30 for 30 "The Gospel according to Mac"
- Thread starter lostlion
- Start date
A good episode of what has been one of ESPN's best program features.
I was impressed with the former Colorado players; whether through their own character, or with the help of McCartney's guidance, they come off as a better lot than the Nebraska and Oklahoma players of that era.
I was impressed with the former Colorado players; whether through their own character, or with the help of McCartney's guidance, they come off as a better lot than the Nebraska and Oklahoma players of that era.
I thought it was one of their best episodes (along with Hillsborough, Broke and Chris Herren). It shed a completely different light on McCarthy for me as I thought he was one of those win-at-all-cost, pay the players type of coaches. My perception was based on how quickly he turned an abysmal program around and all the trouble his players got into, but apparently a lot of this was based on recruiting the mothers of "inner city" kids and the prejudices they faced in Boulder. I definitely have an improved opinion on McCarthy.
Now Lou Holtz ... this episode knocked him down a notch.
Now Lou Holtz ... this episode knocked him down a notch.
Not that I had any positive feelings about old wind bag Holtz anyway, but you are right.
You wonder why he would try to motivate his team by running down his opponent. He sells himself as a motivational speaker but those comments he made about "living a lie" was negative and maybe reveals the real person which makes everything else an act and false. Boo on Lou even if he made Marky Mark May look silly.
I lived in Tucson and in Boulder during many of those years, and let me tell you first hand, that CU program during that time was BEYOND crooked. Right there with SMU.
That's my recollection. Nevertheless, we're all flawed, the man did find personal redemption, and that would seem to be the focus of the piece.
Lived in CO from 91-93, thought the piece painted Mac in a bit too positive light. Yes, the Boulder community was largely middle/upper class white and these players had a difficult adjustment since many came from the inner city and were african american. Yes, I think they were sometimes targeted by Boulder cops. But, with all that said, they still put themselves into many troubling situations that resulted in arrests. It was not all the Boulder cops fault like it was somewhat portrayed in the piece.
Mac is an interesting figure. I know that, at the time, many many people on the CU campus were not happy with him starting and operating Promise Keepers from his state subsidized office on campus. The use of university resources for the benefit of the Promise Keepers was always very controversial especially in a liberal town like Boulder. His views on abortion, gay rights, role of the women in the marriage, etc. were more fitting for Colorado Springs than they were Boulder. While he says he retired due to his "come to Jesus" moment, I think it had as much to do with the pressure on him from the admin at CU and outside groups due to the Promise Keepers stuff.
I did love the favorite joke going around CO at the time amongst opponents of Mac. Why did his recruiting fall off in the last few years?????? He ran out of daughters.
Mac is an interesting figure. I know that, at the time, many many people on the CU campus were not happy with him starting and operating Promise Keepers from his state subsidized office on campus. The use of university resources for the benefit of the Promise Keepers was always very controversial especially in a liberal town like Boulder. His views on abortion, gay rights, role of the women in the marriage, etc. were more fitting for Colorado Springs than they were Boulder. While he says he retired due to his "come to Jesus" moment, I think it had as much to do with the pressure on him from the admin at CU and outside groups due to the Promise Keepers stuff.
I did love the favorite joke going around CO at the time amongst opponents of Mac. Why did his recruiting fall off in the last few years?????? He ran out of daughters.
I've actually attended a promise keepers show, at the Tucson Convention Center circa 1998, and it was as close to a cult ceremony as I have ever seen.
McCartney is a religious nut. Glad we never had a coach who feels the need to shove religion down everyone's throat.
it seems the FCA guys run rampart in football. Youth, HS, college, pros they all seem to use their position to proselytize. Starting with Dabo Sweeney etc. BO'B hired Charlie Fisher to be his QB coach, and after coaching McMoxie pretty well his SR yr, and then onto to the B1G Frosh of the year in Hack, BO'B fires Charlie Fisher (again who was not a hold over from Joe's staff). I always wonder why. What did Charlie do or not do to lose his job. After listening to BO'B for 2 yrs, and after watching BO'B on Hardknocks, and after seeing who hired Charlie Fisher, my theory is, Charlie was an FCA guy that did not fit in with guys like BO'B, Butler etc who was letting off F Bombs every other minute in staff meetings. Charlie my even had said as much, but that is my theory about why BO'B parted ways with Charlie.
I find this thread to be ironic.
I've attended two of his Promise Keepers sessions. The one at Three Rivers in Pittsburg was named "Break Down Those Walls" and was dedicated to breaking down the dividing walls that led to hostility. The message was to see what is common and good and quit talking about what is different and, potentially, divisive. The a big part of the theme was racial equality.
The irony here is that these anti-McCartney posts are because of a tactical disagreement that causes you to throw away the whole of McCartney. Now, I don't know about you, but I've never met a person that I TOTALLY agree with. So take PK and BM and use them for what they are worth and throw away what you disagree with.
I can tell you that I went to this PK session with my Brother who is ten years older and a Vietnam vet. In nam, he had become pretty racist with regard to Asians and Black Americans. At one point, I had to use the restroom but, unfortunately, this was a very emotional part of the session. I walked back to see my erstwhile racist brother hugging a black man. Later, they had a nice conversation and it was a life changing event for both of them. Now, I don't care about McCartney's football players or his daughters or the QB who had cancer. But what BM's PK movement did for my brother, and the tens of thousands of people that attended, was invaluable.
I've lost touch with the PK movement. I understand that it expanded too rapidly and got into financial trouble. I don't know any of that. But I do feel we need to concentrate on what unites us, the good that can be done, as opposed to what divides us (as we have done way too many times).
I've attended two of his Promise Keepers sessions. The one at Three Rivers in Pittsburg was named "Break Down Those Walls" and was dedicated to breaking down the dividing walls that led to hostility. The message was to see what is common and good and quit talking about what is different and, potentially, divisive. The a big part of the theme was racial equality.
The irony here is that these anti-McCartney posts are because of a tactical disagreement that causes you to throw away the whole of McCartney. Now, I don't know about you, but I've never met a person that I TOTALLY agree with. So take PK and BM and use them for what they are worth and throw away what you disagree with.
I can tell you that I went to this PK session with my Brother who is ten years older and a Vietnam vet. In nam, he had become pretty racist with regard to Asians and Black Americans. At one point, I had to use the restroom but, unfortunately, this was a very emotional part of the session. I walked back to see my erstwhile racist brother hugging a black man. Later, they had a nice conversation and it was a life changing event for both of them. Now, I don't care about McCartney's football players or his daughters or the QB who had cancer. But what BM's PK movement did for my brother, and the tens of thousands of people that attended, was invaluable.
I've lost touch with the PK movement. I understand that it expanded too rapidly and got into financial trouble. I don't know any of that. But I do feel we need to concentrate on what unites us, the good that can be done, as opposed to what divides us (as we have done way too many times).
You definitely hit upon the Good and the Bad of the message from the show. I took the Good parts as positive for me per the work Mac did to improve relations between his players and the community but nothing is perfect and he certainly had motivation.
I hope all his efforts were genuine and heartfelt but I've never seen what he does when no one is looking.
Definitely a flawed man in many ways but someone I can learn something from too.
To follow up on Obli's post, I think you saw a genuine affection of McCartney's ex players, many of whom are black, for McCartney. He seems to feel the same way about them. Much in the same way Joe's ex-players felt about Joe, and vice-versa. McCartney helped many of those kids have a better life.
In addition, those ex-Colorado players seem much more like ex-Penn State players than ex-Nebraska or ex-Oklahoma players.
The religious aspects of McCartney's persona may turn some people off about everything regarding McCartney, but I don't think he is entirely a bad guy. He is clearly sincere in his beliefs, and he truly did some good for some people.
In addition, those ex-Colorado players seem much more like ex-Penn State players than ex-Nebraska or ex-Oklahoma players.
The religious aspects of McCartney's persona may turn some people off about everything regarding McCartney, but I don't think he is entirely a bad guy. He is clearly sincere in his beliefs, and he truly did some good for some people.
They way I heard it, McCartney went into the "belly of the beast" recruiting challenging players because a) he had to to win and b) he felt he could make a difference in their lives.
Also, not sure why people who don't like religion bristol at being sold religion while they try to un-sell religion. Let people believe what they want and pursue what works for them.
Of all the things that bother me, launching F-bombs is without question LAST on the list. If you got rid of every coach/player/sideline hanger on who ever let loose with F-bombs aplenty, there would be no more football. You might just as well try to get the F-bombs out of the United States Navy. It ain't happening.
The game BEGINS with an F, FFS.
I like Ned's response just like you do. There are lots of us who have faith but are not deeply religious who are offended by the Great Commission losers, who believe their ticket to heaven gets punched only when they hype the rest of us to death about their beliefs. No way God ever intended me to take time out from good works to listen to a jesus sales pitch.
My personal faith says, "Get outta my face" is the only appropriate response. You may recall a poster here named FUN 160 (since deceased) who explained the Great Commission to me one time--how his faith required him to bring me into his religion. Ixnay.
Not at all....I feel exactly the same. But I understand how someone who has gained via their faith would want to share it. However, all of our paths are different. And that is as it should be. My father used to say that "you will be religious, if you live long enough." And I tend to agree. We all need a little help and faith, at some point. It is at various times and in different degrees. Sometimes, if you lucky, its family and friends. Sometimes its a place where you feel you need to belong. Sometimes it is to help you with an addiction or loss. But there are great avenues if you are in need, and you don't need to like everyone or agree with their points of view. Lets all support everyone and live with those consequences.
I think you have it backwards, my theory is Charlie got fired , not for F bombing, but because he didn't like all the F bombing and said as much.
Yep...well stated. But the fact is that you have family, friends, no addictions, etc. Others, sometimes afflicted and abandoned, need other ways to cope. My only recommendation is that you not look unkindly or negatively respond to someone who is excited that their religious path has helped them and wants to help you with that path as well. While you disagree with their tactics, their hearts are in the right place.
Well, that certainly makes more sense than describing it in terms of a salesman's payroll set-up.
