BTN Football in 60!

[ILLINOISLION]

Just watched the second half again.....I don’t know why I do this to myself.

Barkley was wide open at least four times for passes out in the flat. Was wide open on our final fourth down incompletion.....two plays after McSorley’s intentional grounding. McSorley’s not even looking for him.

Allen blitzing from 10 yds back....the late low hit was an easy call. Exactly like the one called on MSU a little earlier. The final gift of the game to MSU.

So usually when a FG is blocked, it’s because of pressure up the middle, right? We had 7 players lined up outside the uprights, only 4 lined up in the middle where the call had to go if it was going to be good. Of the 4 players in the middle, only 2 actually tried to block the FG, the other 2 simply shifted to the left as if watching for a fake.

In a game ending situation like this, you gotta sell out with everything you have up the middle, not rush 2 guys. And why not put Gesicki in the middle right over the center. With the way he can jump, he should be jumping away like crazy even before the ball is snapped just to maybe rattle the kicker.

This game was so so so so very winnable.....makes me sick to my stomach.

 

[psu00]

Just watched the second half again.....I don’t know why I do this to myself.

Barkley was wide open at least four times for passes out in the flat. Was wide open on our final fourth down incompletion.....two plays after McSorley’s intentional grounding. McSorley’s not even looking for him.

This is a big problem. Your all everything Heisman contender with incredible skills and you're not even looking for him.

 

[grinagrin]

Just watched the second half again.....I don’t know why I do this to myself.

Barkley was wide open at least four times for passes out in the flat. Was wide open on our final fourth down incompletion.....two plays after McSorley’s intentional grounding. McSorley’s not even looking for him.

Allen blitzing from 10 yds back....the late low hit was an easy call. Exactly like the one called on MSU a little earlier. The final gift of the game to MSU.

So usually when a FG is blocked, it’s because of pressure up the middle, right? We had 7 players lined up outside the uprights, only 4 lined up in the middle where the call had to go if it was going to be good. Of the 4 players in the middle, only 2 actually tried to block the FG, the other 2 simply shifted to the left as if watching for a fake.

In a game ending situation like this, you gotta sell out with everything you have up the middle, not rush 2 guys. And why not put Gesicki in the middle right over the center. With the way he can jump, he should be jumping away like crazy even before the ball is snapped just to maybe rattle the kicker.

This game was so so so so very winnable.....makes me sick to my stomach.

This is a big problem. Your all everything Heisman contender with incredible skills and you're not even looking for him.

On passing plays Barkley stays in to help
protect more than half the time. Why not send the best player in college football out in space into most likely 1 on 1 coverage against a LB?

 

[ILLINOISLION]

On passing plays Barkley stays in to help
protect more than half the time. Why not send the best player in college football out in space into most likely 1 on 1 coverage against a LB?

Bump a rusher and release, there’s never a linebacker within 10 yds.

 

[grinagrin]

Just watched the second half again.....I don’t know why I do this to myself.

Barkley was wide open at least four times for passes out in the flat. Was wide open on our final fourth down incompletion.....two plays after McSorley’s intentional grounding. McSorley’s not even looking for him.

Allen blitzing from 10 yds back....the late low hit was an easy call. Exactly like the one called on MSU a little earlier. The final gift of the game to MSU.

So usually when a FG is blocked, it’s because of pressure up the middle, right? We had 7 players lined up outside the uprights, only 4 lined up in the middle where the call had to go if it was going to be good. Of the 4 players in the middle, only 2 actually tried to block the FG, the other 2 simply shifted to the left as if watching for a fake.

In a game ending situation like this, you gotta sell out with everything you have up the middle, not rush 2 guys. And why not put Gesicki in the middle right over the center. With the way he can jump, he should be jumping away like crazy even before the ball is snapped just to maybe rattle the kicker.

This game was so so so so very winnable.....makes me sick to my stomach.

I was saying the exact same thing to myself about the way they lined up against the last second field goal. Didn’t understand why they didn’t come hard down the middle for a field goal block.

 

[psuro]

Why don't they just run the Power I formation like we tell them to?

 

[Omar81]

McSorley missed the easy throw to a wide open Barkley on the 4th down at the end, so it's no surprise to hear that he missed him other times also. Pitiful.

 

[joro]

McSorley missed the easy throw to a wide open Barkley on the 4th down at the end, so it's no surprise to hear that he missed him other times also. Pitiful.

Well then the coaches in the booth should be calling that play.

 

[bsmith51]

McSorley missed the easy throw to a wide open Barkley on the 4th down at the end, so it's no surprise to hear that he missed him other times also. Pitiful.

Have you ever heard of progressions? If Barkley is the third or fourth progression on a play (as RBs typically are), the QB doesn’t look his way unless the other progressions are covered. It’s easy to say a QB missed someone when you don’t know their progressions or how a route runner factored into pattern. I suppose you could complain about Barkley being a third or fourth progressions but that is a play design issue.

 

[Omar81]

Have you ever heard of progressions? If Barkley is the third or fourth progression on a play (as RBs typically are), the QB doesn’t look his way unless the other progressions are covered. It’s easy to say a QB missed someone when you don’t know their progressions or how a route runner factored into pattern. I suppose you could complain about Barkley being a third or fourth progressions but that is a play design issue.

Either way, it was an epic fail. And in addition to progressions, there's something called recognizing the defense. And in response to joro, the play was called and the play was there.

 

[bsmith51]

Either way, it was an epic fail. And in addition to progressions, there's something called recognizing the defense. And in response to joro, the play was called and the play was there.

Got it. A qb hits his first progression in the hands. It’s a play the WR makes 99 out of 100 Times. But the QB should have disregarded his progressions and focus solely on the person who usually gets the most attention from defenses. Makes sense to me. SMH.

We have a west coast based passing system. It is based on pre snap and post snap reads. QBs have specific progressions. If the initial progressions weren’t open, then the qb will look to check it down to RB or run. That is how it works. I would like to see the ball go more to Barkley in the passing game. But Barkley’s touches in the passing game is largely based on play design and play calls.

 

[BBrown]

Have you ever heard of progressions? If Barkley is the third or fourth progression on a play (as RBs typically are), the QB doesn’t look his way unless the other progressions are covered. It’s easy to say a QB missed someone when you don’t know their progressions or how a route runner factored into pattern. I suppose you could complain about Barkley being a third or fourth progressions but that is a play design issue.

+1000. My only "gripe" would be that he should probably be first in the progression.
Especially if he has been open throughout the game and the coaches in the booth told the staff.

 

[BBrown]

Got it. A qb hits his first progression in the hands. It’s a play the WR makes 99 out of 100 Times. But the QB should have disregarded his progressions and focus solely on the person who usually gets the most attention from defenses. Makes sense to me. SMH.

We have a west coast based passing system. It is based on pre snap and post snap reads. QBs have specific progressions. If the initial progressions weren’t open, then the qb will look to check it down to RB or run. That is how it works. I would like to see the ball go more to Barkley in the passing game. But Barkley’s touches in the passing game is largely based on play design and play calls.

Agree. While it wasn't a perfect pass its a pass that a WR and one that has good hands like Thompson does has made in the past.
Bottom line the play was there and if anyone watched the player interviews both of them said as much.

 

[sluggo72]

Got it. A qb hits his first progression in the hands. It’s a play the WR makes 99 out of 100 Times. But the QB should have disregarded his progressions and focus solely on the person who usually gets the most attention from defenses. Makes sense to me. SMH.

We have a west coast based passing system. It is based on pre snap and post snap reads. QBs have specific progressions. If the initial progressions weren’t open, then the qb will look to check it down to RB or run. That is how it works. I would like to see the ball go more to Barkley in the passing game. But Barkley’s touches in the passing game is largely based on play design and play calls.

do we read low to high, or high to low?

 

[Omar81]

Got it. A qb hits his first progression in the hands. It’s a play the WR makes 99 out of 100 Times. But the QB should have disregarded his progressions and focus solely on the person who usually gets the most attention from defenses. Makes sense to me. SMH.

We have a west coast based passing system. It is based on pre snap and post snap reads. QBs have specific progressions. If the initial progressions weren’t open, then the qb will look to check it down to RB or run. That is how it works. I would like to see the ball go more to Barkley in the passing game. But Barkley’s touches in the passing game is largely based on play design and play calls.

I think you're stretching in quite a bit on the 99 out of 100 -- the throw was not that good. As for pre-snap and post-snap reads, it would have been nice for McSorley to have read that his best player would be uncovered, and was in fact a wide open and stationary target right in front of him, rather than try to rifle a longer slant to a moving target who was covered.

I think we agree that Barkley should get the ball more in the passing game, and hope we agree that Barkley should get the ball in the running game outside the tackles/in space instead of stationary handoffs inside the box and five yards deep in the backfield.

 

[royboy]

Yeah, there were a number of turning points and "what-ifs" in that game.

I'm still mostly disappointed in the defense, giving up 400 yards passing and so many 3rd and long situations being converted by MSU.

 

[BBrown]

I think you're stretching in quite a bit on the 99 out of 100 -- the throw was not that good. As for pre-snap and post-snap reads, it would have been nice for McSorley to have read that his best player would be uncovered, and was in fact a wide open and stationary target right in front of him, rather than try to rifle a longer slant to a moving target who was covered.

I think we agree that Barkley should get the ball more in the passing game, and hope we agree that Barkley should get the ball in the running game outside the tackles/in space instead of stationary handoffs inside the box and five yards deep in the backfield.

Just a gut feeling but I think we see a lot of Barkley in the both the run game and pass game this Sat.
I'm thinking big game from him.
Maybe even another KR for a TD.

 

[BBrown]

Yeah, there were a number of turning points and "what-ifs" in that game.

I'm still mostly disappointed in the defense, giving up 400 yards passing and so many 3rd and long situations being converted by MSU.

Especially some of those 3rd and long conversions. Without a pass rush though its tough for the secondary.

 

[bsmith51]

do we read low to high, or high to low?

Don’t know. We tend to throw the ball down field so I assume it is more high to low. But I would think the progressions vary depending on play call as well as pre snap and post snap reads. The 4th down play was a quick pass. I would imagine that Thompkins was the first option on the quick slant and Hamilton the second.

 

[bsmith51]

I think you're stretching in quite a bit on the 99 out of 100 -- the throw was not that good. As for pre-snap and post-snap reads, it would have been nice for McSorley to have read that his best player would be uncovered, and was in fact a wide open and stationary target right in front of him, rather than try to rifle a longer slant to a moving target who was covered.

I think we agree that Barkley should get the ball more in the passing game, and hope we agree that Barkley should get the ball in the running game outside the tackles/in space instead of stationary handoffs inside the box and five yards deep in the backfield.

Thompkins gets that ball 99 out of 100 Times IMO. And most college OCs would castrate their QB if they called a play in a crucial situation that was there but the QB overruled him by ignoring his progressions. I also think some folks don’t understand how quick these decisions are made. Once a ball is snapped, a QB usually don’t not have time to casually scan the field to see the best option. They have to rip through their progressions. If a slant is early in the progression and it’s open, then that is where the QBs needs to go. Agree on Barkley getting more touches in passing game. I also think we need to utilize Gesicki much more in short yardage and red zone.

 

[sluggo72]

Yeah, there were a number of turning points and "what-ifs" in that game.

I'm still mostly disappointed in the defense, giving up 400 yards passing and so many 3rd and long situations being converted by MSU.

while a rush certainly would help, it seems everyone on pass defense took a turn in being out of position
3-11 cover 3 complete not much wrong, the O does win sometime
3-19 cover 3 though it looks like #2 is man to man on an inside receiver gain 20
3-10 cover man free, hits the crosser, #15 looking in the backfield
rain delay
3-4 cover man to man, screen type play +5 O just won
3-18 cover 4 3 guys coverage on wr, looks like #6 loses leverage and is out of position gain +36
3-11 cover man free, #15 beat
3-9 cover 3 S/S to the flat +15
3-4 cover ??? full blitz looks like they m/m on the WR zone underneath gain +7 ??
I think they varied their coverages enough, just different guys taking turns doing something wrong.

in 18 min here are the big plays

 

[sluggo72]

I think you're stretching in quite a bit on the 99 out of 100 -- the throw was not that good. As for pre-snap and post-snap reads, it would have been nice for McSorley to have read that his best player would be uncovered, and was in fact a wide open and stationary target right in front of him, rather than try to rifle a longer slant to a moving target who was covered.

I think we agree that Barkley should get the ball more in the passing game, and hope we agree that Barkley should get the ball in the running game outside the tackles/in space instead of stationary handoffs inside the box and five yards deep in the backfield.

if this is the play in question, TM makes the right read and throw, could have the throw been better? sure, should have it been caught? well ...