I picked Nolf which I’m sure surprises no one. He has the most pins and for me was the most fun to watch as well. Probably the most creative wrestler I’ve ever seen and his pace was on another level. I think you can say this about most of the PSU greats but I love how kind and genuine he is off the mat while being an absolute killer on it. The placing of his ankle bands on the line after his matches is classic and adds a few more points in his favor. Something like that shouldn’t matter but when all of these guys are so close the small things end up making a difference in my choice. My top 5 goes Nolf, Zain, DT, Bo, Ruth. It is really damn hard finding statistical differences between all of these guys so this question almost comes down to aesthetic preference and Nolf is absolutely my favorite guy to watch wrestle. Poetry in motion
Best PSU Wrestler Ever Poll
- Thread starter mcpat
- Start date
I think this is the right answer, not taking a RS his freshman year cost him the chance at being a 4xer. The crazy thing is that he was right there with Stieber anyway though, he was the biggest hammer on a team of hammers.
Can’t leave off of the great moment list, Quentin Wright’s standing cradle Pin of Grant Gambrall(Iowa), to clinch Cael’s very first NCAA Title. See the iconic photo of Cael about to slap the mat above!That is by the far the best MOMENT. Followed by Cenzo/ Imar final. IMO
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This is as difficult as ranking which of your kids is your favorite.
So, you asked to make any reasoning you want to answer the question, so, I looked at entire body of work and selected DT. This question is such a difficult one with all of the options we've had at PSU.
Most talented (Just during their PSU career - I'm not counting Brooks or Starrocci yet, as their careers aren't over):
1. David Taylor
2. Jason Nolf
3. Bo Nickal
4. Zain Retherford
5. Ed Ruth
Most accomplished (Just during their PSU career - again, not counting Brooks or Starrocci yet)
1. Zain Retherford (No redshirt comes into play)
2. Jason Nolf
3. Bo Nickal
4. David Taylor
5. Ed Ruth
My favorite to watch for my own personal reasons
1. Jason Nolf (Creativity)
2. David Taylor (Point scoring machine)
3. Bo Nickal (Excitement)
4. Zain Retherford (Painful dominance)
5. Ed Ruth (Athleticism)
Most talented (Just during their PSU career - I'm not counting Brooks or Starrocci yet, as their careers aren't over):
1. David Taylor
2. Jason Nolf
3. Bo Nickal
4. Zain Retherford
5. Ed Ruth
Most accomplished (Just during their PSU career - again, not counting Brooks or Starrocci yet)
1. Zain Retherford (No redshirt comes into play)
2. Jason Nolf
3. Bo Nickal
4. David Taylor
5. Ed Ruth
My favorite to watch for my own personal reasons
1. Jason Nolf (Creativity)
2. David Taylor (Point scoring machine)
3. Bo Nickal (Excitement)
4. Zain Retherford (Painful dominance)
5. Ed Ruth (Athleticism)
I wonder if 131 wins in 132 matches has been surpassed by anyone other than Cael. Anyone know?
Is there anywhere that lists total points scored at NCAA's by a wrestler? I'd be interesting in seeing those numbers.
I used who was the most dominat wrestler day in and day out as my criteria. I picked Nolf but it was a tough decision:
Really can't go wrong with any of these 5 (or anyone on the list). Value winning %? Go Ruth. Value bonus %? Go Taylor... take a look at the bonus % for a sec. I would say that a 88.32% winning rate would be great...
But, if you want Pins, Nolf is the man. I am not sure how many today even have a 43.8% bonus rate...
*stats came from wrestlestat for Nolf, Rethford and Nickal. For Taylor and Ruth from a combo of the PSU wrestling media guide and wiki page for bonus rate.
| Nolf | Retherford | Nickal | Taylor | Ruth | |
| Win Rate | 97.08% | 97.67% | 96.43% | 97.81% | 97.84% |
| Bonus Rate | 83.94% | 75.97% | 72.86% | 88.32% | 74.82% |
| Pin Rate | 43.80% | 41.09% | 42.14% | 38.69% | 33.09% |
Really can't go wrong with any of these 5 (or anyone on the list). Value winning %? Go Ruth. Value bonus %? Go Taylor... take a look at the bonus % for a sec. I would say that a 88.32% winning rate would be great...
But, if you want Pins, Nolf is the man. I am not sure how many today even have a 43.8% bonus rate...
*stats came from wrestlestat for Nolf, Rethford and Nickal. For Taylor and Ruth from a combo of the PSU wrestling media guide and wiki page for bonus rate.
88% bonus rate is so ridiculous it's hard to even comprehend. By comparison, Starocci is at 56.6% and Brooks 59%. For as dominant as we consider those guys, and their win rates are 98% and 95% (so comparable there), they're not even in the same league in terms of bonus.
Great stuff! If you take the average of the three rates, it comes out as the following:
1st: 74.94% (Jason Nolf & David Taylor)
3rd: 71.58% (Zain Retherford)
4th: 70.48% (Bo Nickal)
5th: 68.58% (Ed Ruth)
Or picking the best Penn State linebacker.
That is easier for me, Sean Lee! Though actually he is my favorite, not necessarily the best.
That's exactly why this is so hard to answer, and tonight I pick Nolf over Zain.
If it isn't too much trouble, I would love to see the stats if you remove their freshman or redshirt freshman years. Also, I it would be nice to see Jason's stats if his injury default loss is removed. Adding to the subjectivity with all of this, I think wrestling as a true freshman and also being young while wrestling as a true freshman should be considered.
I can't decide, I'm still stuck on the irresistible force vs. the immovable object.
Good catch as including the redshirt season hurt Bo and Jason (counted thier records but forgot to count the pins):
| Nolf | Retherford | Nickal | Taylor | Ruth | |
| Win Rate | 97.50% | 97.67% | 97.56% | 97.81% | 97.84% |
| Bonus Rate | 87.50% | 75.97% | 77.24% | 88.32% | 74.82% |
| Pin Rate | 50.00% | 41.09% | 47.97% | 38.69% | 33.09% |
This includes Jason's injury default. If you take that out his win rate goes up to 98.32%, bonus rate up to 88.24%, and pin rate up to 50.42%.
Take as second and consider Jason's pin rate. Every time he took the mat it was a coin flip if he would pin his opponent. That is not 50/50 if he would win, not 50/50 that he would get a bonus win, but 50/50 he would pin... and Bo is right behind him.
Jason also had 27 TFs -- so his combined (TF + F) rate was 72.5%.
Even with the new T3 rule, it may be a long time before we see a career rate like that again.
Eliminating freshman, and especially true freshman, years is where McCoy enters the discussion. 131-1 and a Hodge.
Who would you rank higher between RBY & Nick Lee? At first I thought RBY, but after looking through their stats, Nick Lee has a much higher bonus rate (65% v 50%). And I think it hurts RBY's legacy a tad that he ended his career with a loss.
It'd be an interesting poll/discussion to rank our 2x champs in general. Hard not to make DT #1 on that list, for sure--but we got a few, both Cael era and prior, that would definitely duke it out for #2.
Nick Lee is my favorite PSU wrestler under Cael. So incredibly technically sound. But RBY’s three finals probably trumps him.
Can someone better at gathering this data, please add King Spencer to this spreadsheet for comparison purposes. Thanks in advance!
Ok using Wrestle Stat for S. Lee (except for number of pins which came from the Hawk Central website) and counting his year where he took a medical redshirt (he was 3-0):
| Nolf | Retherford | Nickal | Taylor | Ruth | S. Lee | |
| Win Rate | 97.50% | 97.67% | 97.56% | 97.81% | 97.84% | 94.23% |
| Bonus Rate | 87.50% | 75.97% | 77.24% | 88.32% | 74.82% | 81.73% |
| Pin Rate | 50.00% | 41.09% | 47.97% | 38.69% | 33.09% | 32.69% |
These numbers show that while S. Lee had a great collegiate career I would not say he was as dominate as the other 5 on this chart. His bonus rate wins put him in the middle of the pack but his win rate and pin rate are the lowest considered.
I actually don't think this takes away from his career it just points out the amazing careers of the other 5.
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Easy enough to subtract out the wins giving a win % of 94.06% (worse), bonus rate of 82.18% (slightly better), and a pin rate of 33.66% (pulling slightly ahead of Ruth rather than slightly behind). Bottom line is that it does not change the analysis or what the numbers are telling me at all
This just shows once again how insane Taylor and Nolf’s bonus rates were. I’m so glad I got a chance to watch them in my lifetime.
Any chance to get the Tech/Fall rate, since, Ironbird keeps moving the goal posts?
Is it ironic that PSU fans all have different definitions of the greatest PSU wrestler, while most (not all probably) Iowa fans pick Lee, who wouldnt even make top 5 statistically at PSU?
Fairly easy for the PSU wrestlers using a combo of wrestle stat and the PSU media guide. A little harder for other wrestlers as I have to rely on wrestle stat (which is very accurate) and a random web site (which may or may not be accurate). Will try and put something together when I get the chance... @El-Jefe already gave the fall/tf rate for Nolf at 72.5%... no one else will be close. I do hold out the chance I am wrong, but doubtful.
Used Wrestlestat, PSU Media Guide and the Penn State Wrestling Club Website (and for S. Lee used wrestlestat and the NCAA website):
| Nolf | Retherford | Nickal | Taylor | Ruth | S. Lee | |
| Win Rate | 97.50% | 97.67% | 97.56% | 97.81% | 97.84% | 94.06% |
| Bonus Rate | 87.50% | 75.97% | 77.24% | 88.32% | 74.82% | 82.18% |
| Pin Rate | 50.00% | 41.09% | 47.97% | 38.69% | 33.09% | 33.66% |
| Pin + TF Rate | 72.50% | 58.14% | 57.72% | 69.34% | 51.08% | 66.34% |
| Average Rank | 2.25 | 3.75 | 3.75 | 2.25 | 4.75 | 4.25 |
A few things that the data shows me:
1. Adding TF to the picture really did not change anything.
2. Looking at average rank there appear to be 3 groups where the dominance appears to be similar (Lee/Ruth, Nickal/Retherford, and Nolf/Taylor). However this is just average rank among the 6 not scaled to the amount of difference between them. For example S. Lee had a ranking of 5 for pin rate and Ruth had a ranking of 6 even though the difference was only .55% while Nolf had a win rate ranking of 5 and Lee had a win rate ranking of 6 even though difference was over 3.4%.
3. You can devise a ranking system that takes this difference into account but it really is not going to change anything.
4. As I have said before it depends on what you consider the right metrics for dominance.
Thank you so much for grabbing this data. It is really interesting to see the comparisons.
I appreciate seeing the numbers but I have always used what I have seen and hope the numbers support my opinions but in the end the numbers aren’t changing my opinion. I am happy with Zain being number one and expect that I will change that later this year. DT is never in my top 5 due to being dominated by Dake ( 0-3, I sort of expected him to pull out at least one- after watching 3 matches I feel confident if they wrestled 10 times he wouldn’t pull one)
I include what DT has done post college. In college only, I’d prob go with Zain before seeing the numbers. Pinning half your opponents through a 4-yr career (Nolf) is ridiculous.
