Cenzo and 165 predictions

[dmm53]

Despite wild rumors that V. Joseph now weighs 2,300 pounds; that he will not be able to certify at 165 this year (barring gastric plication aka stomach sewing or surgical amputation of multiple limbs); and that he needs to be moved around campus with a heavy duty crane while he gnashes on Skittles, Ben and Jerry's ice cream, and cotton candy, here are are FLO's (specifically Andrew Spey's) predictions for the weight (below)

Will Cenzo make weight? Whom will he take on an inside-trip this year? Can the finals be all an PA affair between V.J. and bad-boy-turned-solid-citizen Chance Marsteller? Will newcomer Mekhi Lewis present a problem? And what of Evan Wick's long limbs and crazy cradling? Does another Joseph, namely Joseph Smith (founder of Mormonism but reincarnated as OK State son of wrestling god, John Smith) fall all the way to Round of 12? Stay tuned, same Bat (or Big Ten) Channel for answers as the Wrestling Season Turns.

1st: Vincenzo Joseph, Penn State

2nd: Chance Marsteller, Lock Haven

3rd: Mekhi Lewis, Virginia Tech

4th: Evan Wick, Wisconsin

5th: Alex Marinelli, Iowa

6th: Logan Massa, Michigan

7th: Bryce Steiert, Northern Iowa

8th: Isaiah White, Nebraska

R12: Joseph Smith, Oklahoma State

R12: Jonathan Chavez, Cornell

R12: Branson Ashworth, Wyoming

R12: Connor Flynn, Missouri

 

[dmm53]

Some key dates for 165 this season:

• November 16 - Wisconsin at Nebraska (Wick vs White)
• January 12 - Northern Iowa vs Nebraska (Steiert vs White)
• January 13 - Wisconsin at Penn State (Wick vs Cenzo)
• February 1 - Michigan at Penn State (Massa vs Cenzo - in the Bryce Jordan Center)
• February 2 - Lock Haven at Cornell (Marsteller vs Chavez)
• February 17 - Iowa at Wisconsin (Marinelli vs Wick)
• February 24 - Iowa at Oklahoma State (Marinelli vs Smith)

 

[dmm53]

FLO's 165 rankings:
Rank Grade Name School Previous Rank

1 JR Vincenzo Joseph Penn State 1
2 SO Evan Wick Wisconsin 3
3 SR Chance Marsteller Lock Haven 4
4 SO Alex Marinelli Iowa 6
5 JR Logan Massa Michigan 9
6 JR Joe Smith OK State NR
7 JR Bryce Steiert UNI NR
8 SR Jonathon Chavez Cornell 7
9 JR Isaiah White Nebraska 10
10 SR Branson Ashworth Wyoming 14
11 JR Anthony Valencia Arizona State 16
12 JR Andrew Fogarty ND State 17
13 JR Connor Flynn Missouri NR
14 JR Cole Walter Lehigh NR
15 FR Mekhi Lewis Virginia Tech NR
16 JR Demetrius Romero Utah Valley 18
17 JR Zac Carson Ohio NR
18 SR Quentin Perez Campbell NR
19 SO Jake Wentzel Pittsburgh NR
20 SR Jonathan Viruet Brown 20

 

[diggerpup]

I wouldn’t sleep on Massa. I think they have him too low.

He never seemed 100% last year - if he’s 100% this year, he’s a possible finalist.

 

[Afw6006]

White is my prediction for dark horse to make a leap this year

 

[NoVa Lion]

I wouldn’t sleep on Massa. I think they have him too low.

He never seemed 100% last year - if he’s 100% this year, he’s a possible finalist.

I agree on Massa. If he returns to his form as a frosh I expect him to be Cenzo's toughest opponent. He definitely did not look 100% every time I saw him last season.

 

[Dar.of.Emur]

My outsiders opinion....for what its worth.
Vincenzo is now impossible to score upon. His hips are too heavy and legs are too strong to score on him with traditional leg attacks. To beat him, you will have to do what Marinelli did - and win a 50:50 position.
He does not have a dynamic offense, so he will never be the bonus point scorer that his other teammate are. But, it doesnt matter. He will continue to collect titles.
I'd love to see him vs Marsteller in the NCAA finals - power vs power. But, as above, I dont see Chance being able to score on Vincenzo. Would still love to see that matchup tho.
I agree with an above posted, that Isaiah White "could" beat him.. but it would have to be a 3-2 win with White getting the only TD (which I dont see happening).

 

[nerfstate]

My outsiders opinion....for what its worth.
Vincenzo is now impossible to score upon. His hips are too heavy and legs are too strong to score on him with traditional leg attacks. To beat him, you will have to do what Marinelli did - and win a 50:50 position.
He does not have a dynamic offense, so he will never be the bonus point scorer that his other teammate are. But, it doesnt matter. He will continue to collect titles.
I'd love to see him vs Marsteller in the NCAA finals - power vs power. But, as above, I dont see Chance being able to score on Vincenzo. Would still love to see that matchup tho.
I agree with an above posted, that Isaiah White "could" beat him.. but it would have to be a 3-2 win with White getting the only TD (which I dont see happening).

I agree with you except for the dynamic offense bit. VJ has a great arsenal. No, not Nolf great, but that’s hardly a fair standard. VJ has a nice single, a slide by good enough to get iMar twice, an explosive double. Can hit a standing cradle, nice cross wrist and cheap tilts. and yeah, a decent inside trip and superhuman hips to boot.

 

[Cowbell Man]

I agree with you except for the dynamic offense bit. VJ has a great arsenal. No, not Nolf great, but that’s hardly a fair standard. VJ has a nice single, a slide by good enough to get iMar twice, an explosive double. Can hit a standing cradle, nice cross wrist and cheap tilts. and yeah, a decent inside trip and superhuman hips to boot.

Superhuman hips. Pretty much the weight of Thor’s hammer.

 

[El-Jefe]

When fools shoot on those concrete hips:

 

[Ban Basketball]

I'd also put Steiert's hips up against anyone. He rarely gets taken down straight on.

 

[Divided42]

I wouldn’t sleep on Massa. I think they have him too low.

He never seemed 100% last year - if he’s 100% this year, he’s a possible finalist.

Definitely wasn’t even close to 100 percent from Cliff Keen on. Had major surgery right after the season.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

My outsiders opinion....for what its worth.
Vincenzo is now impossible to score upon. His hips are too heavy and legs are too strong to score on him with traditional leg attacks. To beat him, you will have to do what Marinelli did - and win a 50:50 position.
He does not have a dynamic offense, so he will never be the bonus point scorer that his other teammate are. But, it doesnt matter. He will continue to collect titles.
I'd love to see him vs Marsteller in the NCAA finals - power vs power. But, as above, I dont see Chance being able to score on Vincenzo. Would still love to see that matchup tho.
I agree with an above posted, that Isaiah White "could" beat him.. but it would have to be a 3-2 win with White getting the only TD (which I dont see happening).

Great analysis overall but "never say never" regarding dynamic offense.

 

[nitlion6]

To the thought Isiah White might beat Cenzo, of course anything is possible, but the need to actually wrestle to win makes a White victory over Cenzo highly improbable. As soon as White got tired from racing backwards and Cenzo could lay hands upon him White was taken down easily. If White ever presents himself to Cenzo in a competitive manner the score would be whatever Cenzo wanted it to be.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Great analysis overall but "never say never" regarding dynamic offense.

I'm a neutral observer with PSU (and Illinois, as well), but I'm well known for calling Martinez overhyped, so, to me, this was one of my favorite moments from NCAA's that season!

 

[Cali_Nittany]

I'm a neutral observer with PSU (and Illinois, as well), but I'm well known for calling Martinez overhyped, so, to me, this was one of my favorite moments from NCAA's that season!

I would say IMar is underhyped. Two titles his first two years. The only wrestler who beat The Matrix (twice). A 4 time champ if not for Cenzo. But yes, I do agree with your favorite moment .

 

[Ban Basketball]

I would say IMar is underhyped. Two titles his first two years. The only wrestler who beat The Matrix (twice). A 4 time champ if not for Cenzo. But yes, I do agree with your favorite moment .

Maybe a better word for him was "vulnerable." I always saw him as someone VERY beatable, and that's how I felt in his last two NCAA's.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Cenzo’s two potential downfalls:

1) a talented freshman who “IMars” him. I don’t see anyone who can do it, but historically 165 has produced studs. I guess what I am saying is The weight lends itself to newcomers more so than 125 or HWT. Odds of this? Low.

2) the weight gets too hard to make and affects his wrestling. I have no idea about what he walks around at, how hard this weight is for him, etc.

What’s weird is he would be considered the 4th best on his team of this “era” even as a 4xer. (Zain Nolf Nickal VJ)

 

[RoarLions1]

Maybe a better word for him was "vulnerable." I always saw him as someone VERY beatable, and that's how I felt in his last two NCAA's.

Just curious...first you say "overhyped", then back off to say "VERY beatable", even emphasizing VERY, in caps.

Dude lost 3 times in college, to only two different wrestlers, was a 4-time finalist, with something like a 114-3 record and about a 70% bonus point rate. Even has a winning overall record against the two guys that beat him. If he was VERY beatable, he would have lost more.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Just curious...first you say "overhyped", then back off to say "VERY beatable", even emphasizing VERY, in caps.

Dude lost 3 times in college, to only two different wrestlers, was a 4-time finalist, with something like a 114-3 record and about a 70% bonus point rate. Even has a winning overall record against the two guys that beat him. If he was VERY beatable, he would have lost more.

It shouldn't make you angry, and it wasn't designed to do that, so, my apologies.

I'm still comfortable with calling him overhyped myself, but, yes, vulnerable/beatable are probably more accurate words for my subjective sense of it.

I say "subjective," as I have no way to "prove" my thoughts or demonstrate them, but I have just always felt that Martinez was more beatable than most felt.

I'll stop talking about it beyond this, but, again, no offense to anyone was intended.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

It shouldn't make you angry, and it wasn't designed to do that, so, my apologies.

I'm still comfortable with calling him overhyped myself, but, yes, vulnerable/beatable are probably more accurate words for my subjective sense of it.

I say "subjective," as I have no way to "prove" my thoughts or demonstrate them, but I have just always felt that Martinez was more beatable than most felt.

I'll stop talking about it beyond this, but, again, no offense to anyone was intended.

Roar isn't angry. I don't know if that's even possible.

 

[El-Jefe]

Two years from now, we may be saying Martinez was a 2x champ/4x finalist whose worst career loss was to a 3x champ/4x finalist.

Overhyped and beatable are not the first two adjectives that come to mind.

 

[Ban Basketball]

Roar isn't angry. I don't know if that's even possible.

Could have fooled me. If not, he certainly seemed either offended or agitated by my different my description of my subjective thoughts.

Over and out...

 

[Ban Basketball]

beatable.

Clearly, he was. He was beaten a few times in his career.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Could have fooled me. If not, he certainly seemed either offended or agitated by my different my description of my subjective thoughts.

Over and out...

It's all good. Dont read into things so much.

 

[a_mshaffer]

IMAR is/was a stud. How he ripped the field his freshman year was unbelievable (and likeable!!) However, as with anyone, there is a chance of losing. Cenzo wrestling Massa 10 times would probably not be 10 wins. That is what makes the tourney so special... no best of 3, 5, 7 or more...

 

[ClarkstonMark]

Clearly, he was. He was beaten a few times in his career.

The only thing that is clear is that for some reason B BB doesn't like Imar.

 

[Ban Basketball]

The only thing that is clear is that for some reason B BB doesn't like Imar.

Or, was I just not sold on the idea that he was unbeatable?

I'm an honest man, and I'll tell you when I don't like someone and he doesn't qualify.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

IMAR is/was a stud. How he ripped the field his freshman year was unbelievable (and likeable!!) However, as with anyone, there is a chance of losing. Cenzo wrestling Massa 10 times would probably not be 10 wins. That is what makes the tourney so special... no best of 3, 5, 7 or more...

you’ve given Tom Ryan an agenda item for the next NWCA meeting held while key coaches are out of the country

 

[El-Jefe]

you’ve given Tom Ryan an agenda item for the next NWCA meeting held while key coaches are out of the country

He doesn't want that -- not enough lunger challenges to get out of Day 1.

 

[diggerpup]

Speaking of IMar .... this 2015 B1G Finals vs Dylan Ness was entertaining + eye opening.

Bodies were FLYING!!!
(Counted at least 3 elevator attempts + lateral drop by D Ness)

IMar just brute forced him though. Wow.

https://www.flowrestling.org/video/5509672-157-f-isaiah-martinez-illinois-vs-dylan-ness-minnesotamov

 

[nitlion6]

Or, was I just not sold on the idea that he was unbeatable?

I'm an honest man, and I'll tell you when I don't like someone and he doesn't qualify.

Everybody, even Cael has suffered defeat. So nobody is unbeatable.

A two time champ, 4 time finalist who has lost only 3 times combined to two kids who are both 2 time champions is much closer to unbeatable than 99.99% of every other wrestler out there.

 

[dmm53]

Looks like Lock Haven is going to the Scuffle. We may get to see Cenzo vs. Chance for New Years. Get your party hats and countdown clocks ready:

https://www.golhu.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=150

 

[Sportfan2017]

Or, was I just not sold on the idea that he was unbeatable?

I'm an honest man, and I'll tell you when I don't like someone and he doesn't qualify.

Name someone who is unbeatable?

 

[Ban Basketball]

Name someone who is unbeatable?

No one. That's been my point.

 

[Sportfan2017]

No one. That's been my point.

I think using phrases like "Overhyped" and "VERY Beatable" are far different & much more specific and more demeaning than saying "No one is unbeatable" Your phrases and "No one is unbeatable" are not in the same ballpark...…..perhaps not even in the same state.

 

[RoarLions1]

It shouldn't make you angry, and it wasn't designed to do that, so, my apologies.

I'm still comfortable with calling him overhyped myself, but, yes, vulnerable/beatable are probably more accurate words for my subjective sense of it.

I say "subjective," as I have no way to "prove" my thoughts or demonstrate them, but I have just always felt that Martinez was more beatable than most felt.

I'll stop talking about it beyond this, but, again, no offense to anyone was intended.

Angry? You don't know me very well. The day you make me angry will be a cold one. Just presenting facts, while you change the narrative, which seems to be your MO.

It's ok really, it's a message board, with dozen's of differing thoughts...some are just outrageous, that's all.

 

[James P. Whitters III]

I think Ban is probably viewing this from a mid western perspective ( sorry Mr. Hall). Imar was thought of around here as much more invincible than Zain or Bo or probably even Snyder. I think this stems from the mass of hawk fans that way over rate Mark Perry as a coach. It is hard to actually be over rated when you are as good as Imar, but over hyped might be a better description of the situation. I was mocked for suggesting that Nolf was a threat to Imar early in Jason's freshman year, and mocked even more vigorously when I suggested the the Cenzo victory was less fluke and more design the following year. Ban suffers from being stuck way to close to the blinded bubble that is hawkeye wrestling group think. All this said I believe Imar is one of our all time greats and a solid ambassador for the sport. One can only dream of reaching the level of achievement he obtained.

 

[y2jriden]

I'm an honest man, and I'll tell you when I don't like someone and he doesn't qualify.

Wasn't Spyker an honest man?

 

[86PSUPaul]

I seem to remember you stating you were done posting hear, a few months ago, but here you are.

Hey,. many of us asked him to come back and post since we enjoyed his interaction. He did take a week or so off and then came back. I am happy he did.