Ben Jones article (link)

[Richard the LIONhearted]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...he-only-one-to-blame-if-change-comes,1479144/

The 1970s showed that multi sport and venue arenas just don't work RE: Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh, Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati - they were all terrible concrete toilet bowls. What does the Athletic Department do in the mid-90s? Build a multi venue arena.

There needs to be a classic 10,000 seat fieldhouse on this campus to even give basketball a chance. BJC is a dark and doomed building for basketball. What a SNAFU.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

Basketball being given a "chance" is irrelevant. The Ath. Dept. is fine with it. This isn't speculation, it's been proven, and it's nothing new. The team turns a profit. Fans be damned.

Let's put the whole place under a black curtain. Let's start it down around Hastings and roll the thing up over to Park. Play games at 6AM on Tuesdays, film it, send it to the BTN and have them run it at 2AM on Monday morning. As long as it pays off, nobody cares and now if you do care, you're shouted down. We knew this all along, that nobody at PSU cared. Now blogs and writers and PSU are blaming us for caring. How dare you want PSU to spend money when it wouldn't matter anyway? OK, fine. Truly, fine with me. Hard to care less than the fans do now.

 

[NittanyLion15]

Basketball being given a "chance" is irrelevant. The Ath. Dept. is fine with it. This isn't speculation, it's been proven, and it's nothing new. The team turns a profit. Fans be damned.

Let's put the whole place under a black curtain. Let's start it down around Hastings and roll the thing up over to Park. Play games at 6AM on Tuesdays, film it, send it to the BTN and have them run it at 2AM on Monday morning. As long as it pays off, nobody cares and now if you do care, you're shouted down. We knew this all along, that nobody at PSU cared. Now blogs and writers and PSU are blaming us for caring. How dare you want PSU to spend money when it wouldn't matter anyway? OK, fine. Truly, fine with me. Hard to care less than the fans do now.

Basketball Smashketball, We're a wrestling school

 

[lein]

never should have left Rec Hall

 

[Victor E. Bell]

Basketball Smashketball, We're a wrestling school

Without question, true.

 

[spoog19050]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...he-only-one-to-blame-if-change-comes,1479144/

The 1970s showed that multi sport and venue arenas just don't work RE: Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh, Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati - they were all terrible concrete toilet bowls. What does the Athletic Department do in the mid-90s? Build a multi venue arena.

There needs to be a classic 10,000 seat fieldhouse on this campus to even give basketball a chance. BJC is a dark and doomed building for basketball. What a SNAFU.

Dumb comparison. Mullti sport does work for sports with similar size fields like basketball/hockey.

 

[NittanyLion15]

Dumb comparison. Mullti sport does work for sports with similar size fields like basketball/hockey.

The one exception in the Big Ten is the Kohl Center at Wisconsin, they play Hockey, do concerts, and host basketball in that place and it's always rocking. Madison being the State Capital and proximity to campus with no pro teams gives Wisky a large pool to draw from... but generally the multi use facilities lack what the one dimensional arenas give you. Looking at all the B1G ten facilities... What would you like to see Penn State remodel or rebuilt the BJC after?

Assembly Hall - Indiana - CAPACITY 17,222

Assembly Hall - Illinois (They nailed this renovation) CAPACITY 15,500

Breslin Center - Michigan State - tough place to play simply due to the students surrounding the court - CAPACITY 14,759

Carver Hawkeye Arena - Iowa (legit dug this out of the ground) CAPACITY 15,400

Comcast Center - Maryland (Might be the steepest seating i've ever experienced) CAPACITY - 17,550

Williams Arena - Minnesota - Always thought this felt like a barn, Classic - CAPACITY 14,625

Crisler Arena - Michigan - Bankrupt Arena - CAPACITY - 13,751

Mackey Arena - Purdue - Boiler up - CAPACITY - 14,240

RAC - Rutgers - CAPACITY 8,000 - High School playoffs?

Kohl Center - Wisconsin, because they fill it, it's awesome - CAPACITY 17,230

Pinnacle Bank Arena - Nebraska - Not bad - CAPACITY - 15,500

Value City Arena - OSU - Meh ... Looks like an NBA Arena - Capacity - 18,809

Welsh Ryan Arena - NW - CAPACITY 8,117 - They did a good job with this renovation

BJC - CAPACITY 15,261- Wasn't easy to find a sold out pic...

Curtaingate

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...he-only-one-to-blame-if-change-comes,1479144/

The 1970s showed that multi sport and venue arenas just don't work RE: Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia, Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh, Riverfront Stadium in Cincinnati - they were all terrible concrete toilet bowls. What does the Athletic Department do in the mid-90s? Build a multi venue arena.

There needs to be a classic 10,000 seat fieldhouse on this campus to even give basketball a chance. BJC is a dark and doomed building for basketball. What a SNAFU.

That dude is a knob.

 

[Nitty_Lion]

That dude is a knob.

Should sue his barber for incompetence

 

[Nitt1300]

leveling the BJC would create a lot of parking spaces- just saying

 

[Ian]

never should have left Rec Hall

Hallelujah! If Cameron is good for Duke, why isn’t Rec Hall good enough for PSU?

 

[NittanyLion15]

leveling the BJC would create a lot of parking spaces- just saying

It's just a few thousand seats too small. I agree Rec Hall would certainly be a better alternative, however you really need to get up above 9k playing in a power 5 conference. I forget that Cameron Indoor gets crowds pushing 10k.

Cameron Indoor 9314

BJC - Capacity - 6502

In searching for these images, I saw that the Rec Hall architect, Charles Z. Klauder, also designed the University of Pennsylvania Palestra, which was constructed in 1927. From the exterior they look almost the same.

If we could skip the BJC redesign, and jack up the roof on Rec Hall just high enough to squeeze in chairback seats while expanding from 6400 to 9-10k. We've got ourselves a home court advantage.

Here's what Penn's nearly 100 year old cathedral looks like. "The Palestra" or the newly renovated Rec Hall Penn State's new home for Basketball "The Shrine at Burrowes Den" ha

If not.... here are other venues in around college bball that have always caught my eye. PSU could totally rock an arena similar to one of these.

WVU Coliseum

Cassell Coliseum - VT

Mizzou Arena - Missouri

Gallagher Iba Arena - OK State

 

[Ranger Dan]

Dumb comparison. Mullti sport does work for sports with similar size fields like basketball/hockey.

It’s not the multi sport that is the problem, it’s that the design was skewed towards concerts and other non sport uses...

 

[Nitt1300]

It’s not the multi sport that is the problem, it’s that the design was skewed towards concerts and other non sport uses...

It's a profit deal!

 

[psuno1]

The BJC would be packed out if PSU was a Top 10 team year in an year out. The problem is getting to a top 10 team.

 

[NittPicker]

It’s not the multi sport that is the problem, it’s that the design was skewed towards concerts and other non sport uses...

IIRC, that's how it had to be to get the state to kick in a few million dollars. Giving public money for a college sports arena wouldn't have been politically smart. Instead the money was given to help build a multi-purpose arena which would benefit the entire region by allowing cultural and entertainment events not associated with the university. The BJC isn't even managed by the athletics department.

The state also gave money to Pitt when they built their arena. The construction price estimate was intentionally low-balled so the state thought it was getting a good deal. Turns out it was predictably and extremely over budget and the state had to kick in more money so the place could be finished. Pitt hoodwinked the state of PA but that's a story for another day. Too bad the PSU administration wasn't as deceptive when asking Harrisburg for money.

Anyway, for those of you who want a new basketball centric arena, go out and start raising money. Don't count on help from the state either unless you want a situation similar to what we have at the BJC.

 

[77 PSU]

The BJC would be packed out if PSU was a Top 10 team year in an year out. The problem is getting to a top 10 team.

Exactly, would The Pegula be packed if the team performed like MBB? Rec Hall wouldn’t be packed for wrestling if they only won 1/3 of their BIG duals and produce the occasional AA and a national champion once or twice a decade. Beaver Stadium would have 60 to 70 thousand butts in the seats if the dark years had continued until today.

The problem with the program isn’t the box, but the crappy product inside.

 

[fairgambit]

Those of us who know nothing about basketball have been saying for years that Penn State will never have a quality basketball program. New coach, new arena, more money...nothing will change that reality. The reason we say this is because, when it comes to Penn State basketball, the less you know, the more you know. Too many here overanalyze this. The fact is, we suck at basketball and we always will. Accept that and move on.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

The Jordan Center is not the reason we are bad

 

[razpsu]

Building a new arena for basketball? Forget it.
Put the money into a coach if you have too but this program needs to improve dramatically before Such an investment.

 

[BobPSU92]

If I understand correctly, we should blame Bryce Jordan. Had he never existed, or at least if he had never been the president of Penn State, we wouldn't be in this predicament. Is that correct?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Building a new arena for basketball? Forget it.
Put the money into a coach if you have too but this program needs to improve dramatically before Such an investment.

I like how people fret that we cannot scrape together the incremental money for a new coach’s salary but then want to spend $100 million to replace a 20 year old arena

 

[Ranger Dan]

IIRC, that's how it had to be to get the state to kick in a few million dollars. Giving public money for a college sports arena wouldn't have been politically smart. Instead the money was given to help build a multi-purpose arena which would benefit the entire region by allowing cultural and entertainment events not associated with the university. The BJC isn't even managed by the athletics department.

The state also gave money to Pitt when they built their arena. The construction price estimate was intentionally low-balled so the state thought it was getting a good deal. Turns out it was predictably and extremely over budget and the state had to kick in more money so the place could be finished. Pitt hoodwinked the state of PA but that's a story for another day. Too bad the PSU administration wasn't as deceptive when asking Harrisburg for money.

Anyway, for those of you who want a new basketball centric arena, go out and start raising money. Don't count on help from the state either unless you want a situation similar to what we have at the BJC.

Yes, it had to be open for use other than psu sports, but it could have been a field house that also held concerts.

 

[step.eng69]

Penn State investing in its basketball program doesn’t make dollars or sense​

Hiring a ringer (read: Hoiberg or Matta) to improve the program’s on-court performance wouldn’t add up
By Eric Leisure@Eric_PSU Jan 23, 2019, 8:02am CST

Link:
https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2019/1...ers-fred-hoiberg-thad-matta-sandy-barbour-pat

"As a fan, it’s easy to sit back and say “pay up to get (insert coach de jour) to Penn State” but when you dive into things, it’s not exactly as easy as writing a check and making that happen. Unlike professional sports, Penn State basketball is part of a larger university ecosystem and you can’t just make a major financial change without either a generous donation or near-certain proof that said-investment will equal more revenue".

"I know “it’s complicated” is rarely a rationale anyone wants to hear as a defense for something near and dear to the heart. But when it comes to Penn State basketball and the state of the program, things kinda, sorta are".

 

[BobPSU92]

Penn State investing in its basketball program doesn’t make dollars or sense​

Hiring a ringer (read: Hoiberg or Matta) to improve the program’s on-court performance wouldn’t add up
By Eric Leisure@Eric_PSU Jan 23, 2019, 8:02am CST

Link:
https://www.btpowerhouse.com/2019/1...ers-fred-hoiberg-thad-matta-sandy-barbour-pat

As a fan, it’s easy to sit back and say “pay up to get (insert coach de jour) to Penn State” but when you dive into things, it’s not exactly as easy as writing a check and making that happen. Unlike professional sports, Penn State basketball is part of a larger university ecosystem and you can’t just make a major financial change without either a generous donation or near-certain proof that said-investment will equal more revenue.

I know “it’s complicated” is rarely a rationale anyone wants to hear as a defense for something near and dear to the heart. But when it comes to Penn State basketball and the state of the program, things kinda, sorta are.

SPEND. MONEY.

WIN.

 

[Art]

Hallelujah! If Cameron is good for Duke, why isn’t Rec Hall good enough for PSU?

Different economic paradigms. Unlike the ADs at Stanford, Vanderbilt, ND, Duke, and, increasingly, Northwestern, Barbour doesn't have speed-dial list of wealthy donors she can call every time she needs large gobs of cash.

 

[Art]

SPEND. MONEY.

WIN.

ISSUE.100.YEAR.BONDS.........LOTS.OF.THEM.

 

[dwiz]

no pro teams gives Wisky a large pool to draw from

 

[Art]

What are the “multi-sports” in BJC?

Men’s Basketball and........ Women’s Basketball?

Seriously..... what other sports are played there. I’m drawing a blank.

Believe the term is "multi-purpose."

 

[NittanyLion15]

I like how people fret that we cannot scrape together the incremental money for a new coach’s salary but then want to spend $100 million to replace a 20 year old arena

I'm pretty sure the BJC is getting overhauled as soon as we see an updated 10 year plan from Sandy... So It's not like they're not going to spend some money anyway.

Here, I just spent 20 minutes in photoshop designing a new Rec Hall.

Where's the updated master plan Sandy? Here I saved you some cash on the architect fees for a Rec Hall rehaul.. Free of charge

 

[NittPicker]

I'm pretty sure the BJC is getting overhauled as soon as we see an updated 10 year plan from Sandy... So It's not like they're not going to spend some money anyway.

Here, I just spent 20 minutes in photoshop designing a new Rec Hall.

Where's the updated master plan Sandy? Here I saved you some cash on the architect fees for a Rec Hall rehaul.. Free of charge

Raise the roof!!! Literally!!!

 

[NittanyLion15]

Green Bay is two hours away, and since when did Favre do his thing in basketball arenas?

 

[NittanyLion15]

The current “5 Year Plan” is 40% over...... and the next shovel of dirt (or even committed plan to shovel dirt) will be the first.

Unless the BJC “overhaul” is limited to replacing some light bulbs, and installing warm-water bidets in the Administrative Restrooms...... don’t count on it.

This is the new 2019 town hall havin' Penn State. Anything is possible.

 

[spoog19050]

The BJC would be packed out if PSU was a Top 10 team year in an year out. The problem is getting to a top 10 team.

And nobody would be complaining about the stadium. On the other hand if they had a new stadium and do not have a good team, they would still complain.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

And nobody would be complaining about the stadium. On the other hand if they had a new stadium and do not have a good team, they would still complain.

If we were #1 in the nation it would be packed but some weirdo would be complaining that it was distracting attention from the 128-lb wrestling showdown vs. Wyoming

 

[NittPicker]

Yes, it had to be open for use other than psu sports, but it could have been a field house that also held concerts.

Agree 100%. The problem was likely that state dictating the size of the venue as a condition of giving the money. Maybe PSU wanted something different but the state wanted "x" square feet on the floor and "y" seating capacity. Those monster trucks need room to operate.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Agree 100%. The problem was likely that state dictating the size of the venue as a condition of giving the money. Maybe PSU wanted something different but the state wanted "x" square feet on the floor and "y" seating capacity. Those monster trucks need room to operate.

My guess is that the construction contract was mismanaged and poorly overseen, more than state mandates dictating every square inch. I think it was originally supposed to be hockey-ready

 

[NittanyLion15]

And nobody would be complaining about the stadium. On the other hand if they had a new stadium and do not have a good team, they would still complain.

People will complain when there's justable cause to complain about something. It's how things get better.

 

[WDLion]

never should have left Rec Hall

How many fans would wrestling draw to Rec Hall if the term was 0-9 in the conference?

 

[NittPicker]

My guess is that the construction contract was mismanaged and poorly overseen, more than state mandates dictating every square inch. I think it was originally supposed to be hockey-ready

I've heard of the hockey-ready plan as well. It was reportedly scrapped to save money after the plans were finalized. In the long run that idea worked out well thanks to Terry Pegula. A hockey program wouldn't have been as viable in BJC with all the other events taking place there.