
 
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Well said. While I'm sure both fanbases would have much preferred some higher scores all around, I really enjoyed the beauty of the battle in each individual match. I don't think the effort or desire should really be questioned for any of the 20 athletes last night
Agreed. Except for the part about enjoying the beauty of the battle during each match. I'm good after it's over, but I get too nervous during close bouts knowing the simplest of miscalculations, mistakes, or even flukes can flip the outcome at this level of wrestling. That's one of the reasons these PSU/Iowa duals are so stressful for me to watch in real time. Each side comes to battle, brings their hammers, and believes they can win.

As for fanbase preferences and predictions of bonus point wins/etc, I'm reminded of the quote attributed to Mike Tyson: “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” As enthusiastic fans, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that our guy's opponent has a say in how the battle unfolds.
 
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the gabe arnold talk reminds me of the story askren told about the psu recruit sitting behind him at the ohio state dual telling his friends all the things bo nickal was “doing wrong.” meanwhile bo was dominating myles martin. askren said he wanted to turn around and tell him he was an idiot. he later confirmed it was carter starocci.

high school kids are high school kids.
Carter may have been right. Bo did a few things that coaches would say to never do.

Of course, Carter may have said those things just to annoy Askren.
 
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LOL! Preaching to the choir. This board has threads dedicated to HR crazies. You might want to educate them as well. But thanks for the session

Therein lies the example. You justify yourself by pointing to others. I justify myself by holding myself to a standard regardless of how others act. My role is to not check the masses but felt the need as you continually beat your chest, ridiculed others and justified your behavior by negative behaviors of the minority of fans. I recognize every fanbase has those that I wish not to associate with however would never judge the fanbase based on those few.
 
Therein lies the example. You justify yourself by pointing to others. I justify myself by holding myself to a standard regardless of how others act. My role is to not check the masses but felt the need as you continually beat your chest, ridiculed others and justified your behavior by negative behaviors of the minority of fans. I recognize every fanbase has those that I wish not to associate with however would never judge the fanbase based on those few.
 
Still not sold on BB something is missing, Van Ness expected a lot more from him this year, Fauncdo why not take down don’t get it thanks Levi your the real deal
BB is not offense minded… never will be. Not sure why. Will still AA. SVN, Levi, and Facundo are tFr/rFR…. Still learning and still compete. Will AA in 2023 and compete for title next year.
 
I put this together a few years ago but thought it might be worth a re-print. I need to update it for Nick Lee - I’m confident he moved up the rankings when his entire career is considered - and do the math for the current squad. That said, mcpat is spot on - the current team, as good as it is, doesn’t score points like the wrestlers listed below.

I calculated the team points scored per match by a select group of past and current PSU wrestlers. For example, David Taylor had 53 pins (53 x 6), 42 TFs (42 x 5), 30 MDs (30 x 4), and 9 Ds (9 x 3). I then subtracted 6 points for his two losses by decision to Dake and 6 for his loss to Jenkins. That’s 663 total points, which I then divided by Taylor’s 137 career bouts. That comes to 4.84 points per match. For purposes of this exercise, I treated tournament wins and losses the same as dual wins and losses. That may be the wrong way to do it, but here’s the list:

Nolf 4.91 (60 pins, 27 TFs, 16 MDs, 14 Ds, 3 Ls)
Taylor 4.84 (53 pins, 42 TFs, 30 MDs, 9 Ds, 3 Ls)
Nickal 4.67 (59 pins, 12 TFs, 23 MDs, 26 Ds, 3 Ls)
Retherford 4.57 (53 pins, 22 TFs, 20 MDs, 31 Ds, 3 Ls)
Ruth 4.44 (46 pins, 25 TFs, 33 MDs, 32 Ds, 3 Ls)
Hall 4.11 (34 pins, 13 TFs, 15 MDs, 35 Ds, 5 Ls)
Joseph 3.60 (21 pins, 11 TFs, 16 MDs, 27 Ds, 8 Ls)
Cassar 3.48 (6 pins, 2 TFs, 20 MDs, 19 Ds, 3 Ls)
Lee 3.28 (14 pins, 14 TFs, 25 MDs, 16 Ds, 11 Ls)
Rasheed 3.27 (28 pins, 6 TFs, 16 MDs, 16 Ds, 15 Ls)

It’s entirely possible that a few of my calculations are slightly off. With that caveat and by this (admittedly incomplete) measure, Nolf camethisclose to averaging a TF over his 120 matches. (And that’s with a deduction of 6 points for his “loss” to Van Brill.) Amazing!
Great stats. Would love to see RBY, CStar, Brooks, Dean, and Kerk…
 
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Therein lies the example. You justify yourself by pointing to others. I justify myself by holding myself to a standard regardless of how others act. My role is to not check the masses but felt the need as you continually beat your chest, ridiculed others and justified your behavior by negative behaviors of the minority of fans. I recognize every fanbase has those that I wish not to associate with however would never judge the fanbase based on those few.
I don’t disagree with your general POV but don’t mind good natured ribbing. The banter from @jmadden1998 and our other regular Hawkeye guests in this thread is fairly tame by comparison to some of the crap flung their way over the past week by a few folks here.

Besides, when you’re an Iowa fan you’ve got to take whatever small quasi-victories you can get these days, bless their hearts.
 
Kerk was him self last night. He wasn’t vs. Paris. He’ll beat Paris this year. Let us still the top heavy.
i wouldn't go that far. parris was wrestling with a significant injury all last season. he had a notable downturn in his results against all past opponents, not just kerk. i still like kerk, but parris is gonna be a dog fight all year.
 
I’m inclined to agree with @js8793 here.

Cassioppi is more in line with a Cohlton Schultz type heavy. Can move when need be, but seems most at home handfighting and sticking to a more traditional heavy style.

By contrast, Kerk and Parris are what we starting to see more of in the weight class: athletic big men who can move well and wrestle more similar to a 197 than a full size heavy.

The contrast of styles can create some real power struggles as evidenced by the parody in the weight class (Steveson aside) this year and last
 
New T-shirt idea?
Front- PSU Wrestling
overrated……
He said what he said
Back- listed concert T-shirt style
Penn St Overrated Tour
2011 Philadelphia
2012 St Louis
2013 Des Moines
2014 Oklahoma City
2016 New York
2017 St Louis
2018 Cleveland
2019 Pittsburgh
2022 Detroit
2023 Tulsa
2024 Kansas City
 
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Just a take on a few things.

First. For those who think duals don't matter. You needed to ser Cael's response to Max Dean walking off the mat. Smiling, back slapping and yelling in Max's ear. Pure emotion from the man who rarely shows it.

Second. While I love making fun of Iowa's wrestling style, they wrestled their collective asses off last night and it was (at least for me) a fun match to watch. Yeah, there weren't many DT, Zain, Jason or Bo moments but I watched kids from both sides give not an inch and fight tooth and nail trying to win a singular dual meet match. The intensity in the building I thought was palpable.

The 125 PSU kid letting it fly.
Teske fighting to maintain his positioning and giving RBY nothing, right until RBY got him moving a hair out of position and BAM.
Woods shooting off the whistle, Beau damn near sticking him. Woods moving forward with the lead, not giving Beau room to attack.
Max, fighting SVN and being the one shooting when he had the riding time point for the lead.
Levi, just continuing to attack. Even after almost getting tossed, Levi just keeps on a coming. As someone pointed out, that needs to become his walkout tune.
Kennedy and Alex. Kennedy kept his hands out and low and then when they moved into tie-ups Kennedy woukd come in aggressively and with an undertook of his own. Successfully keeping Alex away from his legs and prefered ties. Alex wrestled a really hard fought match, Kennedy wrestled a slightly better match.
Carter. Yes I expected a handful of takedowns and a bonus, but when that wasn't going to be the result he buckled down and ground on Brands. Brands didn't just lay there getting ground up, he kept fighting to get out until he succeeded.
Aaron did what he should do in that situation except maybe once up by 12 or 13 work it for a fall.
Max and Warner, again two studs just freaking grinding on each other. At 39 seconds of riding time before Max did whatever he did to get both of them rolling backwards it could have easily been Warner accumulating riding time. Then when it was Max on top he did what he does, grind harder.
Greg was not giving an inch and wrestled his ass off to secure the win.

Fans who could not enjoy the simplicity of the straight up strategy of two great programs trying to outgrind the other. That is a shame, because it was a fun phucking match to watch!
We all get the strategy, but let’s be honest. It was a pretty dull match to watch in the big scheme of things
 
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We all get the strategy, but let’s be honest. It was a pretty dull match to watch in the big scheme of things
I spent most the night sitting forward in my seat fairly oblivious to all the peripheral stuff. At no time, while there was wrestling on the mat did I feel bored.

I get it would be cool to watch Bo and Sammy Brooks wrestle every match, but that ain't happening.

As I said, the simplicity of watching 2 groups of tremendously trained, conditioned and strong willed athletes just grind on each other at such a high level of intensity for me was a fun match.

There is no way you saw the beginning of 125 and the end of 133 coming. What a great way to start the match. Every match going forward except 184 had doubt, moments, groans and cheers. Even 174 had some doubt and moments.
 
My thoughts on the match.

125 - good effort not getting decked and coming out firing.

133 - great finish, lots of hand fighting to stall by Iowa just as in the 174 match. There is a difference when you hand fight to create angles and scoring opportunities and when you slap and hand fight just to circle and stall. It’s no different than riding the ankle which I also do not like.

141 - Beau is athletic as hell but still struggles from bottom against top tier competitors which to me points to his size being an issue. I like him at 133 next year and welcome all criticism against this. When I watched he and David Evans wrestle early this year and Evans gave him all he could handle, my gut tells me he’s still too small for the weight. Obviously he’s still a great wrestler. Credit to Woods who looked pretty good to me.

149 - Too much hand fighting from our guy and not creating enough scoring opportunities which is easier said than done. I thought Murin looked pretty good compared to some recent matches against tough opponents. Credit to him.

157 - Great match and great scrap. I loved both of these wrestlers effort. They are young and they both fought hard. Both are going to have good careers but Haines was clearly the better wrestler. His ability to shoot to the far leg is as good as anyone I’ve seen. High ceiling for this kid.

165 - These two will go back and forth for years to come. I think Facundo is the more technical wrestler. Facundo is improving by the week which I love. PK is strong as hell and holds great position. If he learns to ignore the Brands advice to “smother” and actually creates offense this kid is problems for everyone.

174 - Meh for both. My comments here won’t lend anything productive. Neither wrestlers antics are my thing.

184 - Love AB and wish everyone was more like him.

197 - Dean being Dean. Tough on top. Great ride and used the ankle ride the correct way… not stalling … used it to flatten and control Warner with constant attempts to create scoring opportunities. I think the ankle ride is going to become a problem and needs to be resolved. I’m not hard and fast on any one opinion. Just don’t really like it. Open to all points of view on it.

HWT - Kerk was clearly the better wrestler and it has showed the last two times these guys have met. Still love the matchup. Look forward to this weight class in March.

Iowa deserves it’s due for the way they showed up to wrestle. Penn State deserves it’s due for weathering a tough stretch by Iowa and getting the job done. Lots of fringe posters on both boards. Truth is these two teams are the clear 1/2 in the country and their talents were on display for many to see. I have several basketball friends who tuned in to watch and they absolutely loved it and said they can’t wait to go to a match in person. Great for our sport. We Are!
 
My thoughts on the match.

125 - good effort not getting decked and coming out firing.

133 - great finish, lots of hand fighting to stall by Iowa just as in the 174 match. There is a difference when you hand fight to create angles and scoring opportunities and when you slap and hand fight just to circle and stall. It’s no different than riding the ankle which I also do not like.

141 - Beau is athletic as hell but still struggles from bottom against top tier competitors which to me points to his size being an issue. I like him at 133 next year and welcome all criticism against this. When I watched he and David Evans wrestle early this year and Evans gave him all he could handle, my gut tells me he’s still too small for the weight. Obviously he’s still a great wrestler. Credit to Woods who looked pretty good to me.

149 - Too much hand fighting from our guy and not creating enough scoring opportunities which is easier said than done. I thought Murin looked pretty good compared to some recent matches against tough opponents. Credit to him.

157 - Great match and great scrap. I loved both of these wrestlers effort. They are young and they both fought hard. Both are going to have good careers but Haines was clearly the better wrestler. His ability to shoot to the far leg is as good as anyone I’ve seen. High ceiling for this kid.

165 - These two will go back and forth for years to come. I think Facundo is the more technical wrestler. Facundo is improving by the week which I love. PK is strong as hell and holds great position. If he learns to ignore the Brands advice to “smother” and actually creates offense this kid is problems for everyone.

174 - Meh for both. My comments here won’t lend anything productive. Neither wrestlers antics are my thing.

184 - Love AB and wish everyone was more like him.

197 - Dean being Dean. Tough on top. Great ride and used the ankle ride the correct way… not stalling … used it to flatten and control Warner with constant attempts to create scoring opportunities. I think the ankle ride is going to become a problem and needs to be resolved. I’m not hard and fast on any one opinion. Just don’t really like it. Open to all points of view on it.

HWT - Kerk was clearly the better wrestler and it has showed the last two times these guys have met. Still love the matchup. Look forward to this weight class in March.

Iowa deserves it’s due for the way they showed up to wrestle. Penn State deserves it’s due for weathering a tough stretch by Iowa and getting the job done. Lots of fringe posters on both boards. Truth is these two teams are the clear 1/2 in the country and their talents were on display for many to see. I have several basketball friends who tuned in to watch and they absolutely loved it and said they can’t wait to go to a match in person. Great for our sport. We Are!
OSU looked pretty good last night
 
Come on.

So you liked what you saw last night I take it?

He's proud of the way Little Punk Brands wrestled - being called for stalling and doing his little clown dance after being proven he is the little beatch loser he is..... all of it. He's just so proud of it.... [insert eyeroll].
 
He's proud of the way Little Punk Brands wrestled - being called for stalling and doing his little clown dance after being proven he is the little beatch loser he is..... all of it. He's just so proud of it.... [insert eyeroll].
he held his ground the whole match. never ran. starocci just doesn't have offense you think he does. you were a bit, dare i say....delusional.
 
Here are some photos of last night's dual.

I'll break this into four comments of five images apiece. 1/4

j4CsoO3.jpg

12tlGvI.jpg

CFteuLY.jpg

drO0Fjg.jpg

J7c5c5O.jpg
 
Yeah, that's what everybody thought last year. Turned out Michigan was the legitimate second best team.
Of course, who can ever forget Coach Ryan had his 2018 Buckeye team trained to peak at the right time and will forever be the "BEST" second place team.
Both were correct, Michigan was #2 and Iowa was and is a #2.
 
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The topic was Gabe Arnold’s tweet. Mcpat responded saying someone was bound to clap back at Starocci because he likes to talk. You disagreed because Carter is a 2 time champ so he can say whatever he wants. Mcpat said he’s fine with it but Carter should expect some chirping. It seems you are trying to convince him only you are right and he should agree with you. What does that have to do with what I saw last night?
Arnold's a bum
 
the common understanding of stalling is allowed by rule, yes. there was a big discussion about this on twitter including some D1 coaches.

Really, can you enlighten me as to why little beatch Brands was called for violating the stalling rule if what he was doing is "allowed by rule". This should be entertaining. LMAO
 
My biggest takeaway from last night’s match:

BJC needs more men’s restrooms. And I think they could put them where the unused women’s restrooms currently reside.
.....and the BJC lighting people need to get the sh*t together. How many times at the end of a match did they turn off the main lighting and then lose a few seconds while they try to find our winning wrestler with a spotlight, while everyone watching misses our guy's immediate reaction at the end of an exciting match? end rant/
 
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he held his ground the whole match. never ran. starocci just doesn't have offense you think he does. you were a bit, dare i say....delusional.

Is that why he was called for stalling? LMAO. Your little punk hero was called for as many stalls as points he scored... and that little beatch clown dance he did after losing was oh so impressive.
 
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