Brunson counter "headlock"

[El-Jefe]

Thanks to Slush over at FOS for pointing this out: there's a reason Nickal wasn't able to throw Brunson with that headlock -- Brunson applied a "headlock" of his own.

You can see it at about 6:05 of Annie's video:

and at about 1:00 of the Flo highlights reel: http://www.flowrestling.org/video/902524-174-m-zac-brunson-illinois-vs-bo-nickal-psu

Hint: look down.

He held it for about 5 sec. No idea how two non-average referees could miss it for that long. Must have been looking up.

Makes me that much happier Nickal decked him.

 

[garw]

love watching that match.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

Thanks to Slush over at FOS for pointing this out: there's a reason Nickal wasn't able to throw Brunson with that headlock -- Brunson applied a "headlock" of his own.

You can see it at about 6:05 of Annie's video:

View embedded media

and at about 1:00 of the Flo highlights reel: http://www.flowrestling.org/video/902524-174-m-zac-brunson-illinois-vs-bo-nickal-psu

Hint: look down.

He held it for about 5 sec. No idea how two non-average referees could miss it for that long. Must have been looking up.

Makes me that much happier Nickal decked him.

Ouch! Wondered why Bo didn't do anything with that lock. Now I know why.

 

[jtothemfp]

Dude must have been pretty desperate with his other arm & head trapped there. But um yeah: super blatant. Here's a gif of the grab, the back out and failed second grab attempt:

 

[Annieat285]

Edit: Was going to include time-stamp, but the gif did illustrated the point better. In the future El-Jefe, if you click "share" beneath the video you can get a unique link which leads specifically to the moment in the video you want.

I think the officiating was pretty good during the match, but I do feel as if the rules need to be amended to make the second official a more active participant in officiating the match. Amongst other things, he should be permitted to either immediately check for and call the pin when a wrestler goes to their back or to count swipes while the main referee does the former. This just shows that when the referee's focus is in one place, (the wrestler's upper bodies in this instance) they will inevitably miss things going on elsewhere.

 

[seeyajohn]

What is the correct call and when should it be made in this situation?

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

What is the correct call and when should it be made in this situation?

Penalty point for an illegal hold I'd imagine

 

[NoVa Lion]

Penalty point for an illegal hold I'd imagine

Or a point for unsportsmanlike conduct. Not sure that the list of illegal holds in the rules includes nut grabbing.

 

[El-Jefe]

Nickal should be applauded for keeping his composure and focus.

Something similar happened back in HS: my teammate was bitten below the belt, hard enough to leave bite marks. He reacted by punching the opponent. Lost by DQ, suspended by the PIAA for (I think) minimum 2 matches, and ineligible to return until he apologized to the biter.

 

[RoarLions1]

I would think Unnecessary Roughness, or in extreme cases Flagrant Misconduct.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Something similar happened back in HS: my teammate was bitten below the belt, hard enough to leave bite marks. He reacted by punching the opponent. Lost by DQ, suspended by the PIAA for (I think) minimum 2 matches, and ineligible to return until he apologized to the biter.

High school rules have changed a bit. It used to be that the ref had to see someone biting another wrestler to call that. The problem with that is that often the head is buried, so the ref couldn't see if someone was biting. Now, all that a ref needs is evidence of a bite.

In the situation you described were to take place today, and your teammate showed the bite marks to the ref, then both wrestlers would be DQed. As for the punishment, it would be a minimum of 1 match, but the actual length of the punishment would be determined by the AD. (The ref submits a report to the PIAA, which then forwards the report to the school of the DQed wrestler, and the AD must meet with the wrestler and determine the length of the punishment before they are allowed to participate in a competition.)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

What is the correct call and when should it be made in this situation?

Penalty point for an illegal hold I'd imagine

Or a point for unsportsmanlike conduct. Not sure that the list of illegal holds in the rules includes nut grabbing.

I would think Unnecessary Roughness, or in extreme cases Flagrant Misconduct.

Hmm, that's a good question. I checked the rule books, and it's not specifically addressed. I'll check with a college ref and post what he indicates should be called for such an action.

Of the answers offered so far, I'd say illegal hold and unsportsmanlike conduct are the most unlikely. For illegal holds, each type of illegal hold is specified in the rules. There are no generic rules in the section on illegal holds. Unsportsmanlike conduct is somewhat more generic, and can be for a number of actions. While it can be called before, during, or after a match, the focus of this rule is on actions that are demeaning to the opponent or to the ref.

I think Roar's answer is most likely the accurate one. He offered flagrant misconduct or unnecessary roughness as the 2 most likely calls. A pretty strong case could be made for either of these calls being made by the ref for a situation of grabbing an opponents junk.

FWIW, I actually noticed the action that is being called out in this thread while it was happening in Nickal's thread, and mentioned it to the person with whom I was watching the dual. That said, I didn't think a penalty was missed by the ref while watching it on TV, and my review of these videos confirms that in my mind. Brunson does reach into Nickal's crotch, but my take is he was doing so as a pry. You can see the ends of Brunson's fingers, which are past Nickal's junk, and as such I don't think Nickal was ever grabbled. In that regard, Brunson's actions are no different than a number of other moves which potentially put pressure on the crotch, but are not illegal.

 

[clucas]

There's no penalty for a "butt drag" where it can get quite uncomfortable with where the fingers are placed in that situation...just saying

 

[RoarLions1]

Hmm, that's a good question. I checked the rule books, and it's not specifically addressed. I'll check with a college ref and post what he indicates should be called for such an action.

Of the answers offered so far, I'd say illegal hold and unsportsmanlike conduct are the most unlikely. For illegal holds, each type of illegal hold is specified in the rules. There are no generic rules in the section on illegal holds. Unsportsmanlike conduct is somewhat more generic, and can be for a number of actions. While it can be called before, during, or after a match, the focus of this rule is on actions that are demeaning to the opponent or to the ref.

I think Roar's answer is most likely the accurate one. He offered flagrant misconduct or unnecessary roughness as the 2 most likely calls. A pretty strong case could be made for either of these calls being made by the ref for a situation of grabbing an opponents junk.

FWIW, I actually noticed the action that is being called out in this thread while it was happening in Nickal's thread, and mentioned it to the person with whom I was watching the dual. That said, I didn't think a penalty was missed by the ref while watching it on TV, and my review of these videos confirms that in my mind. Brunson does reach into Nickal's crotch, but my take is he was doing so as a pry. You can see the ends of Brunson's fingers, which are past Nickal's junk, and as such I don't think Nickal was ever grabbled. In that regard, Brunson's actions are no different than a number of other moves which potentially put pressure on the crotch, but are not illegal.

Tom, before posting I looked it up in the Rulebook. Couldn't see the fit with Unsportsmanlike Conduct, but did find it loosely fit the 2 I noted. Good idea to get a ref's perspective. Flagrant Misconduct would be a blatant attempt to injure the opponent, so it would only be applied in extreme cases, my opinion only.

 

[Cowbell Man]

There's no penalty for a "butt drag" where it can get quite uncomfortable with where the fingers are placed in that situation...just saying

Brunson's actions are certainly not an illegal hold, though there may be some moral implications....lol. But I digress...

We use many holds that include fierce contact with the dangly bits but not actually a grab. Brunson is, despite the grab, attempting to counter by driving the arm through as would be done. It really is Nickal's length (poorly used term here) that keeps him from reaching further to grab or leverage the back of the thigh. With that in place, he can either maintain the block or attempt an instep, pick the leg and crank over the head where his arm already is. (though he's in a bit awkward position for that, as Bo could go to his right and down instead of the obvious left)

As nefarious as we'd like to make it....it is simply a counter that he can't make properly because Bo is so...tall! I guess the counter worked though.

Should it have been called? Perhaps, but maybe a warning with stoppage as would be with eye poking.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Tom, before posting I looked it up in the Rulebook. Couldn't see the fit with Unsportsmanlike Conduct, but did find it loosely fit the 2 I noted. Good idea to get a ref's perspective. Flagrant Misconduct would be a blatant attempt to injure the opponent, so it would only be applied in extreme cases, my opinion only.

IMHO the Unsportsmanlike Conduct rules seem to apply although the language is vague and general. See the bolded portion below.


5.4 Unsportsmanlike Conduct


5.4.1 Description of Unsportsmanlike Conduct. Unsportsmanlike conduct can

occur before, during or after a match. It may include, but is not limited to,

such acts as swearing, baiting an opponent, throwing headgear, failure to

stop on the whistle, indicating displeasure with a call, excessive celebration

involving a vulgar act or failing to comply with postmatch procedures.

Intentional breaches of decorum shall not be tolerated. This includes

such acts as spitting or blowing of the nose (into other than designated

receptacles and repositories), uniform straps down while still on the

wrestling area or other acts generally considered to be distasteful to


spectators, coaches and fellow competitors. Such acts shall be penalized as


unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[Dogwelder]

Cowbell wrote:
> We use many holds that include fierce contact
> with the dangly bits but not actually a grab.

In high school, we were taught the "wrist and crotch" ride that had the top man cupping the bottom man's parts. Nick Nevills used that ride a lot in high school. My old coach says he doesn't teach high school wrestlers that move, anymore, because probably somebody would be grossed out, and he would get fired.

Anyhow, I don't know how a referee would know whether the top man, or Brunson in this case, actually squeezed (unsportsmanlike) or just had his hand there for a legitimate positional reason. It almost seems as if the victim has to complain to let the referee know that there was an unsportsmanlike squeeze. And should the referee believe the complainer? It seems a tough scenario to referee, unless we outlaw hand on the parts altogether.

 

[psualt]

There's no penalty for a "butt drag" where it can get quite uncomfortable with where the fingers are placed in that situation...just saying

Did you see how it affected Conaway when Richards did it?

 

[SetonHallPirate]

This discussion makes me wonder if wearing a protective cup is legal in wrestling.

 

[clucas]

This discussion makes me wonder if wearing a protective cup is legal in wrestling.

A cup could be a weapon in wrestling...I mean consider when you're in the neutral position and sprawling from a takedown attempt on top of the opponents head.. ouch. Or when Zain throws both legs in from the top position..."is that your cup in the middle of my lower back or are you just happy to be riding me like a rented mule??

 

[WildTurk]

This move shall now be referred to as "The Brunson"

 

[clucas]

This move shall now be referred to as "The Brunson"

Kind of like Munson from Kingpin...you got "Brunsoned"

 

[T J]

This move shall now be referred to as "The Brunson"

or more scientifically... "A Brunson Burner"

 

[katsujinken]

That's the old Nebraskan illegal fist to the nuts.