Cael's All time team

[Verolion]

Slow time, sorry if this has done before. I'm sure it has.
Cael's All Time Line up Team.

125 Nico 1x NC is a no brainer, no other won NC
133 RBY 2x NC another easy choice.
141 Nick Lee 2x NC, but Zain has wrestled the weight
149 Zain Retherford, 3x NC no competition. I think Frank Molinaro did win at this weight but 1x NC.
157 Jason Nolf, 3x NC, edges David Taylor 2x
165 David Taylor 2x, edges out Vincenzo Joseph 2x
174 Carter Starocci 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x and Bo Nickal 3x
184 Aaron Brooks 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x, Quinton Wright 2x and Bo Nickal 3x
197 Bo Nickal 3x NC, edges Quinton Wright 2x
285 Greg Kerkvliet 1x NC, no competition

I didn't bring up many 1 time NC because their weight class had 3x winners. Hard to believe Quinton and Ed Ruth didn't make the line up.

 

[Random4598375]

Slow time, sorry if this has done before. I'm sure it has.
Cael's All Time Line up Team.

125 Nico 1x NC is a no brainer, no other won NC
133 RBY 2x NC another easy choice.
141 Nick Lee 2x NC, but Zain has wrestled the weight
149 Zain Retherford, 3x NC no competition. I think Frank Molinaro did win at this weight but 1x NC.
157 Jason Nolf, 3x NC, edges David Taylor 2x
165 David Taylor 2x, edges out Vincenzo Joseph 2x
174 Carter Starocci 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x and Bo Nickal 3x
184 Aaron Brooks 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x, Quinton Wright 2x and Bo Nickal 3x
197 Bo Nickal 3x NC, edges Quinton Wright 2x
285 Greg Kerkvliet 1x NC, no competition

I didn't bring up many 1 time NC because their weight class had 3x winners. Hard to believe Quinton and Ed Ruth didn't make the line up.

Just wait a couple years until we're picking between 3x Jason Nolf and 3x Levi Haines with one of them being left out entirely. I have a feeling Lilledahl is going straight to the top of the all-time 125, too.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Slow time, sorry if this has done before. I'm sure it has.
Cael's All Time Line up Team.

125 Nico 1x NC is a no brainer, no other won NC
133 RBY 2x NC another easy choice.
141 Nick Lee 2x NC, but Zain has wrestled the weight
149 Zain Retherford, 3x NC no competition. I think Frank Molinaro did win at this weight but 1x NC.
157 Jason Nolf, 3x NC, edges David Taylor 2x
165 David Taylor 2x, edges out Vincenzo Joseph 2x
174 Carter Starocci 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x and Bo Nickal 3x
184 Aaron Brooks 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x, Quinton Wright 2x and Bo Nickal 3x
197 Bo Nickal 3x NC, edges Quinton Wright 2x
285 Greg Kerkvliet 1x NC, no competition

I didn't bring up many 1 time NC because their weight class had 3x winners. Hard to believe Quinton and Ed Ruth didn't make the line up.

Can’t really disagree even though I’m a huge Ruth fan.

That lineup has a chance to top 150 points and put pressure on Iowa

 

[Reslo]

Can’t really disagree even though I’m a huge Ruth fan.

That lineup has a chance to top 150 points and put pressure on Iowa

Ed Ruth is the most underrated wrestler in PSU history. He was 136-3 with 46 falls and there's a chance he doesn't crack the all-time lineup. Insane how spoiled we've been for the past decade.

 

[Random4598375]

Can’t really disagree even though I’m a huge Ruth fan.

That lineup has a chance to top 150 points and put pressure on Iowa

Yeah, it's pretty stunning that a guy like Ruth is just a room guy on this team, but the only way to fit him in the lineup would be to bump Brooks to 197 and leave out Bo Nickal instead, which is just as egregious as leaving Ruth off. I guess you could try to argue for Ruth over Starocci based on bonus rate or something, but when Starocci adds a 5th, that argument will be out the window.

 

[FatWoodchuck]

The number of titles they have is going to have to go out the window as we now know these high schoolers are college ready out of the gate. Also we are going to have to look at the completion they had, Taylor and Zain lost to all time great 4 timers, Nolf-unbeatable I-Mar, Bo to a very tuff Martin.

IMO it is going to have to be decided on bonus, competition, and other factors. Championships alone just don't cut it for me as an all time Stat.

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

Greg does have competition at 285…. I recall a guy

 

[a_mshaffer]

Can’t really disagree even though I’m a huge Ruth fan.

That lineup has a chance to top 150 points and put pressure on Iowa

yep, injuries can knock you out!

 

[WeARE]

Greg does have competition at 285…. I recall a guy

Ant the Champ

 

[kingslayer_85]

Ant the Champ

No , has to be Kerry McCoy. Need to strike that . Didn’t read the requirements carefully

 

[Pennstate1985]

Ant the Champ

I love Cassar but he was a one hit wonder. A legit champ mind you, but because of injuries, it all came together for just one year.

 

[Pennstate1985]

Starocci versus Ruth would be a low scoring great defensive battle. Stylistically similar and I bet they each win 5 out of 10 matchups.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Not considering 4 time finalist, 2 time champ and Olympic gold medalist Jake Varner at 197 on an all-time Cael team seems a little wrong. I get Bo is Bo, but that gold medal.

 

[McScoreley]

I'd flip Bo and AB. AB looked better than every at 197, Bo's iconic moment happened at 184.

So many options at 174 that you can't go wrong with. Matt Brown is 4th string there ....

 

[horraybeer]

On an all-time list 174 I'll take Starr. On an individual match I'll take Bo N., and take Ed R. to beat both.

 

[El-Jefe]

So many options at 174 that you can't go wrong with. Matt Brown is 4th string there ....

5th behind Mark Hall.

 

[McScoreley]

5th behind Mark Hall.

Trying not to double dip with wrestlers and their weights but also Matt does have a higher 174 finish than Bo so ...

 

[horraybeer]

5th behind Mark Hall.

That would be one hell of a match... I'll take Marky.

 

[Pennstate1985]

That would be one hell of a match... I'll take Marky.

Man these would be tough matchups to wager on. Brown had very heavy hands and was a great top guy. Does that negate Marky's quickness?

 

[kingslayer_85]

Starocci versus Ruth would be a low scoring great defensive battle. Stylistically similar and I bet they each win 5 out of 10 matchups.

Interesting, I always viewed them as having very different styles

 

[Pennstate1985]

Interesting, I always viewed them as having very different styles

I did too until Carter got injured. Then I realized he was a defensive juggernault. He shut down the very best in the land in the quarter, semi, and final by the scores of 4-0, 2-0, and 2-0. That is amazing defense. I honestly didn't think he had that in him, and probably most of you didn't either. That's damned impressive especially when you consider two of those victories were against NCAA champs.

I would expect a defensive battle against Ruth because Ruth is even better than Lewis or Griffith, and in these cases, it ends up coming down to a last chance TD.

As for Ruth, he was a technician who was so superior technically that he was almost unbeatable in his final couple seasons.

 

[zzs006]

Just wait a couple years until we're picking between 3x Jason Nolf and 3x Levi Haines with one of them being left out entirely. I have a feeling Lilledahl is going straight to the top of the all-time 125, too.

And then add in 3X champ 4X finalist Mesenbrink. So much talent especially in the middleweights.

 

[Pennstate1985]

And then add in 3X champ 4X finalist Mesenbrink. So much talent especially in the middleweights.

We need to cut MM loose before he makes these lists too difficult.

 

[Phantom of the Palestra]

Using your starters, the back ups would look like
125 Suriano
133 Conaway (yes Long was better but fu<K him)
141 Bartlett
149 Molinaro
157 Haines
165 Joseph
174 Hall
184 Ruth
197 Wright
HVY Cassar

 

[District four]

Starocci versus Ruth would be a low scoring great defensive battle. Stylistically similar and I bet they each win 5 out of 10 matchups.

Ruth's length would give star troubles in my opinion. Ruth is by far the most underrated wrestler at PSU. He was a beast and could cradle anyone from anywhere

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Slap me hard, but I am not so sure Suriano shouldn't be named to the starting team. At least worthy of debate unless we are limited to accolades earned in the blue and white only.

PS - for nearly 2 years I referred to little Nicky as " he who should not be named".

 

[El-Jefe]

Slap me hard, but I am not so sure Suriano shouldn't be named to the starting team. At least worthy of debate unless we are limited to accolades earned in the blue and white only.

PS - for nearly 2 years I referred to little Nicky as " he who should not be named".

His Rutgers and Michigan titles matter for a Cael All-Time Team?

 

[Ja1339]

Slap me hard, but I am not so sure Suriano shouldn't be named to the starting team. At least worthy of debate unless we are limited to accolades earned in the blue and white only.

PS - for nearly 2 years I referred to little Nicky as " he who should not be named".

 

[Ian]

Slow time, sorry if this has done before. I'm sure it has.
Cael's All Time Line up Team.

125 Nico 1x NC is a no brainer, no other won NC
133 RBY 2x NC another easy choice.
141 Nick Lee 2x NC, but Zain has wrestled the weight
149 Zain Retherford, 3x NC no competition. I think Frank Molinaro did win at this weight but 1x NC.
157 Jason Nolf, 3x NC, edges David Taylor 2x
165 David Taylor 2x, edges out Vincenzo Joseph 2x
174 Carter Starocci 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x and Bo Nickal 3x
184 Aaron Brooks 4x NC, edges Ed Ruth 3x, Quinton Wright 2x and Bo Nickal 3x
197 Bo Nickal 3x NC, edges Quinton Wright 2x
285 Greg Kerkvliet 1x NC, no competition

I didn't bring up many 1 time NC because their weight class had 3x winners. Hard to believe Quinton and Ed Ruth didn't make the line up.

Too many good guys left out. Definitely need two guys at each weight.

 

[SWPA]

I would swap Bo and Aaron too. Also, give me Ruth at 174 over Carter. Any Cael all-time team without Ed Ruth isn't really an all-time team.

 

[PSUcup1]

I would swap Bo and Aaron too. Also, give me Ruth at 174 over Carter. Any Cael all-time team without Ed Ruth isn't really an all-time team.

Agreed. In a match, my money would be on Ruth to beat Carter

 

[bwfight]

Agreed. In a match, my money would be on Ruth to beat Carter

If a promoter could sssemble a couple of the best from each weight for a WNO pay-per-view event at Bryce Jordon I think it could sell out.

 

[Ja1339]

If a promoter could sssemble a couple of the best from each weight for a WNO pay-per-view event at Bryce Jordon I think it could sell out.

Heck we could fill the Beav for that event.

 

[AgSurfer]

One problem with this kind of discussion is a phenomenon known as recency bias. (See: Recency Bias) Ed wrestled his last match in a PSU uniform ten years ago whereas a lot of the other guys named here were much more recent.

YouTube has some great videos showing highlights of Ed's matches. He was so good that he totally dominated most of his competition. Also, don't forget that Ed was a bonus point machine when it came to the big tournaments. It was noted on more than one occasion that he and Taylor scored enough bonus points to add another placing wrestler to the Penn State score. (Now that Ruth and Taylor have graduated, Penn State's team scoring has reverted closer to the norm. )

 

[Random4598375]

Slap me hard, but I am not so sure Suriano shouldn't be named to the starting team. At least worthy of debate unless we are limited to accolades earned in the blue and white only.

PS - for nearly 2 years I referred to little Nicky as " he who should not be named".

I mean, Suriano was consistently beating Nico in the room, right? LOL.

 

[David Keller]

Agreed. In a match, my money would be on Ruth to beat Carter

would be great to program in AI and watch at their best years

 

[Nitlion1986]

(Now that Ruth and Taylor have graduated, Penn State's team scoring has reverted closer to the norm. )

I get what your trying to say, but 172.5 makes it appear to be a weird point.

Plus Zain, Jason and Bo were about as prolific at bonus as Taylor/Ruth

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I would swap Bo and Aaron too. Also, give me Ruth at 174 over Carter. Any Cael all-time team without Ed Ruth isn't really an all-time team.

Yep. Don't forget career and or single season bonus % when debating nominees.