ADVERTISEMENT

Yeah, I'll go there, way too early Hodge talk, but...

GogglesPaizano

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
5,581
9,533
1
Sure I have PSU Goggles on, it's my namesake, but until someone takes a loss we have 5 guys (incl Kerk) currently worthy of discussion regarding the Hodge. Yeah, way too early but any one of the 5 could go undefeated. All are on an upward trajectory in terms of maturing, and increasing their bonus rate.

By the end of the season there is usually only a handful of undefeated national champs. Spencer's pitch count might just hurt his chances, Yanni is already gone, that leaves our 5 against the a pretty narrow field already. It is highly likely we finish with 2 guys undefeated, and 3 or 4 isn't completely outrageous either.

I would be willing to bet knowing what we know today, and considering a component is career achievement, the Hodge comes down to:

125 - Spencer
133 - RBY or Dayton
141 - None
149 - None
157 - Unlikely (Robb)
165 - O'Toole, Griffith, Carr
174 - Carter, Lewis
185 - Brooks
197 - Dean, Warner (Unlikely)
HWT - Kerk, Paris, Schultz (all unlikely)

We have 5 of the 15, and some of those are real stretches, with only Kerk a stretch due to career achievement) but to be fair, those few should not yet be excluded.

I like our chances, a lot.

 
I think you probably still have to list Yianni as in the conversation—he’d have to go on a bonus heater though, and others would have to take an L.

I‘ll play prognosticator though, and say AB separates himself from the pack, but a 12-0 Spencer still wins it because reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Reslo
I think you probably still have to list Yianni as in the conversation—he’d have to go on a bonus heater though, and others would have to take an L.

I‘ll play prognosticator though, and say AB separates himself from the pack, but a 12-0 Spencer still wins it because reasons.
I think you're probably right. I don't see a reality or universe where Spencer doesn't get the Hodge this year if he goes undefeated and wins his 4th national title, regardless of the number of matches he wrestles.
 
  • Like
Reactions: backdrft76
I think you're probably right. I don't see a reality or universe where Spencer doesn't get the Hodge this year if he goes undefeated and wins his 4th national title, regardless of the number of matches he wrestles.
Spencer could end up in a "tie" again with the real winner.
giphy.gif
 
Three thoughts:

1) How good is Brooks that Dean has to wrestle 197?

2) Lewis is a hell of a wrestler. VJ would attest. How good is CStar to beat him twice now?

3) An undefeated RBY will be at a 60ish match win streak with yet another win over Fix and three titles. He’s your Hodge winner this year.
 
Three thoughts:

1) How good is Brooks that Dean has to wrestle 197?

2) Lewis is a hell of a wrestler. VJ would attest. How good is CStar to beat him twice now?

3) An undefeated RBY will be at a 60ish match win streak with yet another win over Fix and three titles. He’s your Hodge winner this year.
By your “has” Im guessing you think Dean is wrestling up (or at least was last year)
Anyway if so, wouldnt that have made what DEAN did (does) equally or even more impressive than Aaron wrestling his ideal weight?

If Dean runs the table and the rumors of wrestling up are verified to be true, then he gets my vote.

Remember this award was founded on pinning and dominance. No one is dominating and down right breaking guys like Dean is right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpat
By your “has” Im guessing you think Dean is wrestling up (or at least was last year)
Anyway if so, wouldnt that have made what DEAN did (does) equally or even more impressive than Aaron wrestling his ideal weight?

If Dean runs the table and the rumors of wrestling up are verified to be true, then he gets my vote.

Remember this award was founded on pinning and dominance. No one is dominating and down right breaking guys like Dean is right now.
I’m guessing you wrestled upper weights while I wrestled 134-142. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: hlstone
Brooks is starting to have that look to him. He's gonna have to start pinning guys though.
 
Three thoughts:

1) How good is Brooks that Dean has to wrestle 197?

2) Lewis is a hell of a wrestler. VJ would attest. How good is CStar to beat him twice now?

3) An undefeated RBY will be at a 60ish match win streak with yet another win over Fix and three titles. He’s your Hodge winner this year.

Not to put too fine of a point on it but, how good a wrestler is Brooks if he can beat the guy who NC'd 197?
 
Three thoughts:

1) How good is Brooks that Dean has to wrestle 197?

2) Lewis is a hell of a wrestler. VJ would attest. How good is CStar to beat him twice now?

3) An undefeated RBY will be at a 60ish match win streak with yet another win over Fix and three titles. He’s your Hodge winner this year.

1)
giphy.gif

2)
dwayne-johnson-dwayne-douglas-johnson.gif

A Cenzo-Lewis rematch would've went a different way.
3)
the-daily-show-jon-stewart.gif

Spencer goes 10-0 and wins the title, it's his.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: diggerpup
Updated Hodge discussion:
Criteria for Hodge Trophy:
1. Record
2. # of pins
3. Dominance
4. Past Credentials
5. Quality of Competition
6. Sportsmanship/Citizenship
7. Heart

From Goggles’ original list, Brooks, Warner, Dean, Schultz and Lewis have all lost. Because past credentials is a criterion, even though it’s only #4 on the list, I’m eliminating anyone without a prior national title. That means no Robb, Fix, Parris or Kerk. I’m gonna say only one of the 165s will wind up undefeated as they’re likely to knock each other off. For that reason, this candidate I’ll just call 165 Champ.

This leaves us with 4 candidates: Lee, RBY, 165 Champ and Starocci. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume Lee will have the fewest # of wins given his limited schedule. Let’s just say the 4 candidates go undefeated, because any loss eliminates them. So, given this, I’ll review the criteria.

1. Record: RBY, 165 and Starocci would be essentially tied. Lee would be way behind given far fewer matches.

2. # of pins: Hard to say here, though, again Lee is likely to trail simply by having fewer matches.

3. Dominance: I’d say Lee probably has slight lead followed by RBY, 165, and Starocci trailing the others.

4. Past credentials: This goes: Lee, RBY & Starocci, with 165 last.

5. Quality of Competition: I’d say this would rank 165, RBY slightly ahead of Starocci and Lee way behind as 125 is a barren wasteland.

6. Sportsmanship/Citizenship- Seems way too subjective to do a ranking here.

7. Heart- also way too subjective to assess. These would ALL be repeat champions with tremendous heart.

So, given the criteria above, the rankings would be as follows:

1. RBY
2. 165 Champ
3. Lee
4. Starocci

Fair assessment? Thoughts?
 
I’ve been saying for awhile that RBY should win it this year, but he’ll have to wrestle close to a full slate of matches and rack up some falls to do it.

You know Lee is going fall and tech fall his way through the post-season. RBY can’t win the Hodge over Lee having wrestled only single-digit more matches and a season of major decisions. A 4th title would beat such a resume.
 
I’ve been saying for awhile that RBY should win it this year, but he’ll have to wrestle close to a full slate of matches and rack up some falls to do it.

You know Lee is going fall and tech fall his way through the post-season. RBY can’t win the Hodge over Lee having wrestled only single-digit more matches and a season of major decisions. A 4th title would beat such a resume.
See assessment above. Given his light schedule, Lee likely to trail everyone else in pins. He does right now.
 
See assessment above. Given his light schedule, Lee likely to trail everyone else in pins. He does right now.
Right… but Lee’s 5 falls and 3 tech falls through the Big Ten and NCAA tourneys along with a 4th title is going to take a significant resume from folks not named Spencer to win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cali_Nittany
See assessment above. Given his light schedule, Lee likely to trail everyone else in pins. He does right now.
It still comes down to a vote. The criteria simply explains how voters are supposed to make that decision...doesn't mean it actually happens that way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mcpat
It still comes down to a vote. The criteria simply explains how voters are supposed to make that decision...doesn't mean it actually happens that way.
I can only use the criteria provided. If others choose not to do so, I can’t control that.
 
Updated Hodge discussion:
Criteria for Hodge Trophy:
1. Record
2. # of pins
3. Dominance
4. Past Credentials
5. Quality of Competition
6. Sportsmanship/Citizenship
7. Heart

From Goggles’ original list, Brooks, Warner, Dean, Schultz and Lewis have all lost. Because past credentials is a criterion, even though it’s only #4 on the list, I’m eliminating anyone without a prior national title. That means no Robb, Fix, Parris or Kerk. I’m gonna say only one of the 165s will wind up undefeated as they’re likely to knock each other off. For that reason, this candidate I’ll just call 165 Champ.

This leaves us with 4 candidates: Lee, RBY, 165 Champ and Starocci. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume Lee will have the fewest # of wins given his limited schedule. Let’s just say the 4 candidates go undefeated, because any loss eliminates them. So, given this, I’ll review the criteria.

1. Record: RBY, 165 and Starocci would be essentially tied. Lee would be way behind given far fewer matches.

2. # of pins: Hard to say here, though, again Lee is likely to trail simply by having fewer matches.

3. Dominance: I’d say Lee probably has slight lead followed by RBY, 165, and Starocci trailing the others.

4. Past credentials: This goes: Lee, RBY & Starocci, with 165 last.

5. Quality of Competition: I’d say this would rank 165, RBY slightly ahead of Starocci and Lee way behind as 125 is a barren wasteland.

6. Sportsmanship/Citizenship- Seems way too subjective to do a ranking here.

7. Heart- also way too subjective to assess. These would ALL be repeat champions with tremendous heart.

So, given the criteria above, the rankings would be as follows:

1. RBY
2. 165 Champ
3. Lee
4. Starocci

Fair assessment? Thoughts?
Excellent analysis Chris.

A few additional comments.

5. Quality of competition. If any of the 165 former champs beats the other 2, that separates them a bit. Also, if Glory moves to 133, and RBY beats 2 of Fixx, Vito, Glory, that bumps his quality of competition up as well.

7. Heart - I can see Lee winning this category after coming back from injury.
 
Glory wrestled at 125 after the rumors of him going to 133 started, so that is unlikely to happen.
 
Updated Hodge discussion:
Criteria for Hodge Trophy:
1. Record
2. # of pins
3. Dominance
4. Past Credentials
5. Quality of Competition
6. Sportsmanship/Citizenship
7. Heart

From Goggles’ original list, Brooks, Warner, Dean, Schultz and Lewis have all lost. Because past credentials is a criterion, even though it’s only #4 on the list, I’m eliminating anyone without a prior national title. That means no Robb, Fix, Parris or Kerk. I’m gonna say only one of the 165s will wind up undefeated as they’re likely to knock each other off. For that reason, this candidate I’ll just call 165 Champ.

This leaves us with 4 candidates: Lee, RBY, 165 Champ and Starocci. For the sake of discussion, let’s assume Lee will have the fewest # of wins given his limited schedule. Let’s just say the 4 candidates go undefeated, because any loss eliminates them. So, given this, I’ll review the criteria.

1. Record: RBY, 165 and Starocci would be essentially tied. Lee would be way behind given far fewer matches.

2. # of pins: Hard to say here, though, again Lee is likely to trail simply by having fewer matches.

3. Dominance: I’d say Lee probably has slight lead followed by RBY, 165, and Starocci trailing the others.

4. Past credentials: This goes: Lee, RBY & Starocci, with 165 last.

5. Quality of Competition: I’d say this would rank 165, RBY slightly ahead of Starocci and Lee way behind as 125 is a barren wasteland.

6. Sportsmanship/Citizenship- Seems way too subjective to do a ranking here.

7. Heart- also way too subjective to assess. These would ALL be repeat champions with tremendous heart.

So, given the criteria above, the rankings would be as follows:

1. RBY
2. 165 Champ
3. Lee
4. Starocci

Fair assessment? Thoughts?
All of this is true.

Also: the Hodge criteria are not weighted in any way. So the votes are a conplete free-for-all. (See also: Zain beating Dieringer in every category except Past Credentials.)

RBY should win -- and I think he will. But he'll have to share it if St. Spencer is a 4x champ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cali_Nittany
Excellent analysis Chris.

A few additional comments.

5. Quality of competition. If any of the 165 former champs beats the other 2, that separates them a bit. Also, if Glory moves to 133, and RBY beats 2 of Fixx, Vito, Glory, that bumps his quality of competition up as well.

7. Heart - I can see Lee winning this category after coming back from injury.
I can see Lee announcing his retirement from college wrestling in 2 months.
 
Spencer can't get to 4. He can only get to 3.5. But, he can lay claim to being the only 2.5 and 3.5 time Hodge winner in the entire history of wrestling.
 
125 - Spencer
133 - RBY or Dayton
141 - None
149 - None
157 - Unlikely (Robb)
165 - O'Toole, Griffith, Carr
174 - Carter, Lewis
185 - Brooks
197 - Dean, Warner (Unlikely)
HWT - Kerk, Paris, Schultz (all unlikely)
125 - Spencer
133 - RBY or Dayton
141 -
149 - Yani
157 -
165 - O'Toole, Carr
174 - Carter
185 -
197 -
HWT - Kerk

New List. Can’t see anyone else likely winning unless someone starts a pin chain streak!
 
125 - Spencer
133 - RBY or Dayton
141 -
149 - Yani
157 -
165 - O'Toole, Carr
174 - Carter
185 -
197 -
HWT - Kerk

New List. Can’t see anyone else likely winning unless someone starts a pin chain streak!
Yianni lost already and that usually knocks you out of the running unless everyone has lost.

So for the time being, even Beau is on the list. :)
 
Glory wrestled at 125 after the rumors of him going to 133 started, so that is unlikely to happen.
I enjoy watching Spencer and he will go down as a generational talent and potentially cement himself on the Mt Rushmore of college wrestling, but if you are Glory and you watched Spencer gas and get taken down by a backup how could you not go 125 instead of taking on a 3 headed monster in rby fix and Vito
 
When speaking of 133 pound elites 2 time champion RBY makes sense as does 3 time runner-up Fix. The odd man out is the guy without the folkstyle credentials everybody wants to cram in there with RBY and Fix. To put it into perspective one time finalist and runner-up Sammy Sosa is a more accomplished folkstyle grappler than Cornell's Arujau and nobody ever considers putting Sammy in the same grouping as RBY and Fix.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Skoal117
When speaking of 133 pound elites 2 time champion RBY makes sense as does 3 time runner-up Fix. The odd man out is the guy without the folkstyle credentials everybody wants to cram in there with RBY and Fix. To put it into perspective one time finalist and runner-up Sammy Sosa is a more accomplished folkstyle grappler than Cornell's Arujau and nobody ever considers putting Sammy in the same grouping as RBY and Fix.
Are you suggesting Sammy Sosa is going to be wrestling 133 ?
 
You do know that there is actually a legit “most dominant” award that is actually based on STATS, not popularity or some drunkin algorithm, right?
Hodge award lost my respect a few years ago.
 
ADVERTISEMENT