2 Quick Questions for Freestyle experts

[aalion]

1) When or why do they start wrestlers in par terre?

2) If being grounded avoids the push out point, what stops a wrestler from grounding themselves every time the ly get close to the edge? Is the “offensive” wrestler somehow preventing it (I.e w a really strong underhook or something)? Are there wrestling situations that make the rule different?

Thanks,

 

[Franklinstheman]

1) When or why do they start wrestlers in par terre?

2) If being grounded avoids the push out point, what stops a wrestler from grounding themselves every time the ly get close to the edge? Is the “offensive” wrestler somehow preventing it (I.e w a really strong underhook or something)? Are there wrestling situations that make the rule different?

Thanks,

Great questions. I would like to know also. I'm surprised there are no experts on this board. Lol. Hopefully someone responds. All my life folk style was drilled in my head. Although I read some freestyle scoring rules, I'm still confused over some of it.

 

[OzarkLion]

I'll take a stab and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure they will!)

1. Generally when a "fleeing the mat" type situation occurs where one wrestler completely disengages to avoid being taken down.

2. These guys are REALLY good. If you watch enough, you'll see guys trying to ground themselves, only to get jacked up and pushed out/taken down. Your underhook example illustrates this well.

 

[Ambrowns]

I'll take a stab and anyone can correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure they will!)

1. Generally when a "fleeing the mat" type situation occurs where one wrestler completely disengages to avoid being taken down.

2. These guys are REALLY good. If you watch enough, you'll see guys trying to ground themselves, only to get jacked up and pushed out/taken down. Your underhook example illustrates this well.

For #2, there has to be a legitimate reason to be grounded for that to be called. You can’t just drop to your knees. It would still be called as a point for a step out or possibly even a caution and 1 for fleeing the hold/negative wrestling.

I don’t think the “grounded” rule is perfect, but I understand the reason for it. I think improvements can be made to lessen the gaming of the rule a bit more.

A large portion of freestyle rules are set up to encourage the wrestlers to engage each other and attempt big moves. That’s why there are some rules that don’t seem to make sense to folkstyle fans (push out, slipped throw, correct throw, passivity, etc). It takes a bit to get used to those differences and the reasons for them.

 

[baccafarmer]

1) When or why do they start wrestlers in par terre?

2) If being grounded avoids the push out point, what stops a wrestler from grounding themselves every time the ly get close to the edge? Is the “offensive” wrestler somehow preventing it (I.e w a really strong underhook or something)? Are there wrestling situations that make the rule different?

Thanks,

I just watch the mat action, but, my wife noticed that the mat judge somehow instructs the referee on what to do (stop action, passivity warning, etc). So the refs wear ear buds of something to receive instructions?

 

[Ambrowns]

I just watch the mat action, but, my wife noticed that the mat judge somehow instructs the referee on what to do (stop action, passivity warning, etc). So the refs wear ear buds of something to receive instructions?

They don’t wear earbuds or anything like that. But they do continuously watch for the mat judge and table to see if they indicate points, cautions, or white paddles (indicating no points scored). They work as a trio of officials to determine scoring and other actions. Two must agree before scoring is confirmed.

 

[aalion]

Thanks for responding

 

[Delcolion915]

I'll try to answer this:

1. I have no idea because freestyle rules are confusing as hell

2. See number 1

 

[OzarkLion]

I had an older gentleman sitting behind me during session 3. He'd ask me questions about the scoring and most of the time I had an answer for him. Except when I was 100% sure of a scoring sequence only to find out they scored it completely differently!

 

[Nitlion1986]

I had an older gentleman sitting behind me during session 3. He'd ask me questions about the scoring and most of the time I had an answer for him. Except when I was 100% sure of a scoring sequence only to find out they scored it completely differently!

Ah man. It was hilarious. Every time I thought I had it figured out the review group would say exactly the opposite.

 

[PAgeologist]

I got another question. Are they required to use black colored tape? Pretty much every other sports event I have watched used white.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Miss me yet?

Signed,

Angel Rivera

 

[baccafarmer]

They don’t wear earbuds or anything like that. But they do continuously watch for the mat judge and table to see if they indicate points, cautions, or white paddles (indicating no points scored). They work as a trio of officials to determine scoring and other actions. Two must agree before scoring is confirmed.

Ambrowns: Thanks much! . That’s gotta be tough for a ref to watch the wrestlers and simultaneously watch the mat judge. Seems to work. Decisions were almost universally quick. The only bad calls were ones that we freestyle fans could not understand. Ha!

 

[82bordeaux]

Jason Nolf is an expert at dropping to his knees to be grounded. There were at least 5 or 6 times over a couple matches that i thought he'd get dinged. But it worked.

 

[nerfstate]

Jason Nolf is an expert at dropping to his knees to be grounded. There were at least 5 or 6 times over a couple matches that i thought he'd get dinged. But it worked.

Yeah, I'm not sure why he didn't get cautioned for that--seems USA refs in particular were doing that pretty aggressively this year (which I agree with in principle), but if ti worked, it worked. Jason also seemed to have figured out a position with his feet on the mat that stifled JB's attempts to force him out too.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

I'm uncertain of the out of bounds rules vs continuation.

 

[nerfstate]

I'm uncertain of the out of bounds rules vs continuation.

There's a gray area (isn't there always?), but generally continuation is permitted if the officials determine that a scoring action started before anyone went out of bounds. USAW's rulebook says:

If a wrestler starts an action while in the wrestling area, that action will be allowed to continue and scored appropriately if it goes out-of-bounds, regardless of which athlete touches the protection area first. However, counteractions cannot be scored out-of-bounds. For example, if Red starts a head and arm throw in-bounds causing Blue to go to his or her back out-of-bounds, and then Blue initiates a roll through, only the head and arm throw should score. The roll through is not valid since Blue went out-of-bounds prior to starting the roll through.

 

[Bob_Anderson]

There's a gray area (isn't there always?), but generally continuation is permitted if the officials determine that a scoring action started before anyone went out of bounds. USAW's rulebook says:

The confusing part is that the wrestlers often ended up slamming directly onto the area between mats with no padding. If you allow scoring sequences to continue OOB, there should be sufficient protection for these guys.

 

[ad1986]

Freestyle is meant to be fast paced, Freestyle has parterre starts but they're very rare.
If you get called for being passive you can be put into parterre. wrestlers can choose to put their opponents in “per terre” position after each passive call. It is also used to break ties.

I am not sure if this rule is still current. The official can call for a Par Terre in freestyle (only happens after cheating situations.)

 

[nerfstate]

The confusing part is that the wrestlers often ended up slamming directly onto the area between mats with no padding. If you allow scoring sequences to continue OOB, there should be sufficient protection for these guys.

Yeah, they don't have much to say about that in the rules, that I know of. Did you see Dom Bradley vs Hendrickson? He chucked Wyatt right off the platform....

Coincidentally, this is one of the reasons I don't think we'll see a step-out in folkstyle any time soon. I feel like if you add a step out, continuation comes along for the ride--but the risk of injury is high--especially w/ the larger mats in smaller gyms.

 

[86PSUPaul]

Yeah, they don't have much to say about that in the rules, that I know of. Did you see Dom Bradley vs Hendrickson? He chucked Wyatt right off the platform....

Coincidentally, this is one of the reasons I don't think we'll see a step-out in folkstyle any time soon. I feel like if you add a step out, continuation comes along for the ride--but the risk of injury is high--especially w/ the larger mats in smaller gyms.

I looked down for a second and missed it but was told he bounced off the end of the platform, into the wall, then on the ground!

 

[OzarkLion]

Did you see Dom Bradley vs Hendrickson? He chucked Wyatt right off the platform.

That was crazy! I was still in the upper deck and the thud echoed in the arena!