"Average officiating" reigns yet again in B1G, especially the enforcement of passivity rules...errr

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

....actually I should say the complete non-enforcement of passivity rules in match after match after match including the Championship matches. How many stall calls were made against Sorenson, Brunson and Burak? Those three had maybe 30 seconds of non-passive, defense-only wrestling between them combined! I hope Cael makes it clear to the NCAA (the organizer of the National Tournament that the actual rules of wrestling need to be enforced as intended because PSU is hurt the most by these officials allowing wrestlers to blatantly abuse the passivity rules with impunity without fear of being penalized as they are supposed to be.).

 

[a_mshaffer]

yet the ref will call it after 5 seconds if you're winning in the 3rd...
- wish they would get the push out vs fleeing the mat stall rule right...

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

yet the ref will call it after 5 seconds if you're winning in the 3rd...
- wish they would get the push out vs fleeing the mat stall rule right...

No doubt. Wouldn't be adverse to see NCAA Folkstyle go to the old Freestyle rule requiring a wrestler to win by 3. Not only is it absurd to just ignore the passivity rules of wrestling, but for the b1g (and therefore the NCAA) to couple the absurd lack of enforcement of passivity rules with using the ability to "ride simply for the sake of riding" in OT as the "tie-breaker" and deciding factor in a match is a recipe for the crap we saw today in 1st Period after 1st Period after 1st Period (the longest and most important period in the match). For officials to be promoting and rewarding this crap, which is what they are doing when they call nothing, is beyond ridiculous - if they want to err, they should err on the side of REQUIRING EQUAL ACTION, AGGRESSION AND ATTACKS as the rules of wrestling require, they shouldn't be erring on the side of allowing stalling. Unless I wasn't counting correctly, there was not a single point awarded to anyone for stalling in any of the 3rd or 4th Session matches, let alone the Championship matches. Given what we saw in the Championship matches alone, it is utterly ridiculous that no stalling points were awarded because at least half the wrestlers did practically nothing but stall !

 

[21Guns]

Right now the biggest problem in the sport is the review ruling: Slimeballs like Mark Perry are running around dictating matches from the sideline by waving fake red flags 3 times a match to buy their wrestlers cheap lung timeouts.

 

[21Guns]

Again, it's not a wholesale thing about the stalling though: On one hand you have guys like Delgado who wouldn't wrestle if there was a gun at their head, but on the other hand you have guys like Chris Perry who is a damn good wrestler WHEN HE WANTS TO BE, but also spent entire matches stalling his ass off for 3 years.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Again, it's not a wholesale thing about the stalling though: On one hand you have guys like Delgado who wouldn't wrestle if there was a gun at their head, but on the other hand you have guys like Chris Perry who is a damn good wrestler WHEN HE WANTS TO BE, but also spent entire matches stalling his ass off for 3 years.

Yes, but the rules say you aren't supposed to be allowed to simply "not wrestle". If the official deems that your opponent is carrying all of the attacks and you are not doing anything but wrestling "defense-first" and only looking to counter, if anything, than the official is supposed to call you for stalling -- that's why they don't dock points on first call, it's supposed to be a warning so it should be the easiest one for the official to make because it gets his point across and doesn't cost the offending wrestler any points. That's why the official should make the call early, to get his point across and clearly let the wrestler know who he believes is primarily responsible. The wrestler responsible is not going to change what he is doing until the official makes it clear that he thinks he is responsible for the LACK OF ACTION AND SCORING. Far too many matches with little to no scoring and no action from too many wrestlers in the 1st Period - but especially absurd given the NCAA's beyond stupid tie-break rules in OT.

 

[PSUArnie]

Right now the biggest problem in the sport is the review ruling: Slimeballs like Mark Perry are running around dictating matches from the sideline by waving fake red flags 3 times a match to buy their wrestlers cheap lung timeouts.

 

[PSUArnie]

The most pathetic issue with the Perry theatrics is that he was having a hard time keeping his grin from showing. Dolt.

 

[jrd23psu]

Iowa (as a team) are the worst offenders of not wrestling in the conference and yet you hear their fans cry and whine about other wrestlers "stalling." You never hear them complain when their guys are running around the mat for entire matches without taking a shot, though.

 

[jack66]

Again, it's not a wholesale thing about the stalling though: On one hand you have guys like Delgado who wouldn't wrestle if there was a gun at their head, but on the other hand you have guys like Chris Perry who is a damn good wrestler WHEN HE WANTS TO BE, but also spent entire matches stalling his ass off for 3 years.

I think the 2 wrestlers you mention are a big reason some of the rules were changed. Delgado's ankle rides and Perry standing out of bounds were so egregious that something had to be done.

The thing is though, Perry would probably still do well under the new rules. He'd just have to wrestle. I see no way Delgado could have much success under the new rules ... if enforced there is no way he beats Nico.

 

[jack66]

Iowa (as a team) are the worst offenders of not wrestling in the conference and yet you hear their fans cry and whine about other wrestlers "stalling." You never hear them complain when their guys are running around the mat for entire matches without taking a shot, though.

Iowa wrestlers have it perfected to the point where it's hard to detect they are stalling. They don't really run away, they engage, but rather than trying to set up a shot, they hang on to prevent action. Nico hinted at how hard it was to get off a shot because Gilman was hanging on tight to his arms.

If the other wrestler is not getting off a lot of shots either, then stalling is not likely to get called.

Instead of making more rules to penalize passivity ... refs won't call it anyway ... I think rules should be made to reward aggressive wrestling. I would start with a 3 point TD.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Iowa wrestlers have it perfected to the point where it's hard to detect they are stalling. They don't really run away, they engage, but rather than trying to set up a shot, they hang on to prevent action. Nico hinted at how hard it was to get off a shot because Gilman was hanging on tight to his arms.

If the other wrestler is not getting off a lot of shots either, then stalling is not likely to get called.

Instead of making more rules to penalize passivity ... refs won't call it anyway ... I think rules should be made to reward aggressive wrestling. I would start with a 3 point TD.

Agree with that, but it should only be a 3-Point TD if you initiated "the finish" including a scramble (e.g., a TD off of a scramble initiated by a defensive move such as a sprawl or reach-over angle grab should remain only 2). BTW, did you notice that I-Mar was doing exactly what you are describing. As was NaTo. How many wrestlers did we witness engage in tie-up after tie-up with lots of heavy hand fighting and zero shots? Watching all of Iowa's, tO$U's and Illinois' top wrestlers is like watching bad HWT bouts anymore (in the case of tO$U, their HWT is the only one who looks like he is actually always attempting to score - you know, the way the wrestling rules say "its supposed to be" regardless of whether you are in neutral, top or bottom....you are supposed to be attempting to continuously improve your position and score regardless of which position you are in, which is what is so absurdly ridiculous about the Folkstyle "Riding Time Differential" tie-break rules in OT. It has nothing to do with determining who the "better wrestler" is.).

 

[ev_flores0331]

Iowa wrestlers have it perfected to the point where it's hard to detect they are stalling. They don't really run away, they engage, but rather than trying to set up a shot, they hang on to prevent action. Nico hinted at how hard it was to get off a shot because Gilman was hanging on tight to his arms.

If the other wrestler is not getting off a lot of shots either, then stalling is not likely to get called.

Instead of making more rules to penalize passivity ... refs won't call it anyway ... I think rules should be made to reward aggressive wrestling. I would start with a 3 point TD.

You're *supposed* to make it hard for your opponent to shoot on you, right?

I agree with the idea of a 3-point takedown, though. You listen to the Askren-Rowlands podcast, too?

 

[jrd23psu]

Iowa wrestlers have it perfected to the point where it's hard to detect they are stalling. They don't really run away, they engage, but rather than trying to set up a shot, they hang on to prevent action. Nico hinted at how hard it was to get off a shot because Gilman was hanging on tight to his arms.

If the other wrestler is not getting off a lot of shots either, then stalling is not likely to get called.

Instead of making more rules to penalize passivity ... refs won't call it anyway ... I think rules should be made to reward aggressive wrestling. I would start with a 3 point TD.

Iowa fans actually think that Nico is the stalling king. They accuse him of stalling for four years which is ridiculous. While Nico is not as good offensively as guys like Nolf or Nickal, he is always moving towards his opponent and is very active. Stalling is never a word I would have ever used to describe Nico.

The reality is that the Iowa fans you find on the internet are insanely jealous. It's almost incomprehensible to them that they aren't the best and that everybody doesn't love them. Despite the fact that PA has always been deeper than Iowa with high school talent they think that people in PA just discovered wrestling. Cael Sanderson is a better recruiter than TNT. It shows on the mat. Cael is a better coach than TNT, and it most definitely shows on the mat. Cael was a better wrestler than TNT, too. It really, really bothers Iowa fans that Cael Sanderson came to PSU and is wiping the floor with the rest of the wrestling world, including them.

 

[jack66]

You're *supposed* to make it hard for your opponent to shoot on you, right?

I agree with the idea of a 3-point takedown, though. You listen to the Askren-Rowlands podcast, too?

At the same time you should be working to set up a shot. That is where there is a fine line. That is where some wrestlers chose to defend rather than attack.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

You're *supposed* to make it hard for your opponent to shoot on you, right?

I agree with the idea of a 3-point takedown, though. You listen to the Askren-Rowlands podcast, too?

Yes, but you aren't "supposed" to be able to wrestle "defensively" for an entire 1st Period, let alone an entire match, whenever in the neutral position. Frankly, the official should make it clear to the wrestler he won't stand for it by calling stalemates quicker on ties by the offending wrestler and then verbally telling him that he is going to call stalling if he doesn't start doing something other than what he is doing - e.g., make a shot or some type of offensive move.

 

[BDB57]

I have recently watched matches from the 80's and 90"s. After watching it its mind boggling how we ever got to this point where non-action is tolerated.

two things stuck out. 1) two wrestlers not making actual shots were issued a double stall and 2) a wrestler on all 4s was dinged for stalling because he was not actively attempting to wrestle his way off the bottom.