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WTF was Winovich (15) still in the game??

N&B4PSU

N&B4PSU

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Nov 30, 2009
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First, I was at an event today and "watched" the game on my phone. Fortunately, the recording didn't get messed and i watched it the last cpl hours on the big screen.

So I apologize if everyone on the list went apesheiss over the failure of the refs to send #15 to the locker room for targeting TM and i missed it in the threads.

Seriously, I've see so many targeting calls and even the most egregious leave you questioning if someone should be booted.

What 15 did was about as ez a buh-bye as i've seen since the targeting thing began... and NO ONE was talking about it on TV.

Winovich took 2 full steps before lowering his head and spearing TM in the lower back about 3 minutes (ok, that's an exaggeration) after the ball was thrown.

Rarely do I think a kid really needs ejection... this was an ez see-ya... and it wasn't even raised as an issue on TV. How does that happen?

OK, rant mode off... so much fun not only in punking this bunch of pricks (shhhhhhhhh...i'm sooooo cool) but in knowing it could easily have been much worse... and in knowing THEY know we're going to go into their house next year and beating them silly.... again. Buncha maizy-blue losers.

Michigan? Who?? L M F A O. Useless program from yesteryear. When were they ever last relevant? Anyone recall? I'm o/ld but it escapes me. [C'mon, no sanctions, every possible advantage... and THAT is the best they can do??? ROTFLMAO]

When they say, "we're michigan, they're penn state"... what they're saying is... we're all about a fight song that sounds remarkably like that of USC... which ALSO was shown the door. Please hum along so we can still pretend we matter..... LMFAO.

Michigan? The only way they could matter in the real world is if they could beat OSU. Hey, everyone stop laughing... Stop it, you bad meanies. They're Michigan men. Coach Jimbo will somehow find a way. Hahahahahahaa.

BTW, loved their kicker's haircut. whatta putz.
 
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N&B4PSU said:
First, I was at an event today and "watched" the game on my phone. Fortunately, the recording didn't get messed and i watched it the last cpl hours on the big screen.

So I apologize if everyone on the list went apesheiss over the failure of the refs to send #15 to the locker room for targeting TM and i missed it in the threads.

Seriously, I've see so many targeting calls and even the most egregious leave you questioning if someone should be booted.

What 15 did was about as ez a buh-bye as i've seen since the targeting thing began... and NO ONE was talking about it on TV.

Winovich took 2 full steps before lowering his head and spearing TM in the lower back about 3 minutes (ok, that's an exaggeration) after the ball was thrown.

Rarely do I think a kid really needs ejection... this was an ez see-ya... and it wasn't even raised as an issue on TV. How does that happen?

OK, rant mode off... so much fun not only in punking this bunch of pricks (shhhhhhhhh...i'm sooooo cool) but in knowing it could easily have been much worse... and in knowing THEY know we're going to go into their house next year and beating them silly.... again. Buncha maizy-blue losers.

Michigan? Who?? L M F A O. Useless program from yesteryear. When were they ever last relevant? Anyone recall? I'm o/ld but it escapes me. [C'mon, no sanctions, every possible advantage... and THAT is the best they can do??? ROTFLMAO]

When they say, "we're michigan, they're penn state"... what they're saying is... we're all about a fight song that sounds remarkably like that of USC... which ALSO was shown the door. Please hum along so we can still pretend we matter..... LMFAO.

Michigan? The only way they could matter in the real world is if they could beat OSU. Hey, everyone stop laughing... Stop it, you bad meanies. They're Michigan men. Coach Jimbo will somehow find a way. Hahahahahahaa.

BTW, loved their kicker's haircut. whatta putz.
Click to expand...
I didn’t get this, either. Targeting was the first thing I thought of when I saw the hit. But, no flag, no protesting by psu, and no mention of it by the announcers.
 
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PSU Soupy said:
For a late hit. The point...somewhat rambling....of the OP was that Winovich led with the crown of his helmet and speared TM in the back.
Click to expand...
yeah, no doubt about what happened.....not sure if that falls under the targeting provisions which cover blows to the opponents head?
 
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royboy said:
yeah, no doubt about what happened.....not sure if that falls under the targeting provisions which cover blows to the opponents head?
Click to expand...

I don't know if it's targeting by definition but if it isn't then they need to change the definition. A player who takes 2 steps after the QB releases the ball and drives the crown of his helmet into the defenseless QB's back is doing so with one intention...to injure. Frankly, the vast majority of plays that are called targeting are so bang bang I tend to give the defensive guy a break, because it's happening so quickly. The hit on Trace was intentional and dirty.
 
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Madsol said:
I don't know if it's targeting by definition but if it isn't then they need to change the definition. A player who takes 2 steps after the QB releases the ball and drives the crown of his helmet into the defenseless QB's back is doing so with one intention...to injure. Frankly, the vast majority of plays that are called targeting are so bang bang I tend to give the defensive guy a break, because it's happening so quickly. The hit on Trace was intentional and dirty.
Click to expand...
Agree.....compare that dirty play by Winovich to what got Brandon Smith ejected last year in Ann Arbor.
 
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ChiTownLion said:
Just like Cory "Frosted Tips" Giger, Chase Winovich is a....

View embedded media
Click to expand...


I saw a couple plays that made me think this pic should have been captioned "Chase Winovich is a Dirty Blonde."

After he happily ran his yap for anyone who shoved a microphone in his face this last week, I was glad to see that he was not much of a factor in this game. Same with "PSU never offered me either" Hurst, for that matter.
 
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royboy said:
Agree.....compare that dirty play by Winovich to what got Brandon Smith ejected last year in Ann Arbor.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Although the Smith one was so bizarre that it's almost hard to use that as a comparator. But you see targeting calls in almost every game where it's clear that the defender was simply going to make the tackle and the runner dropped his head at the very last second or started sliding after the defender had already committed to making the tackle or something like that. There was no intent to injure. IMHO, the UM player was intending to injure. I also thought their #7 just missed a really cheap shot on Trace as Trace was running out of bounds and #7 launched himself at Trace and just sort of had a glancing blow instead of a direct hit. This was later in the game, maybe on our final TD drive. Trace was either already out of bounds or very nearly out of bounds and had given himself up. I think Trace had some words for him because I think he knew the guy was being cheap.
 
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hasn't everyone come to expect those sort of plays when you play scUM? I certainly have. They have played with an intent to injure for years.
 
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I read the rule to mean leading with the crown of the helmet(anywhere) and then striking the so called "defenseless" player. Here's an interpretation below that seems to fit the scenario with the exception that Winovich's hit was late:

Targeting and Making Forcible Contact With
the Crown of the Helmet—ARTICLE 3

Approved Ruling 9-1-3
I. Passer A12 inside the tackle box is looking for an open receiver. Before or just as he releases the ball, A12 is hit from the side at the ribs, thigh or knee by B79, who dives forward and leads with the crown (top) of his helmet. This occurs in the (a) first half; (b) second half. RULING: Foul by B79 for targeting his opponent and initiating contact with the top of his helmet. 15 yards, first down. B79 is automatically disqualified (a) for the remainder of the game. (b) for the remainder of the game and the first half of the next game.
 
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"Dives forward and leads with crown..." is also referred to us "launching" and requires defensive player to leave feet to come under this rule related to other than head and shoulders spearing. I don't think Winovich "launched. It was a terribly, and intentionally, dirty play and he probably should have been ejected for unsportsman like conduct, but not for "targetting."
 
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I orignally thought it only applied to the head but then recalled a game i had watched earlier in the year when they discussed it was leading with the crown to any portion of a defenseless player. The hit by winovich was pretty much the textbook example of the targeting call.

I might be wrong, but the flag seemed to be thrown by the ref who could not see HOW trace was hit, just that he was hit late. Sooo....

If nothing else, it makes me wonder about the guys in the booth. They had to see it. Did they not know the rules? Or were they mich homers?
 
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I was running around most of the first half and missed this play. Just watched it.

Now I know why Ryan Bates stood right in his face with his arms raised after our last TD. Wish someone had gotten a picture because Bates got right in his face. Winovich speared Trace right in front of Ryan
 
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Michigan football wants to prove the doubters wrong at Penn State

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2017/10/michigan_football_wants_to_pro_1.html

ANN ARBOR -- Chase Winovich still carries the grudge for his brother.

A talented linebacker who went to play football at Bowling Green, Peter Winovich never got a serious look from Penn State during his recruiting. So when the Nittany Lions came poking around for young Chase, a four-star linebacker and one of the top at his position in the state of Pennsylvania, he says he never gave them the time of day.

"We have a picture in our basement, all of my siblings, with JoePa's glasses," Winovich told reporters earlier this week. "It's just funny. But yeah, they didn't offer my brother, so that was a personal thing for me.

"It's almost like the Winovichs weren't good enough."
 
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I'm not going to complain about the officials last night. We had one penalty. PSU didn't get targeting but did get the roughing the passer. I believe Michigan lost their starter Spreight sp. for the season on a highly questionable hit and I don't think they got a call on that either.
 
N&B4PSU said:
I orignally thought it only applied to the head but then recalled a game i had watched earlier in the year when they discussed it was leading with the crown to any portion of a defenseless player. The hit by winovich was pretty much the textbook example of the targeting call.

I might be wrong, but the flag seemed to be thrown by the ref who could not see HOW trace was hit, just that he was hit late. Sooo....

If nothing else, it makes me wonder about the guys in the booth. They had to see it. Did they not know the rules? Or were they mich homers?
Click to expand...

This is 100% spot on. That should have been reviewed absolutely and very easily an ejection could have happened. I thought the white-hot made a good call on the flag no way he could see the angle of attack that that happen. A targeting or unsportsmanlike should have come from the center judge. , the booth asleep at the wheel. But in their defense I think less than 1% of officials would have actually called that under the targeting definition. Just like a running back going down with somebody on top of them that late hit coming to the Head is supposed to be called and yet it rarely if ever is except on a quarterback
 
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marshall23 said:
I'm not going to complain about the officials last night. We had one penalty. PSU didn't get targeting but did get the roughing the passer. I believe Michigan lost their starter Spreight sp. for the season on a highly questionable hit and I don't think they got a call on that either.
Click to expand...

The one that most surprised me was the failure to challenge (or for the refs to simply have missed) Trace's inability to get the ball over the LOS while trying to avoid the sack. It seemed to be the textbook example of grounding, but...

here is where my knowledge of CFB rules gets murky. I thought there was a receiver within hailing distance of where the "throw" was headed. So... does this change the need for the ball to reach the LOS?

If not, it was clear as a bell and we didn't even hurry to run the next play. The booth guys got it and it seemed obvious even watching it normal speed on TV. How UM's booth guys would not have seen it (and again, how did the refs not?)... just odd.
 
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N&B4PSU said:
The one that most surprised me was the failure to challenge (or for the refs to simply have missed) Trace's inability to get the ball over the LOS while trying to avoid the sack. It seemed to be the textbook example of grounding, but...

here is where my knowledge of CFB rules gets murky. I thought there was a receiver within hailing distance of where the "throw" was headed. So... does this change the need for the ball to reach the LOS?

If not, it was clear as a bell and we didn't even hurry to run the next play. The booth guys got it and it seemed obvious even watching it normal speed on TV. How UM's booth guys would not have seen it (and again, how did the refs not?)... just odd.
Click to expand...
If there is a receiver in the area it does not have to cross the line of scrimmage....i didn't see a receiver but they didn't replay it many times
 
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N&B4PSU said:
First, I was at an event today and "watched" the game on my phone. Fortunately, the recording didn't get messed and i watched it the last cpl hours on the big screen.

So I apologize if everyone on the list went apesheiss over the failure of the refs to send #15 to the locker room for targeting TM and i missed it in the threads.

Seriously, I've see so many targeting calls and even the most egregious leave you questioning if someone should be booted.

What 15 did was about as ez a buh-bye as i've seen since the targeting thing began... and NO ONE was talking about it on TV.

Winovich took 2 full steps before lowering his head and spearing TM in the lower back about 3 minutes (ok, that's an exaggeration) after the ball was thrown.

Rarely do I think a kid really needs ejection... this was an ez see-ya... and it wasn't even raised as an issue on TV. How does that happen?

OK, rant mode off... so much fun not only in punking this bunch of pricks (shhhhhhhhh...i'm sooooo cool) but in knowing it could easily have been much worse... and in knowing THEY know we're going to go into their house next year and beating them silly.... again. Buncha maizy-blue losers.

Michigan? Who?? L M F A O. Useless program from yesteryear. When were they ever last relevant? Anyone recall? I'm o/ld but it escapes me. [C'mon, no sanctions, every possible advantage... and THAT is the best they can do??? ROTFLMAO]

When they say, "we're michigan, they're penn state"... what they're saying is... we're all about a fight song that sounds remarkably like that of USC... which ALSO was shown the door. Please hum along so we can still pretend we matter..... LMFAO.

Michigan? The only way they could matter in the real world is if they could beat OSU. Hey, everyone stop laughing... Stop it, you bad meanies. They're Michigan men. Coach Jimbo will somehow find a way. Hahahahahahaa.

BTW, loved their kicker's haircut. whatta putz.
Click to expand...

Punk-ass cry-baby loser -- Only way he could make an impact in the game was a dirty, late-hit cheap-shot.

Loser.
 
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PSUQBKeeper said:
If there is a receiver in the area it does not have to cross the line of scrimmage....i didn't see a receiver but they didn't replay it many times
Click to expand...

Barkley was on a shallow crossing route into the "area" where the ball was thrown. I used quotes because it probably pushed the boundaries of what's considered "in the area" -- But there was at least someone (almost) there.
 
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royboy said:
Michigan football wants to prove the doubters wrong at Penn State

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2017/10/michigan_football_wants_to_pro_1.html

ANN ARBOR -- Chase Winovich still carries the grudge for his brother.

A talented linebacker who went to play football at Bowling Green, Peter Winovich never got a serious look from Penn State during his recruiting. So when the Nittany Lions came poking around for young Chase, a four-star linebacker and one of the top at his position in the state of Pennsylvania, he says he never gave them the time of day.

"We have a picture in our basement, all of my siblings, with JoePa's glasses," Winovich told reporters earlier this week. "It's just funny. But yeah, they didn't offer my brother, so that was a personal thing for me.

"It's almost like the Winovichs weren't good enough."
Click to expand...

Hey Chase, if your brother went to Bowling Green, it meant that no one thought he was "good enough" to play P5 football. Your grudge is as stupid as your coach's recruiting tactics. Enjoy another 3rd place(maybe) finish in the East.
 
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marshall23 said:
I'm not going to complain about the officials last night. We had one penalty. PSU didn't get targeting but did get the roughing the passer. I believe Michigan lost their starter Spreight sp. for the season on a highly questionable hit and I don't think they got a call on that either.
Click to expand...
Speaking of Speight - wonder if he was laughing at Don Brown after the 8th time Barkley burned an LB assigned to him by Don Einstein or the 8th time we burned their corners on a slant
 
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You have to remember the backstory here. Winovich went to Thomas Jefferson. His coach is an ex-Pitt player who played during the Paterno era, who doesn't send any of his kids to PSU, if he can ever help it. TJ is very very very Nittany unfriendly, to say the least. I'm quite sure he was being fed this stuff from the first time he stepped on the field at TJ. Now he is embodying it, and his baseline personality just magnifies it.

I know nothing about his brother, but historically I can't imagine our guys spend that much time at TJ, since they're really not welcome there.

This is a very big piece of the Winovich story.
 
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