Breaking from Pennlive Curley and Shultz plead guilty.

[WeR0206]

Again, I asked yesterday, but do you have any legal proof at all that The Second Mile was "required to look into any and all incident reports" beyond the "reasonable cause" requirement for mandatory reporters in the child protective services law?

All state licensed childrens charities are required to look into any and all incident reports involving one of their employees and/or participants and make any reports to childline if needed. I don't have a link handy but @colt21 may be able to expand on this.

Also good luck arguing TSM didnt have reasonable cause to trigger their mandatory reporter status. They were told that a PSU GA witnessed an inappropriate 1:1 late night shower that made him uncomfortable and due to this behavior PSU was on JR's doorstep complaining and was revoking JS' guest privileges.

For any child care expert such as JR, hello red flags!! One could give the admins a pass for not recognizing this may have been a grooming incident but not Phd JR. He is and should be held to a higher standard.

 

[towny87.1]

Way to avoid my question and point AGAIN.

How could MM view TC favorably if what you are saying is true?? Way to just breeze past that...

If MM views TC favorably then that doesn't mesh with the reality that you are trying to paint.

Here's my question one more time. When did the admins approach MM and others to make sure none of you guys blew up their watered down report to TSM? How long did it take before you guys reailzed you were being given the run around and what did you do after figuring that out? Nothing?

Neither MM nor JM expressed any dissatisfaction to the admins when they had follow up convos which seems odd to me if MM felt his report of child rape was being slow played dont you think? MM was free to speak to LE whenever he wanted but never did until 9 yrs later. That makes zero sense if MM really was sure a kid was getting abused.

I'm trying to get some explanation from you for your claims to make any logical sense.

I guess you should delete your account too since you've long claimed the admins were guilty of obstruction, conspiracy, FTR, and perjury. You must be crushed the state is letting them walk with just a misdemeanor!

I know you save all of my posts so show me where in any of them I have stated the admins would be found guilty. I did predict that schultz would plea back before many of the charges were dropped on technicalities but he eventually did plea. I have said they lied, and they covered up jerry's incidents. Jerry is in jail and the admins have come clean which will show they did just that. Do I sound crushed because I am actually just the opposite.

If spanier takes this to court and if he is found guilty he could very well win on appeal on a technicality. There may not have been any specific laws at the time to telling someone you are investigating a report of CSA and not doing so just to avoid a real one, but that is for the legal system to decide. Just as I haven't complained about one ruling in the criminal proceedings or civil proceedings (other than the admins stalling both) I won't complain about any rulings/decisions in the future.

all the best to you.

 

[WeR0206]

I'll take a crack at it, it's stupid to pass the buck to an agency a month later when you have your own telephones, lawyers, and police.
Lawyers to advise on the law, police to take a statement, and phones to call it in. easy peezy.

Yes those resources were available and yet not once did MM ever make a statement to UPPD or insist on the admins calling in someone from UPPD to get his statement about this horrific rape he thought he saw...when TC followed up 4/5 days after their initial meeting and told him they were revoking guest privileges and telling TSM, MM was fine with that and never said more needed to be done. Apparently MM was also fine with waiting a week before even speaking to the admins initially.....fascinating.

 

[marshall23]

I find it odd that anyone who had contemporaneous knowledge of what MM claims to have witnessed and remained silent (not even an anonymous phone call) for 10 years could claim the moral high ground.

 

[coveydidnt]

I find it odd that anyone who had contemporaneous knowledge of what MM claims to have witnessed and remained silent (not even an anonymous phone call) for 10 years could claim the moral high ground.

If (big if) MM was told that the matter was turned over to investigators/authorities and that it may take a while .... and that if JS is cleared that Mike probably wouldn't ever hear anything ....

Then, Mike & anyone Mike might have told would wait & wait, and eventually, when nothing seemed to happen it would have been reasonable to conclude that the investigation was completed with no charges filed.

This would explain & justify Mike's ongoing participation in TSM events, etc ...

I'm not speaking for him, I don't know him, but that would be my expectation of what Mike was told. And my point is, he'd have been told exactly that even if the admins had reported.

 

[WeR0206]

I know you save all of my posts so show me where in any of them I have stated the admins would be found guilty. I did predict that schultz would plea back before many of the charges were dropped on technicalities but he eventually did plea. I have said they lied, and they covered up jerry's incidents. Jerry is in jail and the admins have come clean which will show they did just that. Do I sound crushed because I am actually just the opposite.

If spanier takes this to court and if he is found guilty he could very well win on appeal on a technicality. There may not have been any specific laws at the time to telling someone you are investigating a report of CSA and not doing so just to avoid a real one, but that is for the legal system to decide. Just as I haven't complained about one ruling in the criminal proceedings or civil proceedings (other than the admins stalling both) I won't complain about any rulings/decisions in the future.

all the best to you.

Way to avoid my question yet again. Still waiting for a logical answer to how the admins got you guys to never blow up their watered down report to TSM.

You said they lied and were involved in a coverup therefore you're accusing them of perjury, obstruction, and conspiracy, none of which they plead out too.

The admins could never conduct a "real one" because guess what, they were college admins not child sex abuse investigators or experts. If Mike wanted a child sex abuse investigator or expert looking into his story perhaps he should've given a statement directly to one of those folks in law-enforcement or CYS, etc. instead of bringing an off the record report to some college admins who could only really do an informal admin investigation. Mike never even went on the record with a written statement to the admin's for crying out loud, let alone anyone in LE!

When the admins supposedly came back to you guys and said there was nothing they could do, why would their non expert opinion matter one bit to you? You guys could have said thanks for looking into this but we're going to take it to UPPD, PSP, CYS, etc now.

 

[marshall23]

Way to avoid my question yet again. Still waiting for a logical answer to how the admins got you guys to never blow up their watered down report to TSM.

You said they lied and were involved in a coverup therefore you're accusing them of perjury, obstruction, and conspiracy, none of which they plead out too.

The admins could never conduct a "real one" because guess what, they were college admins not child sex abuse investigators or experts. If Mike wanted a child sex abuse investigator or expert looking into his story perhaps he should've given a statement directly to one of those folks in law-enforcement or CYS, etc. instead of some college admins who could only really do an informal admin investigation. Mike never even went on the record with a written statement to the admin's for crying out loud, let alone anyone in LE!

When the admins supposedly came back to you guys and said there was nothing they could do, why would their non expert opinion matter one bit to you? You guys could have said thanks for looking into this but we're going to take it to UPPD, PSP, CYS, etc now.

Those accusing folks deciding not "to rock the boat" apparently had reason to do exactly the same thing?

 

[marshall23]

If (big if) MM was told that the matter was turned over to investigators/authorities and that it may take a while .... and that if JS is cleared that Mike probably wouldn't ever hear anything ....

Then, Mike & anyone Mike might have told would wait & wait, and eventually, when nothing seemed to happen it would have been reasonable to conclude that the investigation was completed with no charges filed.

This would explain & justify Mike's ongoing participation in TSM events, etc ...
You are now officially in Stretch Armstrong territory.

I'm not speaking for him, I don't know him, but that would be my expectation of what Mike was told. And my point is, he'd have been told exactly that even if the admins had reported.

 

[scrpa]

Nobody that I know of said "years." Kane got 10-20 months.


We just got two new witnesses to lay out the coverup.

It may be enough for PSU to be off the hook for indemnifying Spanier. He'd lose tenure, if convicted

On Wednesday you noted, "We just got two new witnesses to lay out the coverup." "We"? OAG your client? It is the OAG that got the new witnesses, correct? Your freelance work?

You've been working on PennLive and CDT for years and now the McAndrew Board has allowed you to work on the Football Forum since January.

 

[Stufftodo]

On Wednesday you noted, "We just got two new witnesses to lay out the coverup." "We"? OAG your client? It is the OAG that got the new witnesses, correct? Your freelance work?

You've been working on PennLive and CDT for years and now the McAndrew Board has allowed you to work on the Football Forum since January.

We,the general public. It is called the editorial we.

I'm not "working" on this, or any, board. I'm posting.

Of course, I'm open to offers.

 

[wensilver]

Mike never even went on the record with a written statement to the admin's for crying out loud, let alone anyone in LE!

You make a good point. It's unfortunate that Mike did not take steps to ensure PSU admin had written documentation of the incident seeing that he was not able to properly verbalize it for Joe.

Disclaimer: I am of the long-held opinion that Mike was used by the OAG and his life & career aspirations destroyed as a result - when it didn't have to be. I place the entire blame of this shitstorm on Tom Corbett & his head gunslinger Frank Fina.

However, I am having a hard time reconciling Mike's actions here in 2001 with the steps he took in 2004 to document Kenny Carter's behavior and give that documentation to Joe. From what I understand Mike was able to secure emails between Carter and a female in the football office , illustrating Carter's extramarital affair as an assistant coach. Joe was able to take action with Carter as a result.

Why didn't Mike simply write down what he observed that night in 2001 and give it to Joe? If he couldn't verbalize "sex in the shower", he could have written it down for Joe. Why didn't he just take Tim and/or Gary to the "scene of the crime" and show them how, when and where?

We can armchair quarterback, and it's beating a dead horse at this point. None of us would ever want to be in Mike's shoes. But I simply can't ascribe to any "cover up" on the part of the Admins.

We shall see this upcoming week.

 

[towny87.1]

You make a good point. It's unfortunate that Mike did not take steps to ensure PSU admin had written documentation of the incident seeing that he was not able to properly verbalize it for Joe.

Disclaimer: I am of the long-held opinion that Mike was used by the OAG and his life & career aspirations destroyed as a result - when it didn't have to be. I place the entire blame of this shitstorm on Tom Corbett & his head gunslinger Frank Fina.

However, I am having a hard time reconciling Mike's actions here in 2001 with the steps he took in 2004 to document Kenny Carter's behavior and give that documentation to Joe. From what I understand Mike was able to secure emails between Carter and a female in the football office , illustrating Carter's extramarital affair as an assistant coach. Joe was able to take action with Carter as a result.

Why didn't Mike simply write down what he observed that night in 2001 and give it to Joe? If he couldn't verbalize "sex in the shower", he could have written it down for Joe. Why didn't he just take Tim and/or Gary to the "scene of the crime" and show them how, when and where?

We can armchair quarterback, and it's beating a dead horse at this point. None of us would ever want to be in Mike's shoes. But I simply can't ascribe to any "cover up" on the part of the Admins.

We shall see this upcoming week.

If you mean by Kenny Carter's behavior with a "women in the football office" as in with two of the lionizer girls and by "obtaining emails" you mean a pissed off father showing up at the lasch building showing emails where the girls told kenny to go away and he wouldn't and if you mean by joe dealing with it as in Kenny being forced out of PSU and going off to vanderbilt as a highly recommended PSU wide receiver coach. Other than that you pretty much had everything dead on with the Kenny Carter thingy.

but you also forgot to mention that to Tim's credit in 2004 (just after Kenny Carter was sent away) he was part of the NCAA committee that year that changed the rules and no longer allowing girls like the lionizers to be used by the football teams to "assist" in recruiting.

 

[WeR0206]

You make a good point. It's unfortunate that Mike did not take steps to ensure PSU admin had written documentation of the incident seeing that he was not able to properly verbalize it for Joe.

Disclaimer: I am of the long-held opinion that Mike was used by the OAG and his life & career aspirations destroyed as a result - when it didn't have to be. I place the entire blame of this shitstorm on Tom Corbett & his head gunslinger Frank Fina.

However, I am having a hard time reconciling Mike's actions here in 2001 with the steps he took in 2004 to document Kenny Carter's behavior and give that documentation to Joe. From what I understand Mike was able to secure emails between Carter and a female in the football office , illustrating Carter's extramarital affair as an assistant coach. Joe was able to take action with Carter as a result.

Why didn't Mike simply write down what he observed that night in 2001 and give it to Joe? If he couldn't verbalize "sex in the shower", he could have written it down for Joe. Why didn't he just take Tim and/or Gary to the "scene of the crime" and show them how, when and where?

We can armchair quarterback, and it's beating a dead horse at this point. None of us would ever want to be in Mike's shoes. But I simply can't ascribe to any "cover up" on the part of the Admins.

We shall see this upcoming week.

Exactly. I agree that MM was used but like you, I don't really buy the passive cover up/watered down report to TSM angle spouted by Towny. MM and everyone he spoke to could have blown up the admins "cover up" at any time by going directly to TSM, CYS, PSP, etc.. To me since MM couldn't verify any suspicions he may have had, MM/JM/Dr. D all seemed happy with the admins response of revoking guest privileges and informing TSM and MM was apparently ok with never making a written statement to anyone at PSU let alone LE.

But yes, ultimately everything goes back to corrupt corbett, fina, et al. and TSM. The fact they have been allowed to ride off into the sunset unscathed is outrageous.

 

[UncleLar]

Why didn't Mike simply write down what he observed that night in 2001 and give it to Joe? If he couldn't verbalize "sex in the shower", he could have written it down for Joe. Why didn't he just take Tim and/or Gary to the "scene of the crime" and show them how, when and where?

"With the benefit of hindsight", I'm sure he wishes he had.

 

[Zenophile]

Be patient on this.

Roger that.

Any updates?

 

[artsandletters]

Hasn't it been confirmed that McQueary's meeting with Curley/Schultz occurred several days after he met with Paterno, which would have exceeded the 48 hour clock? Given that information, McQueary's meeting with Paterno was the only possibility for him to report anything to a superior within the legal time frame.

Didn't McQueary also testify that he was intentionally vague when meeting with Paterno? To my knowledge, there is no factual evidence as to exactly what McQueary said in that meeting. I believe the only evidence we have is 2010/2011 testimony from both parties, and one of those pieces of testimony stated that the message was watered down. Therefore, it's not unreasonable to conclude that even today it is unclear whether McQueary reported sexual abuse or horseplay when meeting with Paterno.

If McQueary witnessed a rape but reported a lesser situation (intentionally or unintentionally) in his only meeting with a supervisor during the 48 hour window, was his legal obligation fulfilled?

Secondly, surely even you would agree that witnessing a child being abused and walking away without calling 911 or intervening is more morally reprehensible than Paterno's actions (or lack thereof), particularly when considering that Paterno was not even presented with an opportunity to intervene while the criminal activity was taking place.

if you mean by "hypocrisy" that I was right about the admins lying to investigators and before the grand jury in 2011 and that they were only pretending to investigate to intentionally prevent a real one, then yes that's me.

last week the admins gave completely "revised" statements to investigators and Monday they made it official in front of a judge with their guilty plea. They finally came clean and you and your little gang of misinformed wishful thinking misfits won't be able to spin your way out of it.

You, towny, are one of the reasons we are here 5.5 years later.

 

[artsandletters]

lol, don't worry. He never really puts anybody on ignore, he just says it. He craves the attention far to much to actually go through with it.

You must be talking about the board jackass, Gunsie. I have him on ignore for some time now but the description is a giveaway.

 

[21.Guns]

You must be talking about the board jackass, Gunsie. I have him on ignore for some time now but the description is a giveaway.

 

[interrobang]

Passing a watered down report to TSM is like having your car totaled and telling your insurance agency it was just a fender bender.

 

[kentuckycb]

"With the benefit of hindsight", I'm sure he wishes he had.

Then he should have been saying that the past 5 years.

 

[marshall23]

First I heard of Mike in the middle of the Kenny Carter saga. Ironic. The lesson appears not to have been learned.

 

[UncleLar]

Then he should have been saying that the past 5 years.

Really? How'd that work out for Paterno? Regardless of what he might think, publicly making that statement would be foolish. It would be twisted by everyone and used against him just like Paterno's comment has been.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

If (big if) MM was told that the matter was turned over to investigators/authorities and that it may take a while .... and that if JS is cleared that Mike probably wouldn't ever hear anything ....

Then, Mike & anyone Mike might have told would wait & wait, and eventually, when nothing seemed to happen it would have been reasonable to conclude that the investigation was completed with no charges filed.

This would explain & justify Mike's ongoing participation in TSM events, etc ...

I'm not speaking for him, I don't know him, but that would be my expectation of what Mike was told. And my point is, he'd have been told exactly that even if the admins had reported.

Or....... Victim 2, Dranov, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, and everyone else in the galaxy made a statement or were told by MM it was "horsing around", "horseplay", "wrestling", etc, etc, etc.

When the Victim's Statement matches up almost to a T with the unrelated person it was reported to first (Dranov), it tells me Mike wasn't too concerned about the "investigation" until 2010 when his reported alleged extracurricular activities more than likely came back to haunt him.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Again, I asked yesterday, but do you have any legal proof at all that The Second Mile was "required to look into any and all incident reports" beyond the "reasonable cause" requirement for mandatory reporters in the child protective services law?

Of course not. We all know that the the REAL trained and licensed "Professionals" have been expertly advised to instruct that all potential pedophiles wear "swim trunks" when they are alone in the shower with a kid.

 

[royboy]

Really? How'd that work out for Paterno? Regardless of what he might think, publicly making that statement would be foolish. It would be twisted by everyone and used against him just like Paterno's comment has been.

Well, that's a silly comparison. Did you forget that Joe Paterno has been unable to speak further over the last 5 years, due to being dead?

 

[bdgan]

Or....... Victim 2, Dranov, Curley, Spanier, Schultz, and everyone else in the galaxy made a statement or were told by MM it was "horsing around", "horseplay", "wrestling", etc, etc, etc.

Agree. Seems to me you have 3 scenarios:

1. MM gave a vague report to everybody.
2. MM gave a specific report (ie. anal rape) to everybody andevery single one of them lied to cover their rear ends.
3. MM gave a vague report to his dad & Dranov but spilled his guts to C&S. He also never circled back with more details to his dad or Dranov at a later date.

Which scenario sounds most likely?

 

[McNit2]

This is awful.

Its more than awful - assuming it sis true, it is down right frightening! Lives ruined with no evidence (in fact evidence to refute!)! Enough to make most people (if they knew this) avoid ever volunteering to work with kids (coaching, scouts, etc.).