Be honest with your assessments getting to Elite status.

[psu7113]

I think Bama and OSU actually have very good graduation rates for their players. Clemson might be up there also.

https://rolltide.com/news/2019/11/1...rns-2019-afca-academic-achievement-award.aspx

As if statistics can’t be massaged and football majors can’t be created. I don’t pretend that PSU has a team full of Rhodes Scholarship recipients, but I do believe that the average PSU player is expected to graduate in a legitimate major and to meet academic standards which exceed the NCAA minimum.

 

[psu7113]

Dead On post.

Example==Urban Meyer comes back and he puts that program in the Top 5 within 2 seasons.

Ok, I ‘ll play. If Urban Meyer had come to Penn State rather than OSU would he have eventually built Penn State into a program equal to OSU’s? I say no, because the rosters at the current top programs have (some) kids that PSU either wouldn’t take or couldn’t pay. Don’t get me wrong, PSU has a very good program and the potential to become a great one. However, in the current environment (4 team play-off, liberal transfer rules, players believing they should be paid for the millions in revenue there efforts generate), I think you need to basically sell your soul to the devil to make the leap to perennially elite. I don’t think the PSU administration wants to do that. I am not so sure I want them to either.

 

[SLion]

"Gave it to Shoop". That's a bit deceiving. First of all, EVERY coach... EVERY coach ... has the ability to pick their own staff. Shoop was his Defensive Coord at Vandy where they just set records for wins. I believe before Franklin & his staff arrived in Nashville, Vandy won 9-games in a season like 1 time in 100 years. Then under Franklin & Staff they won 9-games in like 3 seasons and went to bowl games every year.... something that really is not done at Vandy .... And again, Shoop was his DC thru that success. So "gave it to Shoop". No, Franklin did what about 99% of other coaches do and that is try to bring with them as many of their coaches as possible that made them successful.

And as far as DL Coach. Again, thru the success they achieved at Vandy, Sean Spencer was his DL Coach. Franklin "played nice", and instead of insisting on the DL Coach he really wanted and really trusted, he played nice and agreed to first offer it to St. Johnson.

Agree this is hindsight. CJF did what coaches normally do but he poorly evaluated Shoops commitment if Bob started putting feelers out 1.5 years into his job. LJ Sr was "the" premier recruiter in DC/MD and had a very strong track record of producing NFL players. He had hard loyalty to PSU but got demotion offer which forced him out. Shoop had absolutely zero care for PSU and rubbed face in it on way out. OSU scoops LJ up and it has hurt us every year. Hindsight yes but that is how it played out. Somehow Fuente at VT was able to keep Bud Foster (until he retired this year) so it can be done during regime changes.

 

[SLion]

Speaking of Shoop, not that I wish ill will but it has not exactly turned out great for him.

"Bob Shoop is not working with the team in an on-field coaching capacity at this time," UM football spokesman Dave Ablauf said in a statement Monday. "He is performing team-related duties remotely. In consideration of his privacy interests, we will have no further comment."

 

[Kiber]

Agree this is hindsight. CJF did what coaches normally do but he poorly evaluated Schoops commitment if Bob started putting feelers out 1.5 years into his job. LJ Sr was "the" premier recruiter in DC/MD and had a very strong track record of producing NFL players. He had hard loyalty to PSU but got demotion offer which forced him out. Schoop had absolutely zero care for PSU. OSU scoops LJ up and it has hurt us every year. Hindsight yes but that is how it played out.

Yes. BUt again, LJs "demotion" was not being made the DC. Like him or not, Shoop was Franklin's DC at Vandy. They worked together & achieved success together. I believe Shoop was also a Pittsburgh guy with his roots, and Sean Spencer was a good recruiter himself. So using hindsight, the decision Franklin had was to be loyal to HIS guys: 1 guy was his DC and had Pittsburgh ties for recruiting, the other guy was personable Sean Spencer who was also a good recruiter. So it was Shoop + Spencer vs. LJ. Remember, these coaches build relationships and get comfortable with each other. Franklin had no previous relationship with LJ.

 

[Kiber]

Speaking of Shoop, not that I wish ill will but it has not exactly turned out great for him.

"Bob Shoop is not working with the team in an on-field coaching capacity at this time," UM football spokesman Dave Ablauf said in a statement Monday. "He is performing team-related duties remotely. In consideration of his privacy interests, we will have no further comment."

Yea, ironic. If I re-call, the rumors circulating were that Shoop's wife hated State College and forced him to seek other jobs. When TN offered, it was her chance to get back closer to Nashville and back to TN.... since then he was fired at Tenn and then had to live in Starkville, MS (not great) and is now up in Ann Arbor, MI..... so wifey-poo forced an exit from State College and her 'prize' has been living in Stark-vegas and Ann Arbor.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Agree this is hindsight. CJF did what coaches normally do but he poorly evaluated Shoops commitment if Bob started putting feelers out 1.5 years into his job. LJ Sr was "the" premier recruiter in DC/MD and had a very strong track record of producing NFL players. He had hard loyalty to PSU but got demotion offer which forced him out. Shoop had absolutely zero care for PSU and rubbed face in it on way out. OSU scoops LJ up and it has hurt us every year. Hindsight yes but that is how it played out. Somehow Fuente at VT was able to keep Bud Foster (until he retired this year) so it can be done during regime changes.

What demotion offer did he get?

 

[PennStateTurf2002]

Let’s face it, we have good players, not great players. We are 9, 10 wins good, top 10-15 good. A lot of teams would love that. However we want elite and CJF has talked elite himself. So we are successful in a lot of ways but if we are talking elite we aren’t. We aren’t elite recruiting, we aren’t elite on the field and we aren’t elite coaching.

This team will likely play solid down the stretch, end up 5-3 or so. Probably ranked in top 15 at the end and CJF will talking about building into 2021. This is who we are, we will be this calibar team, we will be shown glimpses of the future and it will be the same thing next year.

Quickest way for us to get to elite? We need to get an elite QB and Defensive Line. Recruiting, or portal. Somehow you need to get elite in those 2 spots fast. Right now they are just ok

 

[walleye38]

The people who keep wanting to fire Franklin under the premise that we will go out and simply hire a coach who can get us to elite are living in fantasy land. Just a few variables to consider:

1. "Centre County/State College" are not exactly for everyone. We all may love State College ON A VISIT, but how many of us remained to live in State College after we graduated??? Most see State College as a pretty place to visit but not a great place to live. Take OB as an example. OB is on record as saying he did not exactly like it, did not see himself staying long AND his wife hated it. Remember, the Head Coach is distracted with working 20-hour days and on the road... but the coaches wife & children are in State College 24/7/365.... Many wife's are not signing on for a life in Centre County.

2. You do not have an Admin willing to pay the $$$$ to keep up with the elite. It's really nice to say we WANT to be elite. But does our Admin have the commitment to be elite??? Each & every year Franklin has to fight for enough budget to get a new paint job on Lasch, or new turf on a practice field. You think Saban, Dabo and Meyer/Day have to have these yearly fights for $$$ from Bama, Clemson & Ohio State boards???? So while Franklin is told the upgrades to Lasch will come as part of a 10-year master plan and after money is spent to upgrade the natatorium and build a museum for Barron.... Saban, Dabo and Day are getting $100 million dollar upgrades that include lazy rivers, wiffle ball fields, sliding boards, putt-putt courses, individual private message chairs, and world class gaming centers..... at their facilities.

3. PA is no longer a top 10 producer of D1 high school talent. Thru the 60s-90s Penn State had the luxury of being the power program in a State that produced top 10 quantities of D1 talent. It's a huge advantage to have a ton of big time D1 talent within a 100-200 mile radius of your campus. The WPIAL alone produced 30-40 big time D1 football players every year. Those numbers have dwindled yearly. PA is now out of the top 10 for D1 talent. States like Georgia, Louisiana, Miss, TN, North Carolina.... have blown past PA.

So before we all run Franklin out of town. Consider these variables. Then tell me WHO are we hiring?

Getting to elite status simply requires a team to recruit athletes first and students second. You recruit knowing that the player is going to leave in 1 or 1 years, and opt out for the draft. And you prpare the player for that.

 

[Art]

Yes. You are right. If you remember, the last carry over from Vandy to follow Franklin to PSU was Sean Spencer. Franklin/Spencer had to wait for St. Johnson to turn down the job before Franklin could bring on Spencer. Yes. It was Franklin.

Not exactly. LJ was offered an "assistant DL position." In other words, he was going to work for Spencer. To the extent that Spencer hesitated, it was not only to see what LJ was going to decide but also to consider whether he (Spencer) could live with the arrangement. Can't say I blame him.

 

[Art]

Let’s face it, we have good players, not great players. We are 9, 10 wins good, top 10-15 good. A lot of teams would love that. However we want elite and CJF has talked elite himself. So we are successful in a lot of ways but if we are talking elite we aren’t. We aren’t elite recruiting, we aren’t elite on the field and we aren’t elite coaching.

This team will likely play solid down the stretch, end up 5-3 or so. Probably ranked in top 15 at the end and CJF will talking about building into 2021. This is who we are, we will be this calibar team, we will be shown glimpses of the future and it will be the same thing next year.

Quickest way for us to get to elite? We need to get an elite QB and Defensive Line. Recruiting, or portal. Somehow you need to get elite in those 2 spots fast. Right now they are just ok

Yeah, PSU needs better players. But the best prospects go to the programs where they can win championships and/ or go to the NFL as a high draft pick. Not enough see PSU as the gateway.

 

[SLion]

What demotion offer did he get?

Apparently, DL coach after being interim HC as well as being offered DC at Illinois in past. OSU tagged his as associate head coach.

 

[Art]

Speaking of Shoop, not that I wish ill will but it has not exactly turned out great for him.

"Bob Shoop is not working with the team in an on-field coaching capacity at this time," UM football spokesman Dave Ablauf said in a statement Monday. "He is performing team-related duties remotely. In consideration of his privacy interests, we will have no further comment."

Shoop being an asshole goes back well before he joined PSU. He could have been born one, but I can't say since I haven't known him that long.

 

[Connorpozlee]

Apparently, DL coach after being interim HC as well as being offered DC at Illinois in past. OSU tagged his as associate head coach.

Meh, that’s not really a demotion. If remaining DL coach after not accepting the Illinoos DC position is a demotion then he demoted himself.

 

[Kiber]

Not exactly. LJ was offered an "assistant DL position." In other words, he was going to work for Spencer. To the extent that Spencer hesitated, it was not only to see what LJ was going to decide but also to consider whether he (Spencer) could live with the arrangement. Can't say I blame him.

I just remember Franklin bringing over most of his crew from Vandy. The last piece was Spencer. I thought the speculation on Spencer coming over (and getting a new DL Coach) was based on LJs decision.

 

[flavorguy]

I think another key area where the big "Championship" programs deviate from PSU's philosophy - the Transfer Portal. The big 4/5 programs almost conduct themselves like NBA teams... so if I have a graduating senior QB... who is the best FA I can pick off with the idea of play here a year and try to win a Championship... Justin Fields, Jalen Hurt, Burrows are examples...

 

[Art]

I think another key area where the big "Championship" programs deviate from PSU's philosophy - the Transfer Portal. The big 4/5 programs almost conduct themselves like NBA teams... so if I have a graduating senior QB... who is the best FA I can pick off with the idea of play here a year and try to win a Championship... Justin Fields, Jalen Hurt, Burrows are examples...

D'ya think PSU isn't attempting to contact high-profile transfer candidates? If they're not, someone isn't doing his job.

 

[Sooner Lion]

Agree this is hindsight. CJF did what coaches normally do but he poorly evaluated Shoops commitment if Bob started putting feelers out 1.5 years into his job. LJ Sr was "the" premier recruiter in DC/MD and had a very strong track record of producing NFL players. He had hard loyalty to PSU but got demotion offer which forced him out. Shoop had absolutely zero care for PSU and rubbed face in it on way out. OSU scoops LJ up and it has hurt us every year. Hindsight yes but that is how it played out. Somehow Fuente at VT was able to keep Bud Foster (until he retired this year) so it can be done during regime changes.

LJ Sr should have been assistant HC when Billy O took over.

 

[ftlpsu]

Ok, I ‘ll play. If Urban Meyer had come to Penn State rather than OSU would he have eventually built Penn State into a program equal to OSU’s? I say no, because the rosters at the current top programs have (some) kids that PSU either wouldn’t take or couldn’t pay. Don’t get me wrong, PSU has a very good program and the potential to become a great one. However, in the current environment (4 team play-off, liberal transfer rules, players believing they should be paid for the millions in revenue there efforts generate), I think you need to basically sell your soul to the devil to make the leap to perennially elite. I don’t think the PSU administration wants to do that. I am not so sure I want them to either.

I agree with some of your points....I also do not want to sell our soul it was bad enough we had one scandal don’t need one where we are paying players...don’t want those kids either.

Alabama pays kids this I know, perhaps OSU, not sure about Clemson. there is probably some of that with Texas and Oklahoma..again not sure.

My point about Meyer is that he is an X and Os coach and highly respected and would have probably won 3-5 of the games we lost plus recruited a handful more of top recruits. He also has a network of coaches that are also highly skilled.

 

[EPC FAN]

Since the CFA created this fraud playoff system there have been 3 elite programs and a whole lot of ain't gonna get there programs.

Ga knocks then Al, loaded with 5 stars that want a guarantee entrance to one of the Div 1 farcical circus 3 seed programs goes out and kicks Ga's doors in.

Ya... CJF has called some head scrathers and but in the end, it's a 3 team +1 occasional visitor Div 1 system and that is that for the time being.

Fans of all the wannabe in programs... just keep buying your tickets and funding the futility.

Not, me. Not now. I will be back when NCAA football makes an attempt to fix the problem they let the CFA create. If that's forever, so be it. I am not one of those that was born every minute.

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IS PENN STATE WILLING TO DO THIS TO BE ELITE? BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF.