Anybody prepaying their property taxes
- Thread starter Obliviax
- Start date
Just be aware that you do run some risk with this scenario. There is some potential for disallowance that the receipt by the tax office after 1-1-18 will invalidate your deductibility for 2017. I realize that you will immediately say that this should be no different than mailing your taxes on April 15th. But there is some discussion here. If possible and permitted, I would hand deliver and obtain stamped receipt from the tax office.
Can't you guys do it online? You get a receipt right away.
I would say yes if the recipient is deemed to have received unfettered access to the funds without limitations. I'm sure you understand the tax concept of constructive receipt. The recipient of the funds must have access to the funds without limitation so the issue becomes whether the recipient has such access in 17 (assuming cash basis taxpayer) with no limitations. If you paid via credit card online than clearly yes.
But mailing funds that the recipient has no access to in 2017 would support no constructive receipt by the recipient in 17.
It's a slippery slope for sure and I'm not sure that anyone would get into the weeds here trying to ascertain the proper matching principle. I'm just saying that to remove doubt, it would be advisable to hand deliver and receive stamped receipt of such payment in 2017.
And without saying, before getting to this point, one should determine if they are permitted to make payment in 17 as a starting point.
The county website reports that the clerks office is opening for extra hours on Sat. for this purpose. In the same report they say that you can pay online. I also read that the tax paid date is the post-mark on the envelope. Not the check clear date. I'm going to track this for the next day, as it is big news here, and decide whether to spend the extra hour to drive it into the downtown office.
https://www.monroecounty.gov/?q=node/9085
I'm not sure what is posted is what you are saying. The instructions merely state that they suggest using certified mail if payments are made via the post. It does not say that the post date is the date viewed as the payment date. The check clear notion is not controlling either. The fact that you don't cash a check until the following year that you have possession of in the earlier year does not mean that you don't have income in the earlier year under constructive receipt.
Again, if you make payment online, the recipient has access without limitations to the funds in 17. Not sure that mailing with cert establishes constructive receipt in 17 if the recipient does not physically receive the funds until 18. If you can validate that the recipient receives in 17 via cert, then clearly they have access to funds regardless of when the check is deposited by the recipient.
Check with your tax accountant but my professional advice with 35 years experience would be to leave no chance. I'd take the trip if it financially means a big benefit to you. Do I think the IRS gets into the weeds on this given the millions of people in high tax property states prepaying? No. Would I take the chance? No.
There is great irony in people who live in big govt states that require big tax bills doing everything they can to avoid paying taxes to fund the BIG federal government.
The Government has created Property Tax Madness 
Down here in Texas our obscenely high property taxes (2% of Market Value) are always due by October 1, 20XX but are not considered late until January 31, 20XY. For Federal Tax purposes, most everyone pays their taxes by the end of the calendar year.
January is the month the Dallas County Appraisal District sends out their "Revaluation Gestapo". They are armed with vests emblazoned with DCAD. They ring your doorbell and, if you happen to open the door, they pronounce where they're from and proudly exclaim that they are reappraising your property. Many times they ask to come inside or enter the backyard. If you deny such requests, you coincidentally get slapped with the highest valuation they can think of. Hence, my wife and I have a policy of never answering the doorbell during January.
Thankfully, we are allowed to protest our taxes in front of an "independent" Appraisal Review Board.
Per Texas "guidelines", the taxing authorities are supposed to only do "physical on-site re-appraisals" every 3-4 years, relying on CAMA (Computer Assisted Mass Appraisals) for the interim years. I find it highly suspect that DCAD conducts annual on-site appraisals in the wealthier neighborhoods, but not in the less-wealthy ones.
Sure we have no state income taxes, but the residential property tax appraisal / assessment process down here is as corrupt as a Louis Freeh "investigation".
Down here in Texas our obscenely high property taxes (2% of Market Value) are always due by October 1, 20XX but are not considered late until January 31, 20XY. For Federal Tax purposes, most everyone pays their taxes by the end of the calendar year.
January is the month the Dallas County Appraisal District sends out their "Revaluation Gestapo". They are armed with vests emblazoned with DCAD. They ring your doorbell and, if you happen to open the door, they pronounce where they're from and proudly exclaim that they are reappraising your property. Many times they ask to come inside or enter the backyard. If you deny such requests, you coincidentally get slapped with the highest valuation they can think of. Hence, my wife and I have a policy of never answering the doorbell during January.
Thankfully, we are allowed to protest our taxes in front of an "independent" Appraisal Review Board.
Per Texas "guidelines", the taxing authorities are supposed to only do "physical on-site re-appraisals" every 3-4 years, relying on CAMA (Computer Assisted Mass Appraisals) for the interim years. I find it highly suspect that DCAD conducts annual on-site appraisals in the wealthier neighborhoods, but not in the less-wealthy ones.
Sure we have no state income taxes, but the residential property tax appraisal / assessment process down here is as corrupt as a Louis Freeh "investigation".
Somebody has to pay for all these golf trips.
Don't believe it's necessarily big government states, but it's high cost of living areas.
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2% of market value is nothing compared to NY.The Government has created Property Tax Madness
Down here in Texas our obscenely high property taxes (2% of Market Value) are always due by October 1, 20XX but are not considered late until January 31, 20XY.
You are definitely right on one thing. The irs isn’t getting into the weeds on this. You have a check, you get it postmarked and you should get a receipt dated in 2017. Absent the receipt it’s still going to take an audit AND a very picky auditor to disallow the deduction.
Very broad and therefore inaccurate statement. Lived in great neighborhood in NC, they were less than 10k. Live in a nice neighborhood in Pa, still less than 10k.
Statement Based on my own perspectives based on where I live and have lived. And is pertinent to the conversation.
So not inaccurate it's quite accurate and spot on. But thanks for trying.
The Government has created Property Tax Madness
Down here in Texas our obscenely high property taxes (2% of Market Value) are always due by October 1, 20XX but are not considered late until January 31, 20XY. For Federal Tax purposes, most everyone pays their taxes by the end of the calendar year.
January is the month the Dallas County Appraisal District sends out their "Revaluation Gestapo". They are armed with vests emblazoned with DCAD. They ring your doorbell and, if you happen to open the door, they pronounce where they're from and proudly exclaim that they are reappraising your property. Many times they ask to come inside or enter the backyard. If you deny such requests, you coincidentally get slapped with the highest valuation they can think of. Hence, my wife and I have a policy of never answering the doorbell during January.
Thankfully, we are allowed to protest our taxes in front of an "independent" Appraisal Review Board.
Per Texas "guidelines", the taxing authorities are supposed to only do "physical on-site re-appraisals" every 3-4 years, relying on CAMA (Computer Assisted Mass Appraisals) for the interim years. I find it highly suspect that DCAD conducts annual on-site appraisals in the wealthier neighborhoods, but not in the less-wealthy ones.
Sure we have no state income taxes, but the residential property tax appraisal / assessment process down here is as corrupt as a Louis Freeh "investigation".
In Virginia where I live, they reassess every property every year with the use of some computer algorithm. Back during the dot com boom real estate prices were booming and the local govt realized they were "losing" all sorts of money (because allowing people to keep their money is considered "losing" it by the govt) so they figured out how to adjust them every year. It was great for the coffers until 2008, then not so much.
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What does having an algorithm have to do with a big government state? You're making zero sense. smh
Look at rates, not actual dollar amounts. States like NY/NJ/CA generally have high assessment rates, not just high costs of living/property values.
Again, what does this have to do with big state governments? You are veering way off course here.
WTF are you talking about? Your reading comprehension, once again, is near ZERO. Peetz was talking about Dallas County tax assessors knocking on doors in January to reassess property values and so he doesn't open his door in January. In VA, they reassess every year with the use of a computer algorithm so you can't avoid the adjusters if you wanted to. Assuming you now comprehend the exchange, I'll wait for your retraction/apology.
Seriously, These are remedial concepts. I don't think I, or anyone, can help you.
No retraction/apology. This has nothing to do with your exchange with PPB, you were responding to Obliviax. You need some comprehension lessons. If you don't like the way you're taxed in VA then freaking move to another state or STFU.
Many taxpayers who itemize for 2017 will no longer itemize in the future due to the large increase in the standard deduction. IRS will have its hands full developing new auditing algorithms that will work with the new tax law.
Not to mention the 10K limitation on any of these deductions. My state taxes are over 10K alone.
Unbelievable!
Also, I can't understand why seniors must pay their 'over age 65' property tax exemption upfront, only to get a refund check a couple months later. Seems to me the processing costs of handling it that would would outweigh the float.
Wow!
I'm guessing New Jersey. Regardless, you really should consider moving. Those high state and local taxes reflect inefficient (and possibly corrupt) state and local governments.
IRS confirms that you can only get a deduction on taxes that have been posted (my words).
You won't get a deduction on estimating your taxes for upcoming years.
You won't get a deduction on estimating your taxes for upcoming years.
Inefficiency and corruption are hallmarks of all governments and are not limited to New Jersey.
In case anyone is interested in this from a structural tax perspective, one cannot get a deduction unless the all events test has been satisfied. In easy language, the all events test for tax purposes requires one to establish that both a liability has been established as well as the liability being able to be reasonably ascertained with reasonable accuracy. Again, this is simple speak.
So, you could argue that both exist in that you know you will have a liability and simply use this years amount as proxy for next years amount.
But as of 17, you certainly can't establish that you have a liability for 18 at this point.
Just in case there are people who want geek speak as to how this actually works from a structural tax perspective.
Where I live and I think most people the local tax year does not coincide with the federal tax year. So you are diving into 18 "liability" (1st two quarters) for 17.
The key would be whether it's assessed in 17 for 18. At that point, both liability and amount can be established. But if you are trying to prepay something without an assessment and amount, then clearly all events test is not met.
I was just reading an email from an organization I am a member of for my job and the solicitor stated that you cannot pre pay taxes in PA. I scrolled through most of the posts and due to the bickering didn't notice if someone already posted something similar.
Our township posted on their web site that any pre-payment is not allowed per the laws of the state of PA. Yet we see other townships doing so. Not sure what to believe.
Just saw this house come on the market in Avon Lake, just outside Cleveland. It was built by Travis Hafner, a HR hitter for the Inidans ten years ago.
They are asking $4,000,000. Annual property taxes? $88,000.
They are asking $4,000,000. Annual property taxes? $88,000.
I could afford that house and pay those property taxes, but I choose not to be able to.
Here is a copy of part of the email I received...Under PA law (72 P.S. § 5511.15), school districts and tax collectors are not permitted to receive prepayment of taxes prior to the time the tax is levied-click here for statutory language. Therefore, as there is no tax tax levy for 2018-19 (and you are limited to a single levy which has already occurred!), pre-payment is not an option for PA taxpayers.
