Bowl guru Jerry Palm has potential 10-2 Penn State slotted in NY6 (Orange) versus Wake Forest
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I didn't say you tied that to the projected W/L, and I just clarified that in my prior response. I agreed with you on your expectations (which is why I "liked" your comment) and was commenting on the feeling among other fans that seemed to set higher expectations for 2023 based upon their belief that the 2022 team was a "young team", which I don't see the basis for. Team has a good bit of young talent, but will lose a good bit of mature talent as well as leadership and experience.
Yep I did get carried away with my thoughts on the experience and leadership PSU will lose...........
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If Penn State finishes 10-2 and both Michigan and Ohio State enter the finale at 11-0....Penn State is going to the Rose Bowl.
Doubtful B10 gets 2 in playoff. More likely is if both are 11-0 then loser goes to Rose Bowl.
Agree. Unless there are a lot of 2 loss conference champions.
You know that WF can basically say the same thing right? "The only decent teams on their schedule are Michigan and Ohio State and they lose those games. Good record solely the result of a cupcake schedule."
NY6 bowls are, for the moment, still a big deal and I think it would be great for the program if they play in any of them (and hopefully win).
This trend of sitting out bowl games will accelerate . Some disagreed with me in a different message thread, but that trend will appear in an expanded CFB 12 team playoff as well. Only solution is for the bowls to financially reward the players and purchase injury insurance as well. You will see the bowls wither away otherwise.
Playing against one of the top secondaries in the nation may be reason not to play. Draft stock can go down as well as up. Who knows what his advisors may tell him.
That's a minority opinion -- and a tiny minority at that -- among both fans and players.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL. OK. So if we lose on Saturday, we won't see you here until next season? Can I get a promise on that?
Do you though? I'm not sure you do.
Under Franklin, name the season that we didn’t lose a game we were favored to win? Example 1, last years OT debacle to Illinois AT HOME! He’s currently 1-7 vs OSU, so a second loss is almost a foregone conclusion, unfortunately. Which of our final four games will be the “shocking” 3rd loss? Who knows?
But, suppose some miracle occurs and we win out after Saturday, finishing 10-2. 10-2! A NY6 Bowl! Totally HOLLOW! Why, because we will have FAILED the only 3 on-field success metrics for the PSU Football program:
1. We were demolished losing to UM
2. We will have lost to OSU
3. Thus, we will not win the conference.
10-2 is meaningful only in that it is better than 9-3 - it is not success when we lose the only 2 games that matter. A NY6 Bowl game that is not a playoff game is also practically meaningless. 1981 is OVER! The goal is not 10-2 and an invite to the whatever bowl.
There are 3 success metrics, and they are these 3, and ONLY these 3. When will Nittany Nation and the PSU Football program get it?
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The only circumstance I could see it happening is if OSU and Michigan are the last 2 undefeated teams at 1/2 for their matchup. Everybody else will need losses. Preferably whoever the committee moves up to 2/3/4 or wherever they place the loser of that game before ccg week would be beneficial for them to lose the ccg.
Are you saying players will hold out of playoff games or that the remaining bowls will see even more hold outs after the playoff expands? I agree on the latter.
What is a probable solution to achieving these 3 success metrics? I've seen it written many times, but you never offer up any solution. I'm curious if you have an idea on this, or if it's strictly goal based and not purpose driven.
Glad you asked. Obviously it is a multi-pronged solution set. Here are some steps that would help:
1. Get every member of the Athletic Department to understand and inculcate the 3 success metrics; from the Head Coaches to the janitors;
2. Analyze each sport to see which can be eliminated. Yes, eliminated. My standard would start with “has this sport ever won the Big Ten”? Thus, I would save funds by eliminating men’s tennis and men’s golf right off the bat. Mens hoops would be an exception, as they are a funds generator. All saved funds go directly to upgrading the football program;
3. Reduce scholarships to the Title X minimum allowable; any saved funds go immediately to the football program;
4. BENCHMARK! What are Alabama and Clemson doing that makes their programs so much better than ours? Find out, by any legal means necessary. Implement the things that they’re doing immediately. If they can do it, why can’t we? And if we can’t, than admit it to the PSU world publicly so we can adjust our expectations accordingly;
5. Find an Angel Capitalist, like PSU did for ice hockey - maybe the same one. Mr. Pegula is now worth $6.7 Billion according to what I’ve recently read. He’s also a football guy (Buffalo Bills). Whomever - apply all funds to improving the football program.
Football drives the bus and pays the bills - it’s about time PSU acted like it, stopped all the nonsense like upgrading the field hockey facilities (their literal dozens of fans must be thrilled) and giving out fencing scholarships and do what it takes to be an actual elite football program, rather than the fantasy one in Coach Franklin’s fevered imagination.
Sure if you like. That won't help and is just corporate speak, but if you want to do that, knock yourself out.
No. No. No. A thousand times no. PSU should be adding more sports not reducing the number of sports. This is the worst comment I've read on this board in a long time.
Nope. PSU should be adding scholarships in non-revenue sports, not the reverse. You are being ridiculous.
I have no issue studying other programs, but I'm not sure it is that simple.
You seem to think $$$ can buy a national championship. Ask TAMU how that is working out for them.
Just stop it. This is moronic.
1. It’s called a Mission Statement, and it’s important for success;
2. Alabama doesn’t have 29 sports; Clemson doesn’t have 29 sports. Too many leads to funding and goal diffusion, and that isn’t optimal.
3. We do not need any more sports, and in fact should fund less, so that we can concentrate on sports that matter.
4. Benchmarking to find areas to improve our football program is critically important. Success leaves clues. Identify the clues and implement to improve.
5. You might not get what you pay for, but you most assuredly will not get what you DON’T pay for. We waste money, lots of it, on below-niche sports that have almost no fans besides the athletes parents. Football indeed drives the finances of the Athletic Dept. This is unarguable.
I won’t bother to address your childish ad hominem characterization of my ideas.
I suggest you root for Clemson. They dominate the Almost Competitive Conference. Go be happy.
Mission statements are complete bullshit.
Which is why PSU's athletic department is better than either Bama or Clemson.
I strenuously disagree and suspect many on this board do as well.
This may be part of the equation, but is certainly not a silver bullet.
It is arguable as this is NOT a "waste" of money.
Your ideas are crap. How's that for ad hominem?
Maybe--probably but an 11-1 Ohio State with their only loss to 13-0 Michigan likely would get in unless Clemson or TCU is undefeated. And they might still get in over an undefeated TCU. Hopefully Penn State beats Ohio State though then they both won't get in.
We still have a road to the CFP - got to win out, then hope that Michigan ends up with losses to Ohio State and Illinois.
If we win out and win the Big Ten title, we have a 65% chance of making the playoff.
Ignore the numbers--if we win out and win the Big Ten we're a lock
You would need some help if Penn State, Ohio State and Michigan all end up 8-1 in conference. The tie breaker would be records of Big Ten West opponents.
At the moment, Penn St's West opponents are 5-8, Ohio State's opponents are 4-9, and Michigan's are 6-6.
We have a better recruiting area, geographically than OSU. PA and Ohio are pretty even, Ohio maybe a little better state recruiting wise but we are closer to NJ, DC/MD, VA, CT, NY, etc... OSU is closer to Michigan but besides that not much else geographically speaking. So don't try and use that as an excuse.
How so? No Big 12 team is going lessthan 2 losses, no Pac team will be less than 2 also
Top 500 kids (using on3 concensus)
Ohio 14
PA 11
Top 300
Ohio 8
PA 5
Columbus - fairly big city, airport that flys in and out of everywhere, every kid in the state is taught from birth to pick the Buckeyes if they offer
State College - rural in comparison, not a very accessible airport, doesn't fly as many places near as much, kids not taught to pick dear old State
These are crude, but generally accurate. 15 years ago when concert festivals got started again, Columbus was picked because it's 500 miles or less away from 70% of the US population and has multiple interstates and airports to get people there.
I'm not sure this is exactly how I would describe it. I think OSU is the "Official State Football School" in a way that PSU kind of isn't. In other words, you have kids you don't go to OSU (for whatever reason) and end up at BGSU or Miami (OH) or Toledo (all of who obviously have D1 football programs) but they still cheer for the Buckeyes. I don't think you have too many kids at Pitt or Temple (the only other PA schools with FBS programs) who actively cheer for PSU.
So in OH, even if your parents went to Kent St, if they were football fans, you probably grew up an OSU fan. It's kind of an odd thing (and I think maybe owes to how bad the OH NFL teams were for so long, combined with the lack of another P5 school in state).
Very odd. Success compounds it, but at Penn State's peak runs, have we had our pick of every kid in the state? Philly kids seem to be interested in traveling. Catholic school kids bite on the ND fish hook. Pittsburgh kids are just as likely to go elsewhere than SC. Just not a prevalent in state loyalty to Penn State it seems. At least, not to the degree of Buckeye mania.
Blame the Eagles and Steelers?
I'm not aware of any other state like it except maybe Nebraska (I don't think there is another FBS program in the state) but they don't have enough in state talent for it to matter much.
Most big ten states have multiple Big Ten (or at least FBS schools) that prevent this kind of "monopoly" over CFB fandom.
Not saying this is the reason OSU is successful, but it certainly doesn't hurt.
Here’s another idea, and I don’t know if it’s being done:
As I’ve said, success leaves clues. At PSU, we actually have one elite program: Wrestling. So, what is Cael Sanderson doing that makes PSU Wrestling THE elite program in the nation? What are his recruiting strategies/tactics to get elite athletes to come to PSU? What are the University’s attributes he “sells”? What are the athletic attributes for which he looks? I’d bet there is something there that would help the Football Program.
Frankly, he is the only coach at PSU that understands what success for a PSU sport is supposed to be. He accepts no excuses, makes no stupid boasts about being”elite”, and destroys our competition on a regular basis. Yes, I’m well aware that collegiate wrestling is a much smaller world than collegiate football, but I’d surmise that there are some factors that could cross over and help.
just like we should benchmark Alabama, Clemson, and Georgia football programs, I would think applying the same principles in analyzing the approach of the only PSU Head Coach that understands what success means would be something our exceedingly arrogant Head football coach might want to consider. Clearly, he doesn’t have very many answers to our issues.
Home state is far more important than what you’re close to. Also, how many P5 schools are in Ohio? It’s not an excuse, it’s a reality….we saw it happening before Franklin got here.
My son and I have done some experiments with this. Go to a mall in WV and count how many WVU shirts and hats you see….we would always see about 80-90% of the people wearing something. We do the same when we go the mall in Lexington KY….again, about 80-90% of the people wearing UK stuff. When we go to a mall in PA, we see maybe 20-30% of the people in PSU gear. There is much more diversity of school fandom in PA than many other states where the kids grow up as fans and want to play for the “home” school.
