Brands' Long Term Strategic Error: Spencer Lee

[lionlover]

I think Terry and Tina Brands made a mistake in burning Lee's redshirt last year.

I honestly feel that Lee could have had a legitimate chance to challenge Cael Sanderson's record. He is the most complete 125 lber I have ever seen. I just don't see anyone beating him.

Right now Iowa is playing major catch up with Penn State. They need a huge boost in recruiting momentum. Sure, having Lee get four national championships will help boost them. But, producing someone with a better record than Gable and on par with Sanderson might have helped them more in the long run.

Was getting that one individual national championship from Lee last year worth sacrificing a Cael Sanderson type of career? In think it's legitimately debatable.

Of course I am projecting. It's a long time from now until Lee graduates. But barring injury, I just don't see anyone beating him.

(PS: Tina is my new name for Tom until I see posters on the Iowa board stop referring to Cael as Carl)

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

I disagree. Cory Clark was an incredible story, but they needed Lee to stay relevant. They would have been invisible last year without him. I am glad they did too, because I think college wrestling is better when they are good.

 

[Reslo]

Childish, misogynistic name-calling of opposing coaches is a phenomenon that serves no purpose except to give bwi a bad name.

Who cares what HR calls Cael? We should be better than that. Enjoy the amazing team and coaching staff we have.

 

[lionlover]

Childish, misogynistic name-calling of opposing coaches is a phenomenon that serves no purpose except to give bwi a bad name.

Who cares what HR calls Cael? We should be better than that. Enjoy the amazing team and coaching staff we have.

You made an excellent point Regina!

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

It's a silly debate IMO. Lee was ready to go, wanted to go, and cruised to a NC. It's probably that simple.

And, gee, while we're at it, let's stoop to the level of the bitter stooges on HR with juvenile name antics. Brilliant idea.

 

[BullPit]

Record breaking shouldn't be a focus. I'm glad it was pulled. Great NCAA run plus if Lee's red shirt wasn't pulled, does Psu win the Championship last year?

 

[Sportfan2017]

I think Terry and Tina Brands made a mistake in burning Lee's redshirt last year.

I honestly feel that Lee could have had a legitimate chance to challenge Cael Sanderson's record. He is the most complete 125 lber I have ever seen. I just don't see anyone beating him.

Right now Iowa is playing major catch up with Penn State. They need a huge boost in recruiting momentum. Sure, having Lee get four national championships will help boost them. But, producing someone with a better record than Gable and on par with Sanderson might have helped them more in the long run.

Was getting that one individual national championship from Lee last year worth sacrificing a Cael Sanderson type of career? In think it's legitimately debatable.

Of course I am projecting. It's a long time from now until Lee graduates. But barring injury, I just don't see anyone beating him.

(PS: Tina is my new name for Tom until I see posters on the Iowa board stop referring to Cael as Carl)

A. Burning Lee's redshirt got Iowa a team trophy. Finishing lower than 4th or 5th would hurt recruiting far worse
B. Perhaps Lee......like Mark Hall couldn't stand not to be wrestling and he absolutely wanted to go
C. Iowa has a really good recruiting class coming in.....along with Cassiopi waiting in the wings.
D. Just because some posters on HR refer to Cael as Carl …...should some of our posters do likewise with Tom or Terry? I would argue absolutely not. Why respond to childish & immature behavior by mirroring it? Criticizing a reflection is not a good look.
E. I don't see anyone beating Lee either but only Lee can describe his choices and accomplishments as "Sacrificing" Certainly he didn't view wrestling last year as sacrificing.

 

[lionlover]

A. Burning Lee's redshirt got Iowa a team trophy. Finishing 6th or 7th or 8th would hurt recruiting far worse
B. Perhaps Lee......like Mark Hall couldn't stand not to be wrestling and he absolutely wanted to go
C. Iowa has a really good recruiting class coming in.....along with Cassiopi waiting in the wings.
D. Just because some posters on HR refer to Cael as Carl …...should some of our posters do likewise with Tom or Terry? I would argue absolutely not. Why respond to childish & immature behavior by mirroring it? Criticizing a reflection is not a good look.
E. I don't see anyone beating Lee either but only Lee can describe his choices and accomplishments as "Sacrificing" Certainly he didn't view wrestling last year as sacrificing.

If you aren't in the running for the NC then what is the difference between 7th place and 3rd place? Comparing Hall's impact to PSU winning a natty vs Lee's impact to the team is apples and oranges.

With all due respect your recruiting isn't in the same ballpark as PSU. it doesn't even compare with OSU. Iowa needs every advantage it can get. Having Spencer make history could have made history! I really think Terry and Tina failed long term.

 

[El-Jefe]

Two very bad ideas in this thread:
1. Iowa can wait 4+ more years before improving recruiting, thus should've shirted Lee.
2. We should race to the bottom vs. HR..

 

[lionlover]

Two very bad ideas in this thread:
1. Iowa can wait 4+ more years before improving recruiting, thus should've shirted Lee.
2. We should race to the bottom vs. HR..

One very bad math application in this thread. I was only suggesting that Lee wait "one year" and redshirt. Please explain how that morphed into four years?

 

[Sportfan2017]

If you aren't in the running for the NC then what is the difference between 7th place and 3rd place? Comparing Hall's impact to PSU winning a natty vs Lee's impact to the team is apples and oranges.

With all due respect your recruiting isn't in the same ballpark as PSU. it doesn't even compare with OSU. Iowa needs every advantage it can get. Having Spencer make history could have made history! I really think Terry and Tina failed long term.

A. Penn State had Morelli......who was pretty highly ranked and Hall's points were not needed.
B. Please stop with the "Tina"
C. "Your" recruiting?? Goodness.....just because I don't trash Iowa does not make me an Iowa fan. I can tell you that my vertical was higher than yours when Bo decked Myles. Yes....I tore numerous ligaments...but.....I was up there

 

[James P. Whitters III]

Why would you call Mother Tomresa a nasty name like Tina? Brands has nothing to do with the wrestling or sitting of Spencer. Lee family calls all of the shots in terms of his career. That was a huge part of the recruiting pitch. He is treated nothing like the other wrestlers.

 

[oldcougar65]

it looks like lionlover had nothing better to do late on a Saturday night so he placed a few "bombs" on a message board - making illogical and insulting statements in order to draw a response. He's playing Saturday Night troll - a new drinking game for the emotionally illiterate.

 

[Ian]

Why would you call Mother Tomresa a nasty name like Tina? Brands has nothing to do with the wrestling or sitting of Spencer. Lee family calls all of the shots in terms of his career. That was a huge part of the recruiting pitch. He is treated nothing like the other wrestlers.

This is spot on and why he is a Hawkeye and not a Lion! See Suriano..... Cael runs the show not the families.

 

[nerfstate]

Anyone ever been to Iceland?

 

[Flying_Tiger]

I thought it was a risk pulling Lee's redshirt last year coming the off the injury but I understand why and it did pay dividends. Without him, they would of finished 5th or lower (no team trophy) and had no champions. A finish like that would of further diminished their reputation and recruiting.

That being said, if they do not win a team championship with him, I see trouble ahead. Spencer Lee is the kind of wrestler that should get a team like Iowa over the hump and after this season half his career is already over. No championship and their upward trend in recruiting will further slow and they don't have a guy that could duplicate his points in the pipeline (not many do).

 

[jrd23psu]

One very bad math application in this thread. I was only suggesting that Lee wait "one year" and redshirt. Please explain how that morphed into four years?

Tom and Terry would have to wait four years for Spencer to be an undefeated four timer for them to use that as a recruiting pitch. Spencer has to be an undefeated 4xer before they can put it on their coaching resume.

Right now they can tell recruits they can coach true freshman to national titles, which Iowa had never done before Lee (I believe). He already made history.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Not all young men envision spending 6 years of their lives in college. I write 6, because I think Spencer Lee will take an Olympic redshirt to have been added to his would be true freshman redshirt season.

I think it is best for all when a young wrestler's life goals align with his college choice and future coach's expectations. Generally speaking, I also think the team enterprise would be doomed should parents dictate how their wrestler sons must be treated.

Sure, take parents' and sons' thoughts and goals into consideration, but in no way cater or otherwise favor to the detriment of team and program.

 

[lookleft goright]

Having a superstar like Lee is not going to change the trajectory of the Hawks. In order to get the type of and number of recruits PSU and tOSU are getting, something else has to change. Lee wanted to be a Hawk because he wanted to be the best ever and he felt the Hawks had the best results with light weights, plus probably other things. Lee gives credibility to the Hawks again as the place for the best kids to go, but it will take more than that to get them back to the top.

If they would have planned his career over when he helped the team win a title again, he may have never wrestled. This year Kem is out and who knows if Stoll will ever be 100%. Next year - who can predict?

The kid was good enough to win a title and he did it. How can you think that was a mistake. Also, Lee has had a few injuries. Who is to say, he won't have another and have to sit out another year?

 

[Reslo]

Anyone ever been to Iceland?

Iceland is amazing! I highly recommend golfing at Seltjarnarnes, at the westernmost point of Reykjavik. Really cool location, but be prepared for wind! Iceland is beautiful, but also expensive. Totally worth it though.

 

[Cosmos]

Two very bad ideas in this thread:
1. Iowa can wait 4+ more years before improving recruiting, thus should've shirted Lee.
2. We should race to the bottom vs. HR..

^^ Why you're 'the boss'. ^^

 

[Cletus11]

i think that post makes no sense. the 'recruiting' bump from having a 4 time national champion and potential Hodge winner versus having a 4 time undefeated champion is about nothing.

 

[a_mshaffer]

do you have a plan?
THe Brands are competitive and nothing is a foregone conclusion - that is why they wrestle. Sure, may seem like long odds but I'm sure the Brands had confidence in their wrestlers.

 

[BoroBuilt]

I think Terry and Tina Brands made a mistake in burning Lee's redshirt last year.

I honestly feel that Lee could have had a legitimate chance to challenge Cael Sanderson's record. He is the most complete 125 lber I have ever seen. I just don't see anyone beating him.

Right now Iowa is playing major catch up with Penn State. They need a huge boost in recruiting momentum. Sure, having Lee get four national championships will help boost them. But, producing someone with a better record than Gable and on par with Sanderson might have helped them more in the long run.

Was getting that one individual national championship from Lee last year worth sacrificing a Cael Sanderson type of career? In think it's legitimately debatable.

Of course I am projecting. It's a long time from now until Lee graduates. But barring injury, I just don't see anyone beating him.

(PS: Tina is my new name for Tom until I see posters on the Iowa board stop referring to Cael as Carl)

Lee has stated many times that he prefers freestyle to folk. He sees ncaa competition as a stepping stone to international success. He would rather join Cael as an Olympic champion than go undefeated in college. Winning a title last year reinforced that he was ready. Questioning Tom and Spencer’s decision making now is childish and petty. If you are an adult re-evaluate yourself.

 

[RD41]

Anyone ever been to Iceland?

Not yet, however it is one of the places I am planning on visiting. We were trying to get a family vacation planned last year but could not get everyone's schedule on point which resulted in a scrapping of the plans. Will have to try again.

 

[LDandy]

Spencer won nationals as a true freshman. How was that a strategic error? So he's not undefeated, big deal. The odds are so low against it happening that only one man has ever done it. If guys start planning their careers primarily around the idea of not losing they will likely wrestle tight and be more apt to be upset. Worse yet they could feel pressure to duck better competition for fear of losing. Neither one of these outcomes will help build your brand or the sport in general. I'd rather my wrestlers let it fly like Bo or Jason who risk defeat now and again, but entertain and inspire the next generation of kids to do the same.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

it looks like lionlover had nothing better to do late on a Saturday night so he placed a few "bombs" on a message board - making illogical and insulting statements in order to draw a response.

There appears to be empirical evidence supporting this position.

 

[drock1971]

Isn’t this a message board for people to ask questions-State opinions-& get feedback?

I don’t get why some people go after people for asking questions -or throwing an opinion out there??

Not like he said Spencer should’ve have Redshirted & bumped to 184 to wrestle Shak or something insane.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Isn’t this a message board for people to ask questions-State opinions-& get feedback?

I don’t get why some people go after people for asking questions -or throwing an opinion out there??

Not like he said Spencer should’ve have Redshirted & bumped to 184 to wrestle Shak or something insane.

The source of the question needs to be part of the consideration. Lion has built up some self-inflicted ill will.

Plus, calling Tom, "Tina" is just plain dumb.