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- Thread starter Nittany Ned2
- Start date
Clipping the ground off the expander in my opinion can not be up to code, and is not a safe situation.
I don't know what the current code is, and it may be be particular to the township/town location. But if there is actually 3 conductor wiring, i.e. the wiring includes a ground that is grounded in the breaker panel, you could upgrade the outlets there for less than $50 in materials. Just grounded outlets really, obviously connecting the ground wires to the outlet ground connections.
Just to update a couple outlets, if there is a ground wire there but not connected to the 2 prong outlet, for the outlets in areas of use would be my priority. Especially those that are in areas where the "expander" is necessary.....
Another less desirable option would be to attache the ground wires to the electrical boxes.
I don't know what the current code is, and it may be be particular to the township/town location. But if there is actually 3 conductor wiring, i.e. the wiring includes a ground that is grounded in the breaker panel, you could upgrade the outlets there for less than $50 in materials. Just grounded outlets really, obviously connecting the ground wires to the outlet ground connections.
Just to update a couple outlets, if there is a ground wire there but not connected to the 2 prong outlet, for the outlets in areas of use would be my priority. Especially those that are in areas where the "expander" is necessary.....
Another less desirable option would be to attache the ground wires to the electrical boxes.
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Of course not. current code requires three prong grounded everywhere, plus polarized plugs, plus GFCIs in bath and kitchen. Current code in most places even specifies that all the breakers in the breaker box be the same brand of breaker.
I doubt anything requires the landlord to upgrade to current code.
However putting a 3 prong adapter into an ungrounded 2 prong is not safe and I bet it violates fire codes for rental property in State College. Probably not a big deal if it's just for charging laptops but not for an appliance or lighting.
I doubt anything requires the landlord to upgrade to current code.
However putting a 3 prong adapter into an ungrounded 2 prong is not safe and I bet it violates fire codes for rental property in State College. Probably not a big deal if it's just for charging laptops but not for an appliance or lighting.
The bathroom and kitchen outlets would be of particular concern to me. Have you met the landlord, and does he or she seem somewhat reasonable? If so, my first step would be to contact the landlord, explain the situation (there's at least a chance he or she does not know about this), your concern about the safety implications for your daughter and her roommate(s), and request that the landlord get it fixed.
If that does not work and you want your daughter to stay there, I would seek some legal advice on whether Pennsylvania law has a "retaliatory eviction" statute. If Pennsylvania does have such a statute, I would either threaten to report the code violations to the local authorities, or in fact report them.
If that does not work and you want your daughter to stay there, I would seek some legal advice on whether Pennsylvania law has a "retaliatory eviction" statute. If Pennsylvania does have such a statute, I would either threaten to report the code violations to the local authorities, or in fact report them.
The GFCIs in bathroom and kitchen would be highest priority for me. You got kids standing on wet floors running hair dryers. But grounded outlets and make sure the breakers are the right gauge and working properly. Kids do stupid things like run refrigerators and heaters off the same outlet, so you definitely want the breaker to go off before the wiring overhearts.
Now here's the rub -- in order to install GFCIs properly you have to have grounded wiring, and often grounding wiring means rewiring sections of the house. It isn't cheap. I hope the landlord follows up but my suspicion he is telling you what you want to hear and will drag his feet because these things may be serious money.
Now here's the rub -- in order to install GFCIs properly you have to have grounded wiring, and often grounding wiring means rewiring sections of the house. It isn't cheap. I hope the landlord follows up but my suspicion he is telling you what you want to hear and will drag his feet because these things may be serious money.
Oh boy. That does not sound good. I would seriously doubt that the wire in the house can support 20A, and if not, having 20A breakers on 14ga wire (most likely) is much more dangerous than using that three prong adapter with the ground wire clipped off.
You know what's REALLY serious money? Having a tenant get killed or seriously injured due to electrical wiring that is not in compliance with code requirements. PI lawyers love to get cases like that. I'm not one of them; I'm just sayin'...
Totally agree. But if the box was in deed upgraded the electrician that did the work as well as the inspection of that work by the local municipality should have confirmed the 14ga/15amp breaker and 12ga/20amp breaker combinations..... Easy to check - just take the cover off the breaker box.....
Shocking that the landlord responded so positively, not many landlords are wired that way!
(Hopefully his attitude / responsiveness will continue during your daughter's stay there!)
(Hopefully his attitude / responsiveness will continue during your daughter's stay there!)
Agree, and hopefully you see the old wire connected to the breaker box. Because if you see new wire at the beaker box, but (very) old two-prong outlets throughout the house, you've gotta wonder what that wire is behind the walls.
Yeah, to me that's a concern too. lol
Under the assumption that the wire at the outlets is un-grounded (because otherwise, when the wire was upgraded to grounded, why wouldn't have the outlets been upgraded as well?), is the owner just going to install three prong outlets, leaving the ground not connected? That would be my concern.
Yep, but my guess is that the outlets were not disturbed during the upgrade of the breaker panel. Anyone that would have taken the time to open up the outlets would surely have changed the outlets to 3-prong grounded outlets given how inexpensive basic outlets are.
But back to the minimum to safety proceed. The landlord, or Ned, should make sure that the outlet(s) that are to be used for the air conditioners have properly sized wiring and breakers, and have grounded outlets. i.e. if the wiring is 14 gauge the breaker should be 15 amp. 12 gauge with 20 amp breakers. Wiring with ground wires properly terminated. Obviously the AC units are most likely to pull current close to the limits of the beakers. Most upgrades focus on the bathroom outlets as well in order to cover curling irons and hair dryers. Hard to overload circuits with iphone chargers or 45 watt computer power transformers......
GFI's in Kitchen and bathroom esp bathroom I an see being a big concern. Aside from AC and admit not up on electric heaters, unless they are running power tools how many household items even have 3 prong plugs any more? I'd be more worried about the 20 amp on 14 wire but unless they are old behemoth window AC they don't draw that much any more. I have to wonder about the early post that '' some codes even require all breakers be the same brand? I only use Square D but didn't know you could mix breaker brands in the same box? Don't think that is really possible they are all different designs.
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Sorry it was a hasty general reply to the thread . I am in total agreement on the 20 amp breakers vs 15 breakers.In new there is no reason to even use 14 gauge in my opinion , you lose more $$ over time than the cost to install which is minimal. I do quite a bit of electrical work, mostly in conduit . Some one at the beginning said the code about some requiring to use all the same BRAND of breakers I have used GFCI breakers and outlets . I was saying SQ D goes in SQ D GE only goes in GE etc. Upgrades in remodel with wires sometimes and in this situation , I was basically in agreement with you
To agoodnap's post. I had this situation when I bought an old home in Clinton county. The acceptable code fix was to install GFCI circuit breakers then replace the two prong duplexes with three prong duplexes. The cover plate for each duplex must them be clearly annotaded with the following statement ... "Protected by GFCI - No Ground". I made labels to this affect with a label maker and stuck them to all of my outlets.
Thanks, I didn't know that and don't remember that from class. I'll have to check my code books and perhaps get a new set with the latest updates. My books are probably 25 years old. I've got a house I'm about to renovate and at least half the runs are 2-wire. I believe you may have saved me a bunch of time and money!
I would still jumper the ground terminal to return as well as all metal junction boxes.
