Phil is suggesting we may have only 1 spot left for the 2017 class, with 3 upper estimate. depends on what a few guys decide re staying - Marcus Allen among others. Proctor was a few weeks off, but also interest from some guys who are making commits before or at HS all star games. it would appear that if we get lucky on several of these high profile recruits, JF would have to retract scholies from some former walk-ons as the only option to clear positions (still under the 25 though). does the BIG rule of 4 year scholarships apply to former walk-on players who were given scholarships? based on what UMich and tOSU are doing, the 4 year rule seems to be a little soft as it is.
2017 class openings left
- Thread starter blion72
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You don't build a "family" atmosphere by taking scholarships from those that have earned them honestly. What are you thinking? We are different.
Real life has no guarantees. Prepare these minnows for manhood. You no like? Suck it up buttercup.
The board goof chimes in.
Are you still not sold on Franklin, Cosmos??
I guarantee you're an IDIOT. How's that for real life?!?!
Cosmos.
Suck it up. What a stupid comment. When you offer a young man a scholarship you take responsibility for your decision.
What defined JVP was his loyalty to his players both on and off the field. That loyalty translated into an effective recruiting tool. To Joe a scholarship was a promise to the player and the family.
This attitude is what made Penn State football different. that is why We Are Penn State.
Suck it up. What a stupid comment. When you offer a young man a scholarship you take responsibility for your decision.
What defined JVP was his loyalty to his players both on and off the field. That loyalty translated into an effective recruiting tool. To Joe a scholarship was a promise to the player and the family.
This attitude is what made Penn State football different. that is why We Are Penn State.
This discussion happens every year, and no one seems to learn from it. There are ALWAYS more openings then it looks like there will be. Players always transfer, get kicked off the team, get nudged (we call it processed when others do it, but ignore it when a kid from Canada ends up at Nevada), or go pro early. If the recruit is good enough, we'll make it work
Akeel Lynch was not processed. He graduated with the degree he was promised. He loves Penn State. He's a host for a PSU group going to the Rose Bowl. You think a guy who gets processed Harbaugh/SEC-style does that?
Please show me a real example of this? As noted above, Lynch is not one. As Joe always said, you are guaranteed 4 years, not 5. If you are not going to be on 2-deep (or more likely 1-deep) in the 5th year it is time to get on with your life. And why almost everyone had a degree in 4 years.
Sorry guys, @Cosmos isnt wrong. Walk-on scholarships are technically yearly. Now, I'm not actively rooting that this will need to be how we get under 85 but it's a possibility. And don't give me it's not fair, those kids came to Penn State to play football without a scholarship knowing they could earn IF there were extra. This past year there were, maybe next year there won't be
Surprised that the topic of Gray Shirts has not been discussed, or perhaps I've missed it.
The ceiling in question at the moment is the 85 scholarship cap. "Perhaps" there is a way to shift a player or a few to enroll in early 2018, as so-called Gray Shirts.
That way, some existing 2017 season players would have used up their eligibility and some would likely be going to the NFL. As members of the 2018 class, the Gray Shirt(s) get to join the team, while the team stays below the overall cap of 85.
Guessing that some discussions may have occurred already, to see if any of the incoming 2017 recruits would consider that option. Don't know if any current recruits would consider it, if it became helpful for the team.
The ceiling in question at the moment is the 85 scholarship cap. "Perhaps" there is a way to shift a player or a few to enroll in early 2018, as so-called Gray Shirts.
That way, some existing 2017 season players would have used up their eligibility and some would likely be going to the NFL. As members of the 2018 class, the Gray Shirt(s) get to join the team, while the team stays below the overall cap of 85.
Guessing that some discussions may have occurred already, to see if any of the incoming 2017 recruits would consider that option. Don't know if any current recruits would consider it, if it became helpful for the team.
I kind of don't understand why you'd do that, it just limits your 2018 scholarships. Right now we only have 15, granted that number will sore after next year and a bunch of guys go pro. Also, kids who accept that deal are putting themselves at risk bc then the college can pull the offer if they don't look as good as advertised in the year off.
The coaching staff keeps pretty good tabs on who will be staying and who will be going. We can all speculate all we want. My grandfather would call this thread 'pissing in the wind' if he were still alive. Every time I read a thread like this.... It makes me remember him fondly and chuckle. Thanks everyone for reminding me how much common sense and humor he passed on to my brother, sisters and I. Happy New Year!
Gray Shirting is just an option. PSU has used it in the past. PSU has always honored those commitments, from my recollection.
Various pluses and minuses that apply, based on who gets added and who Gray Shirts. Some recruits may be young, lack strength or be underweight. Or some may want to work on their academics. There may be a log jam at their position. It all depends on the particulars. It can be an advantage at times for players and the team.
If you can secure top talent this year, it may be a way to firm up some weak areas and add depth. Bird in the hand sort of thing. LB is a spot that might benefit from adding one more stud, if we can get him.
Adding one or a few very good 4-stars at the end of this class may help the team. If that means the overall number of top players goes up with the combined classes, it may be an advantage. (Example - More 4-Stars in the two combined classes, if an extra is added via Gray Shirt)
Not a big deal. Not saying it would work out with any recruits.
Franklin and the staff are savvy recruiters. If the Gray Shirt option might add benefits, we can be sure they have at least considered their options.
I always believe we have as many scholarships as we need. Of course we begin with a figure - let's say 18. But if kids like Conliffe, Fields, and let's say for the sake of discussion Swift and David Adams decide they want to come to PSU, we will absolutely have 4 scholarships available. No doubt about it. IIRC we do not have to be at 85 until possibly June. Between now and then things will resolve themselves.
In the case of Proctor, I don't believe PSU all of a sudden ran out of scholarships. I think they looked at the LB recruits they have - Faison, Rivers and Franklin - and feel that's all we need and at the same time are not in love with Proctor. So there is no longer room for a LB, just as there would not be room for a QB.
In the case of Proctor, I don't believe PSU all of a sudden ran out of scholarships. I think they looked at the LB recruits they have - Faison, Rivers and Franklin - and feel that's all we need and at the same time are not in love with Proctor. So there is no longer room for a LB, just as there would not be room for a QB.
Or they can just delay their enrollment until January.
WRT to Greyshirting, it would take a special recruit that would want to do it. They would have to want to attend PSU more than going anywhere else to play.
Greyshirting entails that the recruit pays their own way that fall semester while not going to school full time (credit wise so less than 12). Plus Room and Board. They can not be a part of the team in an official capacity. Which technically means they can't practice, workout, or attend position meetings. They also wouldn't be able to go to a bowl game.
So this would take truly a special recruit that would want to do it. They would have to have the financial means to do it and be willing not to go to another school and be apart of the team from day one.
I can't speak to any of the recruits and their possible willingness to do it but it would take that recruit that really wants to attend PSU.
Greyshirting entails that the recruit pays their own way that fall semester while not going to school full time (credit wise so less than 12). Plus Room and Board. They can not be a part of the team in an official capacity. Which technically means they can't practice, workout, or attend position meetings. They also wouldn't be able to go to a bowl game.
So this would take truly a special recruit that would want to do it. They would have to have the financial means to do it and be willing not to go to another school and be apart of the team from day one.
I can't speak to any of the recruits and their possible willingness to do it but it would take that recruit that really wants to attend PSU.
We've had a few who did it successfully. Glen Carson and Jordan Norwood come to mind. Anyone rehabbing an injury would be a potential candidate. Wake Forest has a QB recruit from Harrisburg, Tayvon Bowers, who is going to greyshirt as he tore his ACL in October. He is delaying his enrollment until January, 2018. That eliminates the financial burden that you correctly identify.
Agree. Iirc - We have seen OTHER players volunteer to Gray Shirt, which can make extra room in the class. It does not have to be the last player in, it only has to make the overall counts work.
Again - NOT recommending it this year. It may or may not be possible, given the situations and players' preferences this year.
Just adding it as an option that has worked at times in the past at PSU, when numbers are tight.
It's not that easy. Franklin says he sits down with kids this time of year and let's them know where they stand so they can make a decision. I'm pretty sure that he already knows if certain kids won't be on scholarship next year*. He doesn't just take as many kids as he wants and figures that he'll work it out later.
* I wouldn't be surprised if a kid like M. Allen hasn't yet made a decision about the NFL. I also wouldn't be surprised if some kids have been told that their 2017 scholarship is contingent upon there being one available.
I agree but also believe Coach knows far more than us about who will and will not return. I would feel fairly confident there will be kids who leave, at shock to us, who Coach has known about for a while. Last year not many thought Geno Lewis or Akeel Lynch would leave.
If you really think a kid from Toronto, who played four years of Big Ten Football in front of 106,000 people five hours from his home decided 'Hey I want to go live in Reno, Nevada and play MWC football for a year' you're welcome to. That just doesn't make any sense to me tho. And Lynch staying on good terms with the program doesn't mean it didn't happen- it just means he understands how big time college football works
We're in a good spot. This will all sort itself out naturally. It's irresponsible to take too many kids and irresponsible to take too few. Planning for a natural attrition of 2-3 players is perfectly reasonable. I am against "processing," and am good with the way our scholarships are being managed.
If I were CJF and we were over by one in August, either a walk on has to pay the price or a recruit with whom the staff has been honest about the situation would have to accept a greyshirt.
If I were CJF and we were over by one in August, either a walk on has to pay the price or a recruit with whom the staff has been honest about the situation would have to accept a greyshirt.
This is completely different than what Harbaugh and the SEC are doing. Please tell me that's self-apparent.
CJF is always quiet on health issues. Every year, some kid has to drop out of the football program due to some kind of health issues (enlarged heart, spine, back, knees). We don't know. We had a starting tackle spend time in the hospital recently, God forbid, perhaps it is an issue he cannot overcome. We don't know.
It is pretty common to take a few kids extra as someone will always drop out. If not know, always a couple of kids that, unfortunately, get a season ending injury in spring practice.
It is pretty common to take a few kids extra as someone will always drop out. If not know, always a couple of kids that, unfortunately, get a season ending injury in spring practice.
The two parties completed the exchange of services. Nobody got hosed and that's not "processing."
I believe that's the true definition of a grey shirt. There's not much of an advantage for a kid to enroll in the fall and pay one semester out of his own pocket.
Actually I don't think that you would find the word Greyshirting anywhere in the NCAA rule book. It is just a loophole in the eligibility rules. Eligibility runs on calendar years so if the student doesn't enroll full time his eligibility hasn't started.
Nobody cited anything about NCAA rules. Asking a kid to pay a semester's tuition, even if it's as a part time student, isn't exactly welcoming him with open arms. As mentioned above, the real advantage of a grey shirt would be for a kid who his rehabbing an injury. Unless a given healthy player had a lifelong dream to play for a certain school, why would be sit out a semester when he could accept a scholarship offer elsewhere?
IMHO, I wouldn't classify grey shirting as a loophole. A student athlete gets five years of eligibility upon enrollment regardless of age.
http://www.athleticscholarships.net/question/what-is-grey-shirting
Wasn't starting a flame war just discussing. You are correct it is a special situation and it takes a special kid willing to do it. In my first post in the thread that's what I was conveying. And I agreed it most likely wouldn't be taken real well to a kid that is not rehabbing an injury.
I was basically pointing out that it's not an official NCAA term or designation. And it's is basically a loop hole. The reason is that yes you get 5 years of eligibility. But as I stated eligibility runs on calendar years from the moment you are enrolled full time. So if you are enrolled as a part time student your eligibility has started yet. That was my point.
Good discussion
Franklin certainly knows a lot more than us about who is unlikely to return. For example, I'm sure he knows more about Beh's status than he's told the public. He probably knows a lot more about Mahon's health and prospects for return. I also suspect that some kids told him about their intention to turn pro even though they haven't yet made a public announcement. That said, I seriously doubt that he's offering scholarships to kids without consideration of the 85 limit. He won't simply offer now and work it out later.
BTW I'm quite sure that Franklin told Lynch that Barkley was going to be his 1st team RB. What we don't know is if Franklin pulled the scholarship or if Lynch left on his own because of playing time.
There are some very significant advantages (along with some of the potential downsides that have been discussed) - to the student-athlete - to "greyshirting"..... even without getting into the "roster management" issues that might be important to the Coach/Program.
Most "big-time" recruits don't want to hear them, and greyshirts are not used all that much, but the benefits are real.
Most "big-time" recruits don't want to hear them, and greyshirts are not used all that much, but the benefits are real.
You're probably correct as long as you're only talking about 1 or 2 spots. I assume that most of our players know their scholarship is safe, but a few might have been told that their 2017 scholarship is contingent on somebody leaving. Those players could then make their decisions knowing the risk.
I seriously doubt (and hope) that Franklin doesn't blindside his players.
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