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70 YEARS AGO TODAY........The United States of America dropped an atomic bomb on Japan (link)

"Saved American lives, blah blah blah" Do you deny this? Do you want to give us a guess how much longer the war would have lasted if we had not dropped these bombs? C'mon, give it a guess. How much longer would the war have lasted if we hadn't dropped the bomb? I'd like to see your answer.

What about what I said about the firebombing of Tokyo? If we hadn't had the atomic bomb then we would have bombed the crap out of Japan regardless. As usual, nothing from you about this. You NEVER discuss anything, with you it's always "this is the way it is, period."

Yes the A-bomb was horrible, but WHAT was the alternative? As usual, nothing from you. I'm saying right now: if we had not dropped the A-bombs, far, far more Japanese would have died than actually died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Do you dispute that?

I'm not even going with "they bombed Pearl Harbor and so they deserved it." That's not part of my thinking.

You NEVER provide any alternative, any answers, to anything you say. Just empty talk, that's all you are. And a weak internet bully, bringing up my faith every chance you can. Pathetic.

1) An alternative? Why not drop the bomb off shore? Why not drop flyers the day or two beforehand letting them know what's possible if they don't surrender? What may become of Tokyo if they don't take the threat seriously. And, that's just off the top of my head. You don't think HIGHER UPS in Washington didn't have alternatives? And, don't give me that USSR bullcrap. Stalin was NEVER a threat.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...mic-bomb-survivors-20150806-story.html#page=1

2) RELIGION MUST END - ALL RELIGIONS. I want world peace. You? Do you think we should all be Catholics? Like that will lead to world peace?

My drill sergeant said it best during basic training, May 1988. "Im not prejudice. I hate all you people the same. Now, which one of you fvckin privates is gonna my fvckin day?"

That's my feeling on religion. I hate them ALL the same. So, don't take it personal. It's your Pope changing things as he goes.

Just so you know, it's only a matter of time till groups like ISIS realize their true enemy are humanists. It's we who want to educate their young and empower their women. Not US soldiers or US govt. Humanists are their antithesis.
 
"Stalin was NEVER a threat."

"RELIGION MUST END - ALL RELIGIONS"

So you are an american hating communist. Congrats.

I think you have smoked too much pot.
 
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But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/

Are seriously trying to claim CIVILIANS weren't SAVED by the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
 
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Every war ever fought was fought for $$$$$, nothing yet has changed. As of now we have "soldiers" everywhere in the world protecting "our business interests". By "our" I did not mean anyone on this board :) Although, all of us on this board pay for such and have no say on why or where.


Meanwhile, back in reality... Horrific inhumanities can require force, to overcome the inhumanities.

The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II

In December 1937, the Japanese army swept into the ancient city of Nanking. Within weeks, more than 300,000 Chinese civilians and soldiers were systematically raped, tortured, and murdered

a death toll exceeding that of the atomic blasts of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.

a book that recounts the horrible events in that eastern Chinese city under Japanese occupation in the late 1930s.

Nanking, she writes, served as a kind of laboratory in which Japanese soldiers were taught to slaughter unarmed, unresisting civilians, as they would later do throughout Asia.

Likening their victims to insects and animals, the Japanese commanders orchestrated a campaign in which several hundred thousand--no one is sure just how many--Chinese soldiers and noncombatants alike were killed.
 
As a humanist, they were justified.
th
 
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1) An alternative? Why not drop the bomb off shore? Why not drop flyers the day or two beforehand letting them know what's possible if they don't surrender? What may become of Tokyo if they don't take the threat seriously. And, that's just off the top of my head. You don't think HIGHER UPS in Washington didn't have alternatives? And, don't give me that USSR bullcrap. Stalin was NEVER a threat.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...mic-bomb-survivors-20150806-story.html#page=1



From a PBS special:


Primary Resources: Leaflets warning Japanese of Atomic Bomb, 1945

Leaflets dropped on cities in Japan warning civilians about the atomic bomb, dropped c. August 6, 1945

TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:

America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.

We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.

We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.

Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.

You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.


========


EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.

The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.

Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.

A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.

Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.

Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

Source: Harry S. Truman Library, Miscellaneous historical document file, no. 258.​
 
1) An alternative? Why not drop the bomb off shore? Why not drop flyers the day or two beforehand letting them know what's possible if they don't surrender? What may become of Tokyo if they don't take the threat seriously. And, that's just off the top of my head. You don't think HIGHER UPS in Washington didn't have alternatives? And, don't give me that USSR bullcrap. Stalin was NEVER a threat.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...mic-bomb-survivors-20150806-story.html#page=1

2) RELIGION MUST END - ALL RELIGIONS. I want world peace. You? Do you think we should all be Catholics? Like that will lead to world peace?

My drill sergeant said it best during basic training, May 1988. "Im not prejudice. I hate all you people the same. Now, which one of you fvckin privates is gonna my fvckin day?"

That's my feeling on religion. I hate them ALL the same. So, don't take it personal. It's your Pope changing things as he goes.

Just so you know, it's only a matter of time till groups like ISIS realize their true enemy are humanists. It's we who want to educate their young and empower their women. Not US soldiers or US govt. Humanists are their antithesis.
You do not know your history that well. Ask the Hungarians about Stalin. Or the East Germans (I know a couple).

There was consideration given to a demonstration. But they were not 100% sure the bomb would work--in action. They also weren't sure if the Japanese leaders would allow their people to believe it. They did not want to surrender after the first bomb.

"Army staff produced a document, "The Fundamental Policy to Be Followed Henceforth in the Conduct of the War," which stated that the Japanese people would fight to extinction rather than surrender. This policy was adopted by the Big Six. (Tōgō opposed it, while the other five supported it.)"

And as far as the others go, after Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, none of whom were religious (most were anti-religious) I'm not sure how anyone can figure that humans are basically "good", when left to their own devices.
 
So you just hate the US and are hating on other peoples religion. What does this have to do with PSU or Penn State Football which I thought was the point of this board. I get it you want to be the antagonist but being a d-bag is still just that. I can only assume a slow day at the Mental Ward.


Not is it only a 'slow day at the Mental Ward' but Felli's handlers there screwed up again and left him access to a computer!
 
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Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html


The two bombs saved many many many more lives, INCLUDING JAPANESE LIVES, than they killed. And prevented Japan from being carved into American / Russian pieces similar to Germany. Truman did what needed to be done.
 
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From a PBS special:


Primary Resources: Leaflets warning Japanese of Atomic Bomb, 1945

Leaflets dropped on cities in Japan warning civilians about the atomic bomb, dropped c. August 6, 1945

TO THE JAPANESE PEOPLE:

America asks that you take immediate heed of what we say on this leaflet.

We are in possession of the most destructive explosive ever devised by man. A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s can carry on a single mission. This awful fact is one for you to ponder and we solemnly assure you it is grimly accurate.

We have just begun to use this weapon against your homeland. If you still have any doubt, make inquiry as to what happened to Hiroshima when just one atomic bomb fell on that city.

Before using this bomb to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, we ask that you now petition the Emperor to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better and peace-loving Japan.

You should take steps now to cease military resistance. Otherwise, we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.
========


EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

ATTENTION JAPANESE PEOPLE. EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.

Because your military leaders have rejected the thirteen part surrender declaration, two momentous events have occurred in the last few days.

The Soviet Union, because of this rejection on the part of the military has notified your Ambassador Sato that it has declared war on your nation. Thus, all powerful countries of the world are now at war with you.

Also, because of your leaders' refusal to accept the surrender declaration that would enable Japan to honorably end this useless war, we have employed our atomic bomb.

A single one of our newly developed atomic bombs is actually the equivalent in explosive power to what 2000 of our giant B-29s could have carried on a single mission. Radio Tokyo has told you that with the first use of this weapon of total destruction, Hiroshima was virtually destroyed.

Before we use this bomb again and again to destroy every resource of the military by which they are prolonging this useless war, petition the emperor now to end the war. Our president has outlined for you the thirteen consequences of an honorable surrender. We urge that you accept these consequences and begin the work of building a new, better, and peace-loving Japan.

Act at once or we shall resolutely employ this bomb and all our other superior weapons to promptly and forcefully end the war.

EVACUATE YOUR CITIES.
Source: Harry S. Truman Library, Miscellaneous historical document file, no. 258.​

Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
 
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1) An alternative? Why not drop the bomb off shore? Why not drop flyers the day or two beforehand letting them know what's possible if they don't surrender? What may become of Tokyo if they don't take the threat seriously. And, that's just off the top of my head. You don't think HIGHER UPS in Washington didn't have alternatives? And, don't give me that USSR bullcrap. Stalin was NEVER a threat.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...mic-bomb-survivors-20150806-story.html#page=1

2) RELIGION MUST END - ALL RELIGIONS. I want world peace. You? Do you think we should all be Catholics? Like that will lead to world peace?

My drill sergeant said it best during basic training, May 1988. "Im not prejudice. I hate all you people the same. Now, which one of you fvckin privates is gonna my fvckin day?"

That's my feeling on religion. I hate them ALL the same. So, don't take it personal. It's your Pope changing things as he goes.

Just so you know, it's only a matter of time till groups like ISIS realize their true enemy are humanists. It's we who want to educate their young and empower their women. Not US soldiers or US govt. Humanists are their antithesis.

Get over yourself.
 
The sound of it.....



BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBbbbbhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
 
Yeah I'm going to do that, don't know why I'e waited this long. I genuinely can't remember the last time I thought he added anything to this board. It's certainly been many years.

Does he not realize that he is a joke to everyone else on this board? What possess someone to hang out in place where they are universally disliked? He's not even a real PSU fan, he didn't even watch the bowl game because he was certain we were going to lose.

I'm not sure how anyone can figure that humans are basically "good", when left to their own devices.

He sees the world completely backwards. It's religion that keeps people in check, society has been going down the tubes as people lose religion. People behave better when the believe in religion, that is true even if you personally don't believe in religion. Fanatics, not necessarily religious fanatics, are what threatens world peace. Ironically, he is a fanatic, part of the problem.
 
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From the review...
How Hiroshima and Nagasaki Saved Millions of Lives

By showing the world the horrors of nuclear warfare, the atomic bombings made future ones much less likely.

By Zachary Keck
August 07, 2014

The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki gave Japanese leaders the excuse they needed to take the absolutely unthinkable action of surrendering.

Indeed, the atomic bombings figured prominently in Emperor Hirohito’s unprecedented speech to the nation announcing Japan’s surrender.

The enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization,”
the Emperor told a stunned Japanese nation (stunned partly because they had never heard the Emperor speak and partly because they couldn’t believe Japan was surrendering.)

Without the atomic excuse, Japan’s leaders would have ordered that the military continue to fight despite the Soviet’s declaration of war against Tokyo. The fighting that would have ensued before they surrendered would have resulted in far more deaths than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. After all, given the amount of deaths Japan had endured during the war, the leaders could not have surrendered after only 200,000 soldiers were killed.

Moreover, the fighting would have resulted in the Soviet Union conquering and occupying parts of Japan. This is problematic for at least two reasons.

First, after WWII ended, millions of Japanese soldiers and civilians were scattered all across Asia. The unlucky 600,000 Japanese POWs taken by the Soviets suffered horrendously, being interned in labor camps where they died at an appalling rate (roughly 10 percent by some estimates). Had the Soviet Union conquered portions of Japan, it’s likely that the residents in those areas would have suffered similar fates.

Secondly, allowing the Soviet invasion to proceed would have likely resulted in a divided Japan, with part of the country living under Moscow rule and the rest occupied by the United States. This might have eventually been resolved peacefully in the mold of Germany. However, even the German case resulted in many tense standoffs between nuclear-armed superpowers. Having a second Berlin during the Cold War would hardly have been conducive to peace. On the other hand, a divided Japan could have gone the way of Korea and Vietnam where brutal wars followed their divisions, killing millions in the process. In the case of Korea, between 1.1 and 1.5 million people died during the war and yet the nation remains divided and still technically at war. North Koreans continue to suffer under a backwards and horribly oppressive regime.

But Hiroshima and Nagasaki probably saved the most lives by demonstrating to the world the horrors of atomic warfare.

Although the taboo against the use of nuclear weapons took decades to take develop, scholars like Nina Tannenwald have shown the important influence the atomic bombing of Japan had on early Cold War leaders’ views on the use of nuclear weapons. Tannenwald notes that even President Truman, likely haunted privately by his decision to use the bomb, refused his advisers’ attempts to use nuclear weapons again.

Had the horrors of nuclear warfare not been seen with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it is much more likely that they would have been used during the Cold War. This would have resulted in far more death and destruction for two reasons. First, there would have been more nuclear-armed nations, all of whom would have had larger arsenals than the U.S. at the end of WWII. Second, the destructive levels of nuclear weapons grew rapidly in the years after the war. For example, when the U.S. tested the world’s first thermonuclear weapon in 1952, it had 700 times the explosive power of the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. It’s unlikely that the world could have recovered from a superpower exchange of thermonuclear weapons.

In sum, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unspeakable tragedies (as was much of WWII). But whether one believes the decision to use atomic weapons was correct or not, and whatever one believes the motives of the U.S. leaders were, that decision ended up saving millions of lives.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/how-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-saved-millions-of-lives/
 
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But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/

And, MackDumbA$$, the people that would have died by the 100,000s would have mostly been 18-25 year old CIVILIANS that were DRAFTED into military status because the sneaky b@stards launched a cowardly attack. There was a reason the US was still giving out Purple Hearts during the Gulf War that were made during WWII. Those DRAFTED CIVILIANS did not want to be there and if there is a choice between Japanese CIVILANS and American DRAFTED CIVILIANS dying, then I'm sorry but it is the American leadership's duty to save American lives. You would feel differently if you were one of the DRAFTED CIVILIANS putting your a$$ on the line. MackDumbA$$
 
The "millions of allied casualties" was post war bullshit. The planned invasion force was 760,000 against an armed force of 350,000 (plus civilians). From the book, "The Target Committee", the casualty estimate from meeting notes was 270,000 Americans killed, wounded or missing. The implied fatalities were 60,000-80,000. The numbers were revised upward slightly at a later meeting.

None of it really matters though. The bombs ended the war.
 
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The "millions of allied casualties" was post war bullshit. The planned invasion force was 760,000 against an armed force of 350,000 (plus civilians). From the book, "The Target Committee", the casualty estimate from meeting notes was 270,000 Americans killed, wounded or missing. The implied fatalities were 60,000-80,000. The numbers were revised upward slightly at a later meeting.

None of it really matters though. The bombs ended the war.


Multiple studies were done, from various points of view, with differing estimates.

Of these estimates, only Nimitz's included losses of the forces at sea, though kamikazes had inflicted 1.78 fatalities per kamikaze pilot in the Battle of Okinawa -- troop transports off Kyūshū would have been much more exposed.

Also, unbeknownst to the Americans, the Soviets were preparing to follow up their invasions of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands with an invasion of the island of Hokkaidō by the end of August

From a review...

A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost

  • 1.7 to 4 million American casualties, including
  • 400,000 to 800,000 fatalities, and
  • five to ten million Japanese fatalities.
The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.


Sources:

Allen, Thomas B. and Norman Polmar. Code-Name Downfall. (Simon & Schuster, 1995).

Drea, Edward J. "Japanese Preparations for the Defense of the Homeland & Intelligence Forecasting for the Invasion of Japan". In the Service of the Emperor: Essays on the Imperial Japanese Army (University of Nebraska Press, 1988).

Frank, Richard B. Downfall: The End of the Imperial Japanese Empire. New York: Random House, 1999).

Spector, Ronald H. Eagle against the Sun: the American War with Japan. (Random House, 1985).

Skates, John Ray. The Invasion of Japan: Alternative to the Bomb. (University of South Carolina Press, 1994).​
 
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Hey Felli,

You've never seen the actual brutality of war! I have and it ain't pretty!! When you're life and the life of your loved ones is on the line you'll bite scratch, kick gouge out someone's eyes and use a shovel to kill the enemy so the killing will STOP!

It's great to equivicate from an armchair but when you're in the mud and the blood and your buddies are dieing all around you I HOPE you would do anything to make it stop i.e. kill the bastard who is trying to inflict death on you and the ones you love!!
 
If this Monday morning QBing had any validity, Japan would have quit after the first nuke. Such a dumb assertion.

Quit after the first nuke???? The Japanese high command insisted on still duking it out even after the SECOND bomb was dropped. The emperor stepped in and called a halt to it all and even the high command couldn't countermand the emperor's orders.
 
Quit after the first nuke???? The Japanese high command insisted on still duking it out even after the SECOND bomb was dropped. The emperor stepped in and called a halt to it all and even the high command couldn't countermand the emperor's orders.
Yes, that's what I understand, as well. Here's a wiki link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyokuon-hōsō along with a cut-and-paste regarding the Emperor's speech accepting the terms of the Postam Declaration:

The speech was not broadcast directly, but was replayed from a phonograph recording made in the Tokyo Imperial Palace on either August 13 or 14, 1945. Many elements of the Imperial Japanese Army were extremely opposed to the idea that Hirohito was going to end the war, as they believed that this was dishonourable. Consequently, as many as one thousand officers raided the Imperial palace on the evening of August 14 to destroy the recording. The rebels were confused by the layout of the Imperial palace and were unable to find the recording, which had been hidden in a pile of documents. The recording was successfully smuggled out of the palace in a laundry basket of women's underwear and broadcast the following day, although another attempt was made to stop it from being played at the radio station.
 
Hey Felli,

Until you've dug your friend's arm out of the mud and put it on the strecher next to him knowing he would'nt make because he's bleeding out fast you can lecure me until then STFU you POS!!
 
Honestly Felli.

Anyone with a working mind "gets it".

It was horrific.

But don't ignore that as those "old men were walking in the park", there were also:

Young men preparing to make their Kamikaze runs.

Young men (6 to 10 divisions worth) preparing to dig in on Kyushu....since the Japanese (correctly) knew that Kyushu would have to be taken before an assault could begin on the northern areas (including Tokyo).

Japanese leaders trying to determine how many casualties the Allied forces could withstand.....until they (the Allies) could be convinced to negotiate an armistice - rather than a surrender.

As illustrated at Iwo Jima....Japanese leaders had long since conceded their inability to fully repel Allied invasion....and had instead adopted the strategy of "internal defense" to inflict maximum casualties.

Forces were building "command and control" bunkers in Nagano....so that the Japanese forces could be led throughout a long, costly domestic defense.

More and more aircraft were being assembled every day (to augment the 10,000 on hand) to be used in Kamikaze attacks against Allied invasion forces - including the targeting of transport ships carrying allied attack forces.

20-30 MILLION Japanese civilians (basically every able bodied man and woman) had been conscripted into a "Civilian Army"....lightly armed, but trained to die in the effort to maximize casualties to the attacking forces.


So....yes.....you got that.
Yes Thank you! Drunk is not a person with much grey matter.
 
But, yet you did.

So, do you deny CIVILIANS were living their lives like any HUMAN before they were KILLED?

Nowhere in my post did I say any of the crap most of you think or wrote. Fact is, we DID drop TWO bombs on civilians. If the lot of you can take off your American goggles just once, perhaps you'd see what we did in a different light. As one example, try talking to people about the USSR role in WWII and how they were battling (and winning) against the Nazis and immediately Americans bring up that they were Communists. Like the displaced farmer fighting for his life and his family gave a rats arse about communism or capitalism or socialism.

Americans feel JUSTIFIED in dropping the bombs. I can only imagine it makes swallowing the horror more palatable.

Keep JUSTIFYING crap like this and where does it end, Math dude? Do Japanese think this act was Justified?

Hey, on a side note, I see your Pope is now welcoming divorced families back into the Church. Numbers must be dwindling, eh?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/05/world/pope-divorced-catholics/
I wouldn't live my life worrying about whether or not the Japanese felt it was justified. It happened, it's over, move on. No need to keep apologizing for everything that's every happened and whether or not if offended anybody.
 
Women breastfeeding feeding their babies...

Old men walking in the park...

Children playing...

...in a split second they were all KILLED.

But, it saved American lives....BLAH BLAH BLAH.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-days-atomic-bomb-killed-140-000-people.html
If they didn't drop the bombs, there was going to be a major invasion of Japan. They figured there would be 1.5 million to 2 million Japanese deaths, and 250,000 to 500,000 American deaths. Also, Japan didn't surrender immediately after Hiroshima. 3 days later came Nagasaki and they still didn't surrender. Then there was a 1000 plane bombing attack on Tokyo with regular bombs(we didn't have any A-Bombs ready after the first 2) and then they surrendered, and that was a split decision among the Japanese military brass.
 
Back to Bataan

From his bedroom at night, little Rick would hear his father in the kitchen directly below, shouting in Japanese, barking sharp commands. He'd been out drinking again.
It was the early 1960s, and Joe Szczepanski was collecting a military pension and working at a shoe factory. After his shift, he'd stop at a bar just a block from the house.
He'd get home late, sit by himself and rant for an hour or more.
Rick, who was about 7, would have to get up for school the next morning, and the racket kept him awake. He knew it had something to do with POW camps during
World War II. His father had told him about beheadings.
''My dad was a little bit screwed up,'' Rick Szczepanski now says. ''He was suffering from post-traumatic stress, but nobody knew what that was at the time.
You never knew when he was going to fly off the handle. He didn't physically take it out on us; mentally, though, he did. It was hard for the whole family.''

A one-time amateur boxer from the coal country around Wilkes-Barre, Joe had stayed in the service after the war and would go on to another career, teaching Spanish
at Bethlehem Catholic High School. But he had a drinking problem and a hair-trigger temper that made life difficult for his wife and three sons.
As Rick got older, he found it easier to spend less time with his father than to put up with his combativeness. He knew some lurid details of his dad's existence as a
captive American soldier in the Far East. But he wouldn't gain a fuller understanding until after his father died in 2005.

Inspiration came from summarizing the 86-year-old's life for the obituary. The task launched a journey to his father's past that continues to this day. It is a quest that has
unmasked much of Joe Szczepanski's ordeal during the Bataan Death March and 31/2 years as a prisoner of the Japanese. And it has brought Rick Szczepanski of East Allen Township face to face with an Army veteran who was with Joe in two POW camps, including one in Japan where they slaved in a coal mine and saw the atomic bombing
of Nagasaki.

''Dad never really got over what took place in the prison camps, until in the mid-1980s he finally let go. It didn't bother him anymore,'' said Rick, who is 54 and owns
a mechanical contracting business. A sampling of the abuse his father suffered at Japanese hands appears in his 1947 testimony for the War Crimes Office investigating atrocities.
After his father died, Rick wrote to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis and was surprised to get a copy of the transcript. He hadn't known about the war crimes deposition. His father had never talked about it.
In his testimony, Joe Szczepanski told a counterintelligence agent about an incident that took place at Fukuoka Camp 17 on Japan's Kyushu island, where he was held
from mid-1943 until the war ended. A Japanese overseer in the mine ''reported me for not working hard enough. He and two guards beat me with their fists into unconsciousness, revived me with water and knocked me out a second time. They knocked out five teeth in the beating. They gave me the alternative of being shot or accepting the beating.''

A long walk in the sun

Joseph L. Szczepanski was born in 1918 to Ukrainian immigrants in Plymouth Township, Luzerne County. His parents, who would also have three daughters, were fairly well off. While his father worked in the coal mines, his mother made bootleg plum brandy. They built a nice home in Nanticoke, along with a rental house in the rear.
When Joe was 16, he lied about his age and joined the National Guard. The next year, he graduated from Nanticoke High School and worked in a silk mill. In 1938, now with the regular Army, he went to Hawaii and tangled with other soldiers in the boxing ring while serving in a chemical warfare battalion.
The decision that led him to Asia was his transfer to the Army Air Corps. He arrived at Luzon island, the Philippines, in mid-1940 and became a clerk at the Nichols Field air base outside Manila.

Two weeks after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Japanese troops swarmed Luzon's northern coast. They gradually overpowered American and Filipino forces, trapping them on the mountainous Bataan peninsula. Joe was there, helping to supply the soldiers in the fight.

With hunger, disease and hopelessness weighing on the Allies, their commander surrendered on April 9, 1942. The next day, Sgt. Szczepanski was taken prisoner on Bataan's southern tip. He was among 75,000 Allied captives the Japanese would start moving north to the captured Camp O'Donnell -- 85 miles, all but two dozen of them on foot.
This was the Bataan Death March.
Along the way, hundreds of Americans and thousands of Filipinos died from dehydration, exhaustion and exposure to the fierce sun and heat, and from being run over, shot, bayoneted, beheaded, beaten and buried alive.
I was just talking with my wife about your Dad, brother and you. My wife tells me she had a Joe Szczepanski for Spanish at Becahi in '71-72. She graduated from Becahi in 1974.
Now, for the rest of the story. My wife's cousin grew up on Jill Street in Bethlehem near where Gloria, RIck's wife grew up. Gloria's father, my wife's father, Joe Hudak, my wife's cousin's father, Jack Ulicny and his brother Paul Ulicny worked together at Sarco, Inc.
She is showing me her 1972 Becahi Yearbook with your Dad and brother Rick's picture in it. Gloria Hartzell went to Liberty.
Smaller world. I grew up in West Pittston, between Wilkes Barre and Scranton. My younger daughter, a CPA with Talen Energy in Allentown, went to McGowan School of Business at King's College
 
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I imagine the American generals sitting around a table, knowing that this bomb was on its way, looking at a satellite map of the world, zoomed in on Japan (because, in my imagination, that technology existed back then). They zoom in on the Enola Gay, and moments before the bomb is dropped, one of them says, "You've been messin' with the bull. Now here come the horns."

America did what they had to do to win the war. And it was a war they were drawn into - it wasn't a war of aggression. "Walk softly and carry a big stick," and all that...
Actually, America could have dropped the bomb on an island with some Japanese troops and have made the same impression.
 
Actually, America could have dropped the bomb on an island with some Japanese troops and have made the same impression.

Nonsense. The Japanese leaders didn't believe the first one when it was dropped on their own city--and when they did a significant amount wanted to continue to fight. Even after the second one.
 
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You do not know your history that well. Ask the Hungarians about Stalin. Or the East Germans (I know a couple).

There was consideration given to a demonstration. But they were not 100% sure the bomb would work--in action. They also weren't sure if the Japanese leaders would allow their people to believe it. They did not want to surrender after the first bomb.

"Army staff produced a document, "The Fundamental Policy to Be Followed Henceforth in the Conduct of the War," which stated that the Japanese people would fight to extinction rather than surrender. This policy was adopted by the Big Six. (Tōgō opposed it, while the other five supported it.)"

And as far as the others go, after Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, none of whom were religious (most were anti-religious) I'm not sure how anyone can figure that humans are basically "good", when left to their own devices.

Don't forget the Prague Spring in 1968.
 
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