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Carlos Beltran retires. Think he's HOF material?

LafayetteBear

LafayetteBear

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He got his World Series ring with the Astros, and is now bowing out. My initial reaction was that he is not HOF material, but after looking at his stats, I have reconsidered. I think he probably deserves to get in.

I posted a link below concerning his retirement but, for those of you who want the statistical bottom line, here are his salient career numbers:

9 All Star appearances
435 HR's
2,725 Hits
1,587 RBI
.279 BA

http://my.xfinity.com/video/report-...strated?cid=featuredsports_sf_UCLA&tab=sports

The batting average is a tad low, but the homers, hits and runs batted in numbers are all very good. I think his most compelling statistic is the nine All Star appearances.

What do you think?
 
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He's the same as Gary Sheffield to me... Never the best in his era, but almost has the numbers
 
Borderline but he also gets points for being one of the great switch hitters of all time. Beltran was a true pro. Hope he stays involved in the game.
 
Kind of like a Billy Williams or an Andre Dawson. Put him in but wait 2-3 years.
 
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According to one of the sports tickers, might be a candidate to manage the Yankees.
 
At first thought no I don't immediately think HOFer, but nice career numbers. The Hall of the Very Good sounds apt. I would have to see season statistics and how many times he was amongst the league leaders in various categories.
 
Will get reasonable amount of votes, but no. Well respected.

A wrinkle, Doc Halladay, yes or no for Hall?
 
LafayetteBear said:
No to Doc.
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His untimely death adds an interesting wrinkle.

He was immensely popular and respected as well.

I know one vote personally who holds the criteria as to whether the player was dominant for a period of years. That is why Puckett was a no brainer first time ballot for him. Hard to argue Doc was not the do,inant pitcher for a number of years.

His vote will be interesting.
 
Doc was the best pitcher in baseball for a decade

If Sandy Koufax is in, so should Doc

Koufax averaged 16 wins a season
Doc averaged 17 wins a season

They both had a 131 career ERA+
 
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I'd take Dave Parker over Beltran every time. Beltran's numbers are inflated from the steroid and small park era. Parker's numbers are similar even tho his career was stunted due to playing on terrible astroturf that destroyed his knees.
 
mrtailgate said:
His untimely death adds an interesting wrinkle.

He was immensely popular and respected as well.

I know one vote personally who holds the criteria as to whether the player was dominant for a period of years. That is why Puckett was a no brainer first time ballot for him. Hard to argue Doc was not the do,inant pitcher for a number of years.

His vote will be interesting.
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You’re wrinkled tonight, tailgunner:).
 
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PSUcup1 said:
Doc was the best pitcher in baseball for a decade

If Sandy Koufax is in, so should Doc

Koufax averaged 16 wins a season
Doc averaged 17 wins a season

They both had a 131 career ERA+
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Dude: I don't understand what you meant by the last sentence of your post, but Doc Halliday, as good as he was and as great a person and teammate as he was, was nowhere near as good as Sandy Koufax.

Here are some salient statistics, taken from www.baseball-almanac.com:

Halliday: Played 16 seasons, Won 203 games, 2,117 K's, 3.38 ERA. No WS rings.

Koufax: Played 12 seasons, Won 165 games, 2,396 K's, 2.76 ERA, 4 WS rings

Koufax averaged 13.75 wins per season, and Halladay averaged 12.67 wins per season. Your numbers, above, are incorrect.

Koufax won the Cy Young Award in 1963, 1965, and 1966, at a time when there was only one Cy Young winner for all of MLB, not one per league. Roy Halladay won the Cy Young Award in 2003 (AL) and 2010 (NL). Koufax won the Triple Crown of pitching in 1963. 1965, and 1966, when he led the NL in wins, strikeouts and ERA. He also won the World Series MVP in 1963 and 1965., and was the NL MVP in 1963. Koufax, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, and Pedro Martinez are the only four pitchers elected to the Hall of Fame who had more strikeouts than innings pitched. Koufax has the second lowest career ERA in the live ball era, second only to Whitey Ford 2.76 to 2.75. His winning percentage (.665) is the highest of all NL pitchers with at least 2,000 innings pitched.who have debuted since 1913.

Halladay does have two Cy's and eight All Star appearances so, upon reflection, he does deserve some HOF consideration. But Halladay does not rank with Sandy Koufax, and it is certainly no slam on him to say so..
 
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Did someone really say Halladay was as good as Koufax and then point to wins,the most overrated stat in judging a pitcher? Sandy I believed won like 80 games his last 3 years. He had very little support his first 4.

I just looked at Kofaux stats,he was a ERA machine. I think he won lowest ERA his last 5 years in baseball.

He also had an amazing FIP and averaged like 6 hits per 9 innings.

His last year was amazing.

He was probably one of the best 5 pitchers of all time IMO.
 
PennStateNate said:
Did someone really say Halladay was as good as Koufax and then point to wins,the most overrated stat in judging a pitcher? Sandy I believed won like 80 games his last 3 years. He had very little support his first 4.

I just looked at Kofaux stats,he was a ERA machine. I think he won lowest ERA his last 5 years in baseball.

He also had an amazing FIP and averaged like 6 hits per 9 innings.

His last year was amazing.

He was probably one of the best 5 pitchers of all time IMO.
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LafayetteBear said:
Dude: I don't understand what you meant by the last sentence of your post, but Doc Halliday, as good as he was and as great a person and teammate as he was nowhere near as good as Sandy Koufax.

Here are some salient statistics, taken from www.baseball-almanac.com:

Halliday: Played 16 seasons, Won 203 games, 2,117 K's, 3.38 ERA. No WS rings.

Koufax: Played 12 seasons, Won 165 games, 2,396 K's, 2.76 ERA, 4 WS rings

Koufax averaged 13.75 wins per season, and Halladay averaged 12.67 wins per season. Your numbers, above, are incorrect.

Koufax won the Cy Young Award in 1963, 1965, and 1966, at a time when there was only one Cy Young winner for all of MLB, not one per league. Roy Halladay won the Cy Young Award in 2003 (AL) and 2010 (NL). Koufax won the Triple Crown of pitching in 1963. 1965, and 1966, when he led the NL in wins, strikeouts and ERA. He also won the World Series MVP in 1963 and 1965., and was the NL MVP in 1963. Koufax, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, and Pedro Martinez are the only four pitchers elected to the Hall of Fame who had more strikeouts than innings pitched. Koufax has the second lowest career ERA in the live ball era, second only to Whitey Ford 2.76 to 2.75. His winning percentage (.665) is the highest of all NL pitchers with at least 2,000 innings pitched.who have debuted since 1913.

Halladay does have two Cy's and eight All Star appearances so, upon reflection, he does deserve some HOF consideration. But Halladay does not rank with Sandy Koufax, and it is certainly no slam on him to say so..
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Point being their careers are quite comparable

I used wins over 162 game season, which was 17-16 for Halladay

203 wins vs 165 in favor of Halladay

Halladay has a win % of .659 and While Koufax is .655 ( not .665)

Halladay had 8 seasons in the top 4 of WAR for pitchers . With 4 seasons as the leaders in WAR for pitchers. Koufax had 5 seasons in top 4 with 2 as the leaders.

Doc lead the league in complete games 8 times. Sandy twice ( can't compare totals as the eras are totally different )

Don't care about ERA as much as ERA+ which is exactly the same (131) for their careers. Doc was in top 5 for 7 season. Koufax for 6 seasons

And yes Koufax had the better FIP, but Docs was still very good especially for a guy who was basically sinker ball pitcher

Fact is, both had a rough stretch in their early career and while Koufax had a more dominant 5 year stretch (arguably best of all time),Doc had a longer period of time being the best in the game
 
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Doc was not sandy but is a sure fire hall of famer

Beltran maybe. I think his post season stats which were tremendous may help.
 
PSUcup1 said:
Point being their careers are quite comparable

I used wins over 162 game season, which was 17-16 for Halladay

203 wins vs 165 for Halladay

Halladay has a win % of .659 and While Koufax is .655 ( not .665)
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Good post. As for average wins per season, I just divided each guy's career wins by the total number of seasons he played. 16 seasons for Halladay and 12 for Koufax.

As for winning percentage, the statement I had in my earlier post (indicating that Koufax had the highest winning percentage of any pitcher who debuted after 1913 and had 2,000-plus innings) was taken from his Wikipedia bio. I did get the number wrong. It was .655, not .665. And you are correct in noting that Halladay had a .659 winning percentage, so it appears that Koufax's Wiki bio needs to be corrected, and that Halladay perhaps has the No. 1 winning percentage. I think that is significant for his HOF candidacy.
 
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