Back to Square Zero - Men’s Hoops
- Thread starter THEECOACH
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My son and I talked about this during the game. One thing we came up with is skipping classes already. Don't know, just a guess.
OL
Whatever the reason, should Chambers have ignored the academic transgressions so that we might have beaten indiana? Is that how it works at Penn State?
Missing the point BOB - school started day before. “ Academic Reasons” seems like a smokescreen
Not that I don't think it's time for Chambers to go but...Since when does a coach have to tell everyone what the real reason is. Is it best to embarrass the kid in the media and therefore cause the kid to resent you?
I'm a big Pat Chambers fan, but I believe he has lost this team. 3 starters have been suspended at some point this season, one of them, Carr, a team leader. If he can't keep his guys focused and engaged, he needs to go. His in game coaching has been weak. I really like the guy and wish he would be successful but he just can't seem to get up the hill.
I believe if there isn't change, I believe we will see a few transfers at seasons end.
I believe if there isn't change, I believe we will see a few transfers at seasons end.
Whether or not Chambers has outstayed his welcome... sitting Reaves for academic reasons is a point in the "lets keep Chambers" column for me.
How about an "Incomplete" carried over from the previous term that needed to be cleared?
I’m missing nothing. There was a semester before this one.
What are you coach of? Underwear changing?
Chambers could have gone with the old “violation of team rules”. Maybe, just maybe, it’s academics and not something convoluted.
Agree, but I don't see us getting a good name coach to come here for reasons I've beat to death in the past. Best to stick with him for now and see if he at least can continue to recruit and then hope that things come together for a year or two.
You think transfers are more likely if we keep Chambers than if we get rid of him and bring in someone new?
For me, transfers (and the incoming class) would be about the biggest reason to keep him more than a reason to get rid of him.
I agree with all of you on this. Even the ones I disagree with. However, I believe we are reaching a tipping point with athletes where they may have to designate as being in student oriented curriculum or designate as being in an athlete curriculum so that different standards apply. Some of these kids hope to parlay their college into a professional career and they should be permitted to pursue that interest. PSU does as well as anyone at keeping the Student/athlete ideal alive. Just that I see it ending. Lots of schools have de-emphasized their sports programs while others (Alabama, Ohio State for example) have moved in another direction.
Bingo. As I'm sure you know Art, hat's EXACTLY how the eligibility rules work. A student athlete in the middle of an academic year is required to have passed six credits from one semester to the next in order to maintain his academic eligibility. Failure to pass those six credits results in an ineligibility that begins on the first day of the next semester. Up until the first day of classes, the student athlete remains eligible to practice and compete with the team. If Reaves has an incomplete or deferred grade and didn't pass six credits for last semester, he would have become ineligible starting this past Monday. So he could have played against Northwestern last Friday but not Indiana on Tuesday.
It would have been out of Chambers hands. Reeves would be ineligible by NCAA rule.
I often think we'd have a better society if the NBA and NFL didn't exist to distract young men from valuing academics as the path forward in American life. But since they do exist and the lucre of pro football and pro basketball does distract young men, it would be better if they could sign with a minor league team coming out of high school (a la MLB) and not waste the valuable, taxpayer-fueled resources of our institutions of higher education.
It is insane that we require 18-year old NBA and NFL aspirants to go to college to pursue what is essentially a trade skill. We don't do that in any other sports.
It is insane that we require 18-year old NBA and NFL aspirants to go to college to pursue what is essentially a trade skill. We don't do that in any other sports.
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In all likelihood, Chambers had no choice. As Art suggests, I'm betting that Reeves is ineligible by NCAA rule and that Reeves is busy trying to get a deferred grade completed or a grade changed.
Am I the only one that finds six credits per semester to be a laughable measure of academic progression?
Carr doesn’t seem to be playing as well since the suspension either. I was a big Chambers fan up until this year, but the Rider loss was inexcusable and they seem to be the same team they were last year. Their record in the non conference schedule has been piss poor every year. They have some good players (not great) but have little depth. Unless they make a run of 6-7 games in a row this year he should be gone.
You must be a politician.
The "we" is the NFL and the NBA, and the whores who run our institutions of higher learning are more than happy to abet them for the lucre that they receive in return for providing a free minor league for the pros.
You must be a politician.
Nope. Semi retired lawyer and current instructor of Modern European History.
It's not simply six credits per semester. It's six credits for the LAST semester. There are several other hurdles that have to be met along the way.
For example:
Student athletes have to complete 24 credits during their freshman year to be eligible as a sophomore.
Student athletes have to complete 18 credits during every academic year (and you can't make it up over the summer if you screw up). So if an athlete squeaks by with just six credits in one semester, he's going to have to pull down 12 during the next one to make the full year hurdle.
To be eligible for his junior year, a student athlete must have complete 40% of his degree requirements for his major - so you just can't take basket weaving classes. Senior year requires 60% completion of his degree requirements. Fifth year requires 80%.
For Reaves to be facing an academic issue mid-year, it's highly likely that the problem is the six credits for the previous semester.
I see big name coaches just beating the door down trying to get the BB job at PSU. Yeah right!
I understood full well that it was six credits from the previous semester. It is still a pathetic minimum standard of academic progress. 12 credits per semester is the minimum for full time student enrollment. So if an athlete squeaks by in one semester, Oh My GOD, they have to pass T-W-E-L-V-E credits the following semester! If a student can't pass twelve credits in a semester as a full time student, they shouldn't be in college.
By year/academic year to complete 18 credits, does that include the Summer? That's half time enrollment. Even if it is just Spring & Fall to complete 18 credits, that is still LESS than the minimum 12 credits per semester to be considered a full time student.
24 credits during their Freshman year is the bare minimum for a full time student. Less than full time if they also get the Summer to complete the 24.
The 40%, 60% & 80% progress marks are also low standards, although not as laughable as the others.
If I were king of the NCAA, the first measure that I would enact would be that the number of practice, training, team meetings and game hours can not exceed the number of credits hours that an athlete is enrolled in. If a kid is only enrolled in 12 credits, they can only practice, train, play, etc. 12 hours a week.
The second measure would be that EVERY student has to be enrolled in a full time course load for the Fall & Spring semesters, or whatever the equivalent is for schools on other semester patterns. Summer classes would not be required, but if they are participating in any official team training they need to be taking classes and their training hours can not exceed their credit hours.
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I am a firm believer that academics are number 1, to suggest we dummy down academic requirements further is unbelievable. The NCAA has manipulated these standards enough to ensure their cash flow is not compromised. Individuals that have the mentality "they ain't play school" should not be in college playing basketball or any other sport with scholarship money. Allow for these kids to pursue the Pro's out of High school and provide Education money to those who are deserving vs the waste and abuse that occurs now. Do we really need basketball at Penn State? I would venture to say its a drain on tax payers money. Get rid of basketball.
THEECOACH you may have hit the nail on the head with your "smoke screen" observation. Talk around PSU people in the DMV is that "smoke" is a regular extra curricular activity with this team.
It reads like you might be confusing the number of credits that a student-athlete must take with the number that they must pass. Student-athletes are no different than normal students. They must meet EVERY academic criteria that a normal student does in order to remain in school. They don't get any breaks. The university has specific GPA requirements that students must meet in order to stay in school. Student-athletes must meet those requirements just like every other student. The minimum credit requirements put in place by the NCAA are on top any normal academic requirements that any school has.
You can't use the summer to make up for a deficiency in your previous fall/spring 24 credit requirement..
You can use the summer to take courses that will count toward the progress toward your degree criteria.
Every student-athlete must be enrolled in a full time course load for Fall and Spring. Basketball and football players also need to be enrolled in summer classes (albeit not full time) to participate in summer training activities. Their course load must be a minimum of three credit hours and their training hours are limited to eight hours per week (no more than two hours of which can be skill instruction). Summer training is also limited to a total of eight weeks duration.
Who suggested dumbing down any standards? Those NCAA standards aren't in lieu of school standards. They are on top of them. They are put in place in order to establish a minimum that all schools must meet. Every student-athlete must meet the individual eligibility requirements that are in place at their particular school. So every Penn State athlete must meet the minimum standards that PSU has in place for all of their students. The NCAA standards are there so that there is some sort of level playing field that all schools must meet.
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You are certainly correct. It brings in around $12M in revenue and $6M in profit every year.
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2016/06/who_are_the_most_and_least_pro.html
The elephant in the room is......did Chambers know Reeves was headed toward ineligibility?......if he did......why did Reeves play vs Northwestern?.......and we ALL know the answer to that......
No, I do understand that it is credits passed.
Is it passing 24 or 18 credits in the Fall & Spring Semester? Or does the 24 credits only apply to Frosh?
Passing 24 credits in two semesters is a low standard. Passing 18 credits in two semesters is an extremely low standard. The standard of 'must pass six credits in the Fall' is a laughably low standard. That means that you can fail half of your classes, possibly more than half, and still be eligible in the Spring.
I'll say it again. If a full time student is unable to pass at least 12 credits in a semester, they should not be in college. Apparently, after your first year, you only have to pass 9 credits per semester to remain eligible with the NCAA.
And yes, I know that some majors and some schools have higher standards. I also know that many athletes are doing well as students. However, these NCAA minimum standards are pathetic.
From a distance it appears that there is no real senior leadership within the team. You look at the football team, hockey team, WVB and other teams on campus and you can see the more senior and/or star players being mentors, leaders, helping teach and coach. The men's BB teams seems like just a bunch of guys other there trying to give 90%.
