Be honest with your assessments getting to Elite status.

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

 

[BrucePa]

The common characteristics of "elite" football programs is that they emphasize football over academics. They don't pretend to attract student-athletes. And they "bend the rules" to make sure that compensation for the athlete and his family is assured. That's how you attract 5* athletes and build football powerhouses.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

The common characteristics of "elite" football programs is that they emphasize football over academics. They don't pretend to attract student-athletes. And they "bend the rules" to make sure that compensation for the athlete and his family is assured. That's how you attract 5* athletes and build football powerhouses.

Agreed, but many non elite programs do ehat the, so called, elite programs do and they are breaking into the ring of the CFA dwellers.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The common characteristics of "elite" football programs is that they emphasize football over academics. They don't pretend to attract student-athletes. And they "bend the rules" to make sure that compensation for the athlete and his family is assured. That's how you attract 5* athletes and build football powerhouses.

Right? The AD at Clemson asks himself one question any time he has to make a decision - 'Does this help Clemson football?'. If it doesn't, he probably doesn't do it.

 

[KanePoster]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

I don't understand the OP. Those 3 teams are always in because they're the 3 best teams year in and year out.

I would prefer 8 teams, but .........

Do I think we can be elite (knock Ohio State off from #1 into a #1A and #1B status or even knock them down to #2? No, it doesn't seem likely.

 

[Connorpozlee]

If we’re being completely honest, cheating a lot would make a big difference. Do the best players from around the country all just happen to want to go to Tuscaloosa, AL or Columbus, OH, etc....? If we’re using common sense we have to acknowledge that as a factor in reaching “elite” status. And after what the NCAA did to Penn State 9 years ago, I’m fine with it if that’s the direction we go. But I don’t think it’s going to happen otherwise.

 

[KC-KS-Lion]

Would have been a much different game if Micah and Journey (and even Luketa) were out there, so other non-elite programs can compete with the elites, maybe not consistently or with less tolerance for bad luck. I'm not so torn between NFL factory and the other extreme, I just think Penn State can do so much better with teaching the basics and adding a little more creativity without being so cute and transparent as slotting the second string quarterback as a receiver.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

I don't understand the OP. Those 3 teams are always in because they're the 3 best teams year in and year out.

I would prefer 8 teams, but .........

Do I think we can be elite (knock Ohio State off from #1 into a #1A and #1B status or even knock them down to #2? No, it doesn't seem likely.

Then take a remedial reading course or two and a basic logic class and try again.

 

[KanePoster]

Then take a remedial reading course or two and a basic logic class and try again.

Sigh. I don't know what you mean by the NCAA fixing it.

Are you saying they're cheating (they probably are bending the rules, or at least not working in the spirit of college football)?

What do you want the ncaa to do?

 

[CoolBean]

Sigh. I don't know what you mean by the NCAA fixing it.

Are you saying they're cheating (they probably are bending the rules, or at least not working in the spirit of college football)?

What do you want the ncaa to do?

64 teams tourney

 

[Grass]

I think Bama and OSU actually have very good graduation rates for their players. Clemson might be up there also.

https://rolltide.com/news/2019/11/1...rns-2019-afca-academic-achievement-award.aspx

 

[BiochemPSU]

I think it is a fair question to ask why a state like California, Florida, and Texas, which manufacture local 5 star guys and have high profile programs in-state with huge populations and large metropolitan areas have done poorly under this new playoff structure since 2014. Suddenly every 18 year-old across the country wants to go to Alabama, South Carolina, Oklahoma, and Ohio? Please. That list sounds like the worst road trip in the history of mankind.

 

[Sooner Lion]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

I think the playoff system is the problem. Only four teams get into the playoff. Only a handful of teams have made the playoff in the first six years. Alabama and Clemson have been there five times. Oklahoma four out of six. Ohio State three out of six. These teams have a significant recruiting advantage over the other schools because they are the talk of college football for the entire month of December. Plus, they have the advantage of saying to the recruits "You want to go to the playoffs, come here."

Screw the conference championship games and screw the bowls. The only way we will get any type of parity in college football is with a 16 team playoff beginning the first week in December.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

I think the playoff system is the problem. Only four teams get into the playoff. Only a handful of teams have made the playoff in the first six years. Alabama and Clemson have been there five times. Oklahoma four out of six. Ohio State three out of six. These teams have a significant recruiting advantage over the other schools because they are the talk of college football for the entire month of December. Plus, they have the advantage of saying to the recruits "You want to go to the playoffs, come here."

Screw the conference championship games and screw the bowls. The only way we will get any type of parity in college football is with a 16 team playoff beginning the first week in December.

Parity wasn't the problem yesterday. That game should have been close, if not a win.

Coming out flat (again), coming out unprepared, playing with half an offense (the wrong offense), and making stupid decisions (again), has nothing to do with parity or having enough good players.

 

[JoeBot409]

Need to be better on both lines. Those are the two biggest weaknesses on the team. Seven years and two recruiting cycles, there are no excuses for the line to be this bad.

 

[PSULionsDub]

We will not get to Elite status under James Franklin. He is just not a good enough football coach to get us to be an elite team. And our teams are often unprepared, undisciplined, and he does not treat Penn State Football like a business, and you better believe the Ohio States, Alabama’s, Clemson’s, and Georgia’s treat football like a business which is why they consistently get the top players in the country.

 

[Connorpozlee]

We will not get to Elite status under James Franklin. He is just not a good enough football coach to get us to be an elite team. And our teams are often unprepared, undisciplined, and he does not treat Penn State Football like a business, and you better believe the Ohio States, Alabama’s, Clemson’s, and Georgia’s treat football like a business which is why they consistently get the top players in the country.

I think this is largely fair. Is the fan base hungry enough to win to be willing to make it a business like these other schools you mentioned do?

 

[katchthis]

_ L_T_ CJF- Can I buy a vowel ?

 

[Art]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

CFA has been dead for over 20 years. The Power 5 rule college football and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it. If it tries, it will fvck it up even more.

The teams that are "elite" are the ones with the best coaches. Right now there are four, maybe five, at the top of the heap. Until a program has a coach in that class, it ain't gettin' elite. The rest is all excuses.

 

[ftlpsu]

CFA has been dead for over 20 years. The Power 5 rule college football and there is nothing the NCAA can do about it. If it tries, it will fvck it up even more.

The teams that are "elite" are the ones with the best coaches. Right now there are four, maybe five, at the top of the heap. Until a program has a coach in that class, it ain't gettin' elite. The rest is all excuses.

Dead On post.

Example==Urban Meyer comes back and he puts that program in the Top 5 within 2 seasons.

 

[Art]

I think this is largely fair. Is the fan base hungry enough to win to be willing to make it a business like these other schools you mentioned do?

Tend to agree with this evaluation, but I don't think the fan base has all that much to do with it. Now an AD who knew how to properly direct resources would be a major step in the right direction.

 

[CaryPSU]

_ L_T_ CJF- Can I buy a vowel ?

I’ll buy an E, please

 

[danvillenit]

Parity wasn't the problem yesterday. That game should have been close, if not a win.

Coming out flat (again), coming out unprepared, playing with half an offense (the wrong offense), and making stupid decisions (again), has nothing to do with parity or having enough good players.

Why should the game be close when the OSU roster is much more talented then the PSU roster? A win? Under what circumstance should we have won that game.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

To do it in our region, it would take a Matt Rhule type coach and consistent top 10-15 classes. Land a game-changer QB every so often.
I saw what Rhule did at Baylor with lesser talent. His kids played hard, fast and tough. They played with discipline.

We aren’t in a sweet spot for talent and we won’t take the football factory route, so just loading up on 5 stars won’t happen.

 

[danvillenit]

To do it in our region, it would take a Matt Rhule type coach and consistent top 10-15 classes. Land a game-changer QB every so often.
I saw what Rhule did at Baylor with lesser talent. His kids played hard, fast and tough. They played with discipline.

We aren’t in a sweet spot for talent and we won’t take the football factory route, so just loading up on 5 stars won’t happen.

Baylor didn’t sniff elite which is what we are talking about

 

[Art]

[

Dead On post.

Example==Urban Meyer comes back and he puts that program in the Top 5 within 2 seasons.

To do it in our region, it would take a Matt Rhule type coach and consistent top 10-15 classes. Land a game-changer QB every so often.
I saw what Rhule did at Baylor with lesser talent. His kids played hard, fast and tough. They played with discipline.

We aren’t in a sweet spot for talent and we won’t take the football factory route, so just loading up on 5 stars won’t happen.

Both of you are thinking in the right direction. Meyer was clearly an elite coach at the college level. I like what I see of Rhule, but there isn't a sufficient body of evidence to canonize him, yet.

The difficulty that either of those guys (and even Saban and Dabo) would have at PSU is dealing with an administration that is all over the place when it comes to running an athletic department. Would drive them nuts and could derail any hope of achieving elite status.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Baylor didn’t sniff elite which is what we are talking about

He took a team to 11-1 two years after they were 1-11 and reeling from a very ugly scandal, at an ugly campus, with a program with almost no history. He was a miracle worker - unless you live down here, you have no idea how shitty Waco is.

Do you think great coaches just come out of the womb? Did Saban turn MSU into an elite? No, but he had them on the right trajectory.

 

[Art]

Baylor didn’t sniff elite which is what we are talking about

Rhule started with a major handicap when compared to the situation that any other coach who might be in the elite class inherited when he took over his program. The work he did at Baylor was exceptional and David Tepper don't hire no nimrods. Is he an elite coach? Not yet, but maybe.

 

[ftlpsu]

So right now I think Dabo is the only non X's and O's great coach that is obviously successful....The others are all very strong X's and O's guys. I think JF is/was similar to Dabo high energy--pro player--rah rah--type. Difference was Dabo took the lighting in the bottle players he had and parlayed it. And yes AGREE 100% his Administration got out of his way so to speak. We have had numerous posts about what 5-7 games we lost over the last 4 years that would have game changed our program....sad dont think we are recovering from this one.

 

[Art]

He took a team to 11-1 two years after they were 1-11 and reeling from a very ugly scandal, at an ugly campus, with a program with almost no history. He was a miracle worker - unless you live down here, you have no idea how shitty Waco is.

Do you think great coaches just come out of the womb? Did Saban turn MSU into an elite? No, but he had them on the right trajectory.

Yup, Saban inherited an MSU program under sanctions. But his experience there makes me wonder how he would have progressed had he stayed. No sufficiently familiar with the environment in East Lansing to take a guess, but I'm not sure it was a lock. Now LSU and Alabama are different stories.

 

[Mufasa94]

He took a team to 11-1 two years after they were 1-11

Temporarily 11-1 with their best win being over a team that finished with with 5 losses. They finished at 11-3 after losing 2 when competition got tougher again. He wasn’t there yet.

There are only the few Dabo, Saban, and Meyer in that echelon. Day isn’t there yet, and I think he screwed up tOSUs game with Clemson last year.

 

[shifix]

I’m going to hang around to see what will end up happening. A lot of great questions and very little answers.
I always tend to look at key acquisitions in talent which change the trajectory of a program.

 

[Sooner Lion]

He took a team to 11-1 two years after they were 1-11 and reeling from a very ugly scandal, at an ugly campus, with a program with almost no history. He was a miracle worker - unless you live down here, you have no idea how shitty Waco is.

Do you think great coaches just come out of the womb? Did Saban turn MSU into an elite? No, but he had them on the right trajectory.

Ugly campus? Baylor is gorgeous.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Ugly campus? Baylor is gorgeous.

There’s no defending Waco though. Please don’t try

 

[RU31trap]

I watched the entire game and I felt there was a big disparity in size, speed and brute strength, especially when you compare both O-lines and D-lines. Still, Penn State was in the game. Let’s be honest just for a moment and question why elite talent year after year gravitates to the same 5 to 7 teams. Week after week college football match ups take on a David and Goliath atmosphere where the outcome is predictable, unfair and in some cases embarrassing. Yes, of course great coaching helps but why do 95% of these great coaches almost always end up at Football factories? Is it because donors are able to land a half dozen 5 star athletes and the institution is willing to turn a blind eye? JMHO

 

[Sooner Lion]

There’s no defending Waco though. Please don’t try

You did not say ugly town. You said ugly campus. Baylor campus is right up there with Ole Miss.

 

[KanePoster]

We can look for an "elite coach", but remember............it might get better, but it might get much, much worse.

Pitt thought they were on their way to 1976 glory when they got rid of Wannstadt. Not saying we aren't a stronger program than Pitt, just saying that it can be worse.

 

[Kiber]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

I think you pretty much nailed it. The 4-team CFP has basically created a pretty unbalanced world of college football. You aid it well, it is "3 teams + 1 occasional visitor". Yes, on a given year a team can have EVERYTHING align just right -- like LSU last year -- and crash the party. LSU had like 25 Seniors, a 5th year SR QB playing out of his mind, a future NFL Offensive Coordinator installing a new offense.... But year in and year out it's the top 3 teams and a huge separation down to the 4th team.

Look at this year. You have the same 3 teams. ... Who is #4.?? Notre Dame? Oregon?? Cincy?? Georgia?? Florida?? Would anyone really give any of those teams a realistic shot of winning 2 games in a 4-team CFP vs. the likes of Ohio St, Clemson & Bama???

The worst part is, that with those 3 teams having elevated to their own tier group, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy that they will continue to be in the CFP as they keep getting the best 5* talent...... because they can sell kids they always make the 4 team CFP .... it's a self-feeding cycle.

So how do we break that cycle????

I know we will not go "backwards". Typically things do not "go backwards". And I hate to admit this, but I believe way back in the 90's when there was talk about the BCS System ... which eventually evolved into the the CFP ... Herbstreit was right when he was advocating for his "Plus 1" system. If I re-call Herbstreit's opinion was to leave the Bowl System as it it, but at the end of the bowl games match up the 2 top teams in a "plus 1" game. With hindsight, I think now this would have been the best move.
1. The bowls which are now totally ruined, would have remained relevant
2. You would never know from year to year who would be the two "plus 1" teams. I think under that plus 1 system, you would not have had 3 teams create a monopoly on college football power.

 

[heckmans]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

I like Franklin, but Franklin needs to become a better "football" coach. At this time, he is Steve Spurrier...wins on talent, but gets outcoached and loses against teams with similar talent.
PSU will never be "elite" until the staff performs as well as the opponents on the other sideline.

 

[Kiber]

We can look for an "elite coach", but remember............it might get better, but it might get much, much worse.

Pitt thought they were on their way to 1976 glory when they got rid of Wannstadt. Not saying we aren't a stronger program than Pitt, just saying that it can be worse.

The people who keep wanting to fire Franklin under the premise that we will go out and simply hire a coach who can get us to elite are living in fantasy land. Just a few variables to consider:

1. "Centre County/State College" are not exactly for everyone. We all may love State College ON A VISIT, but how many of us remained to live in State College after we graduated??? Most see State College as a pretty place to visit but not a great place to live. Take OB as an example. OB is on record as saying he did not exactly like it, did not see himself staying long AND his wife hated it. Remember, the Head Coach is distracted with working 20-hour days and on the road... but the coaches wife & children are in State College 24/7/365.... Many wife's are not signing on for a life in Centre County.

2. You do not have an Admin willing to pay the $$$$ to keep up with the elite. It's really nice to say we WANT to be elite. But does our Admin have the commitment to be elite??? Each & every year Franklin has to fight for enough budget to get a new paint job on Lasch, or new turf on a practice field. You think Saban, Dabo and Meyer/Day have to have these yearly fights for $$$ from Bama, Clemson & Ohio State boards???? So while Franklin is told the upgrades to Lasch will come as part of a 10-year master plan and after money is spent to upgrade the natatorium and build a museum for Barron.... Saban, Dabo and Day are getting $100 million dollar upgrades that include lazy rivers, wiffle ball fields, sliding boards, putt-putt courses, individual private message chairs, and world class gaming centers..... at their facilities.

3. PA is no longer a top 10 producer of D1 high school talent. Thru the 60s-90s Penn State had the luxury of being the power program in a State that produced top 10 quantities of D1 talent. It's a huge advantage to have a ton of big time D1 talent within a 100-200 mile radius of your campus. The WPIAL alone produced 30-40 big time D1 football players every year. Those numbers have dwindled yearly. PA is now out of the top 10 for D1 talent. States like Georgia, Louisiana, Miss, TN, North Carolina.... have blown past PA.

So before we all run Franklin out of town. Consider these variables. Then tell me WHO are we hiring?