Many thought that Imar wouldn't / couldn't be beaten. But that is kind of what makes high school and college wrestling so interesting to follow, you never know who will suddenly appear or drastically improve to change the landscape!
2019 Wrestling Predictions
- Thread starter RUMadBro
- Start date
125: Spencer's to lose but don't be surprised if his matches become less dominant.. He will start to experience what Zain, Nolf, Bo, Mark etc get with guys just trying not to get tech'd/pinned.. I think Gavin goes here for us and has a decent chance at AA.
133: Daton Fix.. I think by the end of the year it's his to lose. I believe Gross will go up to 41 and Micic/Suriano finish in the 2nd tier. RBY could AA but this will be one of the tougher weights to do it in.
141: Yianni's to lose but could see him taking a loss or two before NCAA's.. On a side note I think Verkleeran goes here for the Nits and Lee takes a redshirt. Also need to see Verk's gas tank at 141 before I commit to AA.
149: Berge and should be top 8 by the end of the year.. Looked really good at WTT and can only think he will improve once sole focus is back on Folkstyle. This will be a tossup weight with anyone of the top 6-10 guys having a legit shot.
157: Nolf and with a vengeance.. Everyone else is a visible tier behind and celebrating their last year of being Nolf'd..
165: Cenzo's to lose until proven otherwise. Curious to see if Marsteller makes a jump.
174: I like Hall to get his second championship here and don't see anyone challenging him as Zahid goes to 184 so him and his poor brother can finally eat.
184: Zahid's weight and I will be hoping that Shaq catches him in a cradle.. And you know what this means........
197: Rumor's were true and Bo eats 7 chickens a day, everyday, to get to 197.. He also beats anyone at this weight easily unless their name is PD3.. I kid I kid..
HWT: Going out on a limb here but I think Nevills may retire.. Not my wish but just a gut feeling after seeing him injured again at NCAA's.. Enter Cassar, who beats Stoll three times in the same season and becomes the first HWT Champ to also pose shirtless for his trophy presentation.
November can't come soon enough boys..
133: Daton Fix.. I think by the end of the year it's his to lose. I believe Gross will go up to 41 and Micic/Suriano finish in the 2nd tier. RBY could AA but this will be one of the tougher weights to do it in.
141: Yianni's to lose but could see him taking a loss or two before NCAA's.. On a side note I think Verkleeran goes here for the Nits and Lee takes a redshirt. Also need to see Verk's gas tank at 141 before I commit to AA.
149: Berge and should be top 8 by the end of the year.. Looked really good at WTT and can only think he will improve once sole focus is back on Folkstyle. This will be a tossup weight with anyone of the top 6-10 guys having a legit shot.
157: Nolf and with a vengeance.. Everyone else is a visible tier behind and celebrating their last year of being Nolf'd..
165: Cenzo's to lose until proven otherwise. Curious to see if Marsteller makes a jump.
174: I like Hall to get his second championship here and don't see anyone challenging him as Zahid goes to 184 so him and his poor brother can finally eat.
184: Zahid's weight and I will be hoping that Shaq catches him in a cradle.. And you know what this means........
197: Rumor's were true and Bo eats 7 chickens a day, everyday, to get to 197.. He also beats anyone at this weight easily unless their name is PD3.. I kid I kid..
HWT: Going out on a limb here but I think Nevills may retire.. Not my wish but just a gut feeling after seeing him injured again at NCAA's.. Enter Cassar, who beats Stoll three times in the same season and becomes the first HWT Champ to also pose shirtless for his trophy presentation.
November can't come soon enough boys..
Then what's your point? If you don't think Zahid is better than Dake in free (which does not mean he's better than Bo in folk) then why bother even mentioning it? You only used it as a strawman. It's meaningless.
Hmmmm ..
Spencer Lee won't see people flopping on the mat avoiding getting abused. He absolutely tortures people and if you lay there you will get abused. With his knee and shoulder injury well in his rear view mirror, I think he cruises. Unless ...
Why do you think Daton Fix goes 133? He has been going 57Kg all spring during his redshirt season. Why would he bump to 133 if he appears to be managing his weight well at 125? He and Spencer Lee would battle it out for 125. Everyone else either moves up or accepts AA status. (see Suriano)
It will be interesting to see where the young PSU replacements fit into the lower weight fights. If anyone can surprise and AA we will just be adding more cushion to the NCAA points total.
The shuffle of Cassar and Shakur will be interesting to track. Both have legitimate title shots at 197 (barring the chicken eating binge by Bo). I'm hoping that Nevills is healthy and can find that right weight balance that lets him be active and avoid injuries. Hard to see him as a top seed, but in a cleared out class a healthy Nevills could make a lot of noise.
Fun year coming up.
Spencer Lee won't see people flopping on the mat avoiding getting abused. He absolutely tortures people and if you lay there you will get abused. With his knee and shoulder injury well in his rear view mirror, I think he cruises. Unless ...
Why do you think Daton Fix goes 133? He has been going 57Kg all spring during his redshirt season. Why would he bump to 133 if he appears to be managing his weight well at 125? He and Spencer Lee would battle it out for 125. Everyone else either moves up or accepts AA status. (see Suriano)
It will be interesting to see where the young PSU replacements fit into the lower weight fights. If anyone can surprise and AA we will just be adding more cushion to the NCAA points total.
The shuffle of Cassar and Shakur will be interesting to track. Both have legitimate title shots at 197 (barring the chicken eating binge by Bo). I'm hoping that Nevills is healthy and can find that right weight balance that lets him be active and avoid injuries. Hard to see him as a top seed, but in a cleared out class a healthy Nevills could make a lot of noise.
Fun year coming up.
What about the seven (7) time Bo has beaten Martin?
03/15/18: Nickal WBF 2:30 Martin (NCAA Champ)
03/03/18: Nickal Dec 7-4 Martin (B10 Champ)
02/03/18: Nickal MD 10-2 Martin (Dual)
03/04/17: Martin Dec 6-4 Nickal (B10s)
02/03/17: Nickal Dec 8-2 Martin (Dual)
03/17/16: Martin Dec 11-9 Nickal (NCAAs)
03/05/16: Nickal WBF 2:28 Martin (B10s)
02/05/16: Nickal Dec 11-5 Martin (Dual)
12/06/15: Nickal Dec 4-3 Martin (NL Open)
Martin's wins were somewhat flukes in retrospect.
I'm assuming this was in response to my post so if I'm incorrect, please disregard.
Lee wrestled for half a year last year (not a ton of tape) and if you think he won't be scouted to slow him down, I strongly disagree (Zains Bow and Arrow was defended more successfully this year IMO). I don't know where you got "flopping" on the mat out of my prediction as I said nothing close to that. I can guarantee Spencer will see a lot of backing up and more hands to the face from neutral which was a common theme anytime PSU wrestled certain kids/programs i.e. half of Rutgers starting lineup, etc.
Fix makes more sense team wise for OSU to go at 33 IMO.. Picc is a proven commodity and likely AA at 125, not so much at 33. I think Fix will AA at either.
I still think Bo goes up and regardless of who we have at HWY (Nevills or Cassar) is pretty much a lock to be high AA.. I think Gable Stevenson goes true freshman year and ruins a lot of dreams..
Def agree its going to be a fun year.
In both losses, Bo went chest to chest with Martin and lost. He hasn't tried that kind of throw again.
What about them? Bo has been better than Martin consistently when you look at the whole picture. But the idea that Bo wins when it counts is false. Martin has won when it counts twice. His two wins over Bo in college were big wins in big spots.
That plus there's the assumption that Yianni even wrestles this year. Given Ivy League eligibility rules, I'd expect Koll to be very conservative -- see how things go in the fall, and take no chances with Yianni's spring enrollment if he's not doing full practices by December.
Winning 2 of 9 matches against the same guy is, in no way, "winning when it counts". A wrestler with a 90-3 career record (2 NCAA titles) is an apex predator that wins when it counts. A wrestler with a 96-18 career record (1 NCAA title) is a very good wrestler that sometimes wins a big one.
I think that's a little unfair to Martin. He's an extremely talented wrestler who has given Bo 2 of his 6 collegiate losses, and has won a national title, been a runnerup and finished fifth. His wins over Bo were legit.
Right. But 7-2 is a bit more than a trend. Myles IS good. Bo is just better...no 2 ways about it. I said it above...going 2 of 9 against a guy is, in no way, "winning when it counts".
And Bo pinned MM in the semis of BIGs and the finals of NCAAs with the team title on the line so I'm not sure what your point is.
So, what do you think is Lee's ceiling this year? I didn't see the match with Yianni, but it sounded like it was competitive. I'm pretty certain he can beat McKenna, say, 4 or 5 times out of 10. But, based on NCAAs, I have a hard time seeing him beat Eierman, maybe Lee could win 1 out of 10. Reason being that Lee is a somewhat "vanilla" shoot-attack-straightforward wrestler, and Eierman is an elite scrambler (elite enough to beat people like Logie Bear), Lee's style plays right into Eierman's strengths. So maybe Lee's ceiling is 2nd/3rd, depending on who's in his side of the bracket?
I couldn't figure out why the gopsusports.com site showed more losses than I could account for. Now I realize I combined his total career losses with the year-by-year losses, thus doubling my count. Thanks.
If I understand the other posters, it was the use of "fluke" in your previous post. Fluke means "unlikely chance occurrence", or "surprising piece of luck". Not the case here. No one has argued that Myles is a better wrestler...just that "fluke" may be understating his two wins.
True. If Bo goes 3-0 against Myles again next year, the word "fluke" might be a big more statistically justified.
True. If Bo goes 3-0 against Myles again next year, the word "fluke" might be a big more statistically justified.
What if instead of "fluke" we use "anomaly" ?
And either of them beating Downey would be an aberration.What if instead of "fluke" we use "anomaly" ?
We can just say that Myles’ winning is INCONCEIVABLE!What if instead of "fluke" we use "anomaly" ?
It depends a lot on who ends up at the weight:
- Yianni: clear favorite if healthy. Beat Lee 12-7, IIRC 5-1 takedowns (I know Lee got 1).
- Eierman: beat Lee 12-4 at nationals. Clear favorite until we see something different from Lee.
- McKenna: favored today but I think Lee catches up to him. Last year's 7-6 match was an experience loss.
- Brock: Lee should be favored, but a dangerous matchup. And could be wildly entertaining.
Now for some wild cards:
- Gross: Too good on top, and Lee is not yet good enough on bottom for this matchup.
- Micic: IMO he's superior on feet, and tremendous at making in-match adjustments.
- Wilson: the Wilson at nationals was a wrecking ball. Would be a fun match.
- Ashnault: favored if healthy.
Of those 4 wild cards, I don't expect any of them at 141 except maybe Wilson (either he or Jamel Morris has to go up).
What if they were flukes? What difference does that make? It still doesn't change the facts. If someone says Bo always beats Martin when it counts they're objectively wrong. His two losses to Myles were high stakes matches. No amount of strawmen arguments can change that.
My point was very clear. RuMad claimed that Bo beats Martin when it counts. That is objectively false. Myles Martin has two wins over Bo and both were in big matches, the NCAA finals and B1G semis. The B1G semis win essentially clinched the B1G title for tOSU and the NCAA finals is the biggest of all possible folkstyle matches.
Bo is better. There's no doubt and Bo has beaten Myles in his share of high stakes matches. But he has not always beaten Myles when the stakes were the highest. It's a fact.
Did I say "always"? I did not.
It really is this simple. At this point in their careers Bo > Myles. Myles has 18 losses and his only 2 real signature wins were his 2 against Bo. Meanwhile Bo only has 3 losses and has beaten Myles 7 times...and has an upset win over Gabe Dean for a title.
More wins, less losses, more titles. Myles is good...and he's a quality kid. But Bo can best Myles at every single solitary skill Myles presents.
Yes, Myles beat Bo a couple of times. Just stop trying to imply that Myles is near Bo. There isn't a fact out there to back it up. 2-7, 2-7, 2-7.
Except for maybe that double-over / body-lock position....
It seems like this argument is purely semantic, and everyone is pretty much on the same page.
It's obvious you've read none of my posts in this thread and don't have any idea what I've said. You feverishly hit reply so you can argue without the slightest idea what you're arguing against. All you see is red.
Holy cow guys, where the heck is this going? Flukes, aberrations, statistically justified, anomalies, abominations and inconceivable wins (ok, those last 2 were provided as jokes, I believe). Sorry, but it all sounds a bit over-the-top rationalization to me, and a bit home-cooked at that.
Myles Martin earned his wins...good for him. Nothing fluky about it. My take is that every one of Bo's losses (wins too), has made him a better wrestler, and while I know they were painful for him at the time, they're also in the past, and he's done nothing but look ahead...and has done so with class. No excuses.
Generally speaking, upsets happen every day in sports. The better man, the better woman, the better team, doesn't always win. And it's because, imo, on any given day, the opponent was actually better. Sports are "games of inches", sometimes with talent levels that are close enough to talk about "odds", or the distinction given to one persons likelihood of winning...and of course we're dealing with human beings here, so the "human" factors affecting outcomes has to be considered. Removing tinted lenses here, I could say something like, "Bo should win 8 out of 10 times if they wrestled today", or something to that effect (don't judge the 8 of 10 comment, I'm using it as an example).
Myles Martin earned his wins...good for him. Nothing fluky about it. My take is that every one of Bo's losses (wins too), has made him a better wrestler, and while I know they were painful for him at the time, they're also in the past, and he's done nothing but look ahead...and has done so with class. No excuses.
Generally speaking, upsets happen every day in sports. The better man, the better woman, the better team, doesn't always win. And it's because, imo, on any given day, the opponent was actually better. Sports are "games of inches", sometimes with talent levels that are close enough to talk about "odds", or the distinction given to one persons likelihood of winning...and of course we're dealing with human beings here, so the "human" factors affecting outcomes has to be considered. Removing tinted lenses here, I could say something like, "Bo should win 8 out of 10 times if they wrestled today", or something to that effect (don't judge the 8 of 10 comment, I'm using it as an example).
It's interesting how kids grow. I was curious and looked back at past weights of the two. The answer also makes me wonder about the statement that was made about meeting each other hundreds of time or whatever it was. Here is a quick comparison going back to 2011:
Mark Hall
2011 - 130
2012 - 152
2013 - 160/76kg
2014 - 170/84kg
2015 - 170/74kg
2016 - 170
2017 - 174
2018 - 174
Zahid Valencia
2011 - 120
2012 - 106/113/120
2013 - 126/58kg (2 wins over Nick Lee)
2014 - 132/66kg
2015 - 182/84kg
2016 - 184/84kg
2017 - 174
2018 - 174
I did see a few matches with Anthony Valencia for Mark and quite a few matches between Bo Nickal and Zahid. Bo won several of them.
dont forget about Lee--that kid has is driven to get better. Another year in that room will get Lee to the next level. Yianni is a freak but Lee will be right there with him.
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