I hope you are right but concerned this could be a lingering distraction. Franklin needs to control it.
CFB players demand revenue sharing from B1G
- Thread starter heckmans
- Start date
2nd tier players acting like professionals is absolutely "the minors."
Politely, but vehemently disagree. People used to care about the Olympics. The dedication and struggle of amateurs had great appeal. Now the Olympics are filled with professionals and no one gives a rat's a** about watching the same pros they can see on TV every week, play in the Olympics with non-professionals mixed in. USA Basketball used to be big. Now, no one has cared since about 1992. Every sport that has professionals has integrated them and it has ruined interest in the entire spectacle.
Even if addicts like you continue to be interested, a significant number of less addicted fans, will fall away and the money will start to wane and the entire Enterprise will topple. A 25% reduction in interest will devastate college football. I think the number will be greater than that.
“Rapidly approaching 50” means you are still in your 40s. The Grand Experiment was probably 30 years old or in that neighborhood when you started school. To me, you still haven’t started to shave yet.
Love Franklin, but Joe’s coaching record his LAST 8 years was better than Franklin’s has been over HIS 8 year Penn State career, percentage wise. Plus Joe had more Conference Championships over his LAST 8 years if you include shared Championships. Not bad for an old guy that you pretty much say was over the hill.
Back then, those were OUR GUYS!!! OUR FAMILY if you will for four or five years. We wanted to make sure they would get their degrees and have a useful life after football.
Now, these guys are just in it for the money. They don’t give a crap about Penn State. Under the new rules, they can transfer from school to school at will and never go to class.
Where are they going to be when that NIL money and revenue sharing runs out? Most likely on the street wishing they had a degree.
To your points.
Comparing JVP's performance to CJF over their respective last 8 years, CJF had the residual effects of the Sandusky matter, had to work with players that were recruited by a prior regime, two years of COVID, and a transfer portal to deal with. He also lost a number of key assistants to promotion to other programs most notable OC Joe Moorehead and DC Brent Pry amongst others. JVP had none of these challenges to deal with. I think CJF has done remarkably well considering no?
As for not going to class and not graduating, you couldn't be more wrong. Penn State student-athletes continue to register record-breaking graduation rates and perform well above their peers nationwide. PSU recorded a fifth consecutive record-tying or record-breaking academic performance with a 92% graduation success rate, according to the latest 2020 data reported by the NCAA.
Revenue sharing? Doesn't exist and will not happen for a lot of reasons. As for NIL, I suggest you visit the link to learn about the PSU Collectives and their chances for success which appear to be pretty good.
Collectives
More on the secret meetings of the "not a union" union at PSU
www.cbssports.com
College football players group presentation at Penn State included unionization option, document shows
The CFBPA believes long-term success for players' rights may need to include 'official unionization'
www.cbssports.com
I think the success of those slogans was very real and a lot more than "brief."
Still, in the end, Joe goes down as the most tragic figure in the history of American sports. An icon whose legend was earned...then brought down by all too familiar human frailties...and died soon thereafter in disgrace.
It's the story of a superstar who couldn't bring himself to walk away when the time came...far from the first guy in that boat. But nobody ever paid so high a price.
In the end, the media jackals saw the story as black...his legions of adoring fans as white. The reality is gray, which is where reality usually is.
Despite all that, I hang on to so many cherished memories of great seasons and big games won. Most of all, January 2, 1987...Giftopolous puts the MNC away on the last play of the game against heavily favored Miami, a team that stood against every value that Penn State represented.
I'll never forget that magical night.
The story of Joe brings to mind the great Streisand song:
Memories can be beautiful and yet
What's too painful to remember
We simply choose to forget
So it's the laughter
We will remember
Whenever we remember
The way we were...
So--who do you think the networks and University care more about--someone almost 50 or someone that thins a 50 year old hasn't started shaving yet? I'll give you a hint--it's not you
One thing is clear to me after reading through this. Crm114psu and LandoCommando think the turnover chain is really, really cool.
Counterpoint: Nobody is making the kids do anything, they are voluntarily deciding to play football in college.
Hmmm...not really true. That is like saying you can work for a living or you can not. If you are a football player, by trade, at age 18 (an adult), you really only have one place to go. The NFL/NFLPA lock you out from playing in the NFL until you are three years out of high school (IIRC). When you are talking about working for income, and bartering can quality as income, you then bring labor law into play.
That was really the needle the NCAA has been trying to thread with freebies and NIL. It is also why the NCAA has lost any control over the players. Labor laws are taking precedent over the NCAA's arbitrary rules.
Good or bad, don't shoot the messenger. These are really the changes brought about by the recent massive losses the NCAA has suffered in court.
No, I don't like the turnover chain but it's clearly works for them. I don't like any celebrations but I understand others do. The game isn't just for me.
Who is going to be the first person here to shill for a high school football players Association. How about pop warner players Association? I find it ironic that a quarterback who has shown terrible leadership on the field wants to lead a union. He is the reverse clone of Trace McSorley
The NFL should have a minor league for kids that don't want to go to college.
NCAA rules should requires kids who want to be college athletes to be real college students.
I see nothing wrong with schools offering scholarships that bind a player to a program. Pro athletes are bound by a contract. Why not college athletes?
When you "offer a scholarship" you are paying them. It would be like giving a car to the person that cuts your lawn or giving free rent to a renter for fixing your car. It is simply a different currency. College football has gotten around things by calling them amateurs for decades. The problem is that they are no longer amateurs by any definition. At the same time, schools are making $50m, $70m and soon to be $100m a year. CJF makes $6m while his start player makes $50k. In the NFL, players are making tens of millions per year while coaches make far less.
If you are a star player and the college made $289,000.000 your four years and you blew your knee out in the last bowl game, you'd certainly feel exploited. Fat cats spend tens of thousands flying in on their private jets to sit in a suite the expense of which they write off against taxes when hosting a client and you are getting up at 5am risking your health for room, board and tuition. I don't care who you are, that isn't fair and isn't going to stand.
the bottom line is that college football and the NCAA are history as it was once known. What to do?
Right now, college football players are free agents and can do whatever they want. NCAA is trying to have some restrictions but if anyone challenges them in court, the NCAA will lose. The only hope is to have some kind of player's group that is empowered to negotiate a collective bargaining agreement with the NCAA. Then, they will have a legal cabal like the NFL and NFLPA do. And if it isn't Sean Clifford, it will be somebody else. This is going to happen, it is just a matter of when, who and how much.
The problem is that all of this nonsense (transfer portal, NIL, opt outs) is turning off the fanbase, and eventually all this money is going to dry up
I have no pitty on student athletes. The NFL shoukd have a minor league for kids that don't want college.
When you and I were in college we paid to get trained for a career. It's the same with athletes except they get the training for free.
Kids go to D2 & D3 schools and play sports. Are they being abused?
Also, there us no professional sports league where players are perpetual free agents. Schools should be able to offer a contract (tuition, cash, whatever) and the student has the option to accept or decline.... but once accepted the athletes should be bound by the contract.
i disagree with this line:
When you and I were in college we paid to get trained for a career. It's the same with athletes except they get the training for free.
I didn't contribute to a $70m/year income for the university. I know my presence cost the college money and I was happy to pay my share. If I was putting my body on the line so that the university could charge more money and pay for woman's rowing, I'd have second thoughts. Lets face it, colleges exploited these players for years. Many graduated not know how to read (not PSU but we aren't talking PSU here). D2 and D3 schools don't make much money either.
By that logic high schools and smaller colleges exploit students too. You don't think they put their bodies on the line? Nobody is forcing these kids to play and nobody is denying them an education.
P.S. A lot of kids take crappy majors and graduate without a viable career path. It's not just athletes.
They don't make anywhere near $70m per year.
And those kids have choices. If you chosen profession is football, you'be got no place else to go between the ages of 18 and 21/22. That isn't legal.
The fact that there's no other place to go is an NFL problem. Their unwillingness to invest in this is not a good reason to force universities to pay for it with make believe students.
P.S. I don't agree with the notion that player are making $70 million for their schools. There's a lot that goes into that beyond the players. Start with $800 million stadiums (and that doesn't even include training facilities).
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it is actually not an "NFL problem". Recall Mo Clarett who sued them. The problem is that the players association agrees with the NFL. End result is that you can't enter the NFL until you are three years out of high school, at least.
Where that leaves a kid who is out of HS and not yet eligible via NFL and NFLPA guidelines is out of work unless he plays by NCAA rules.
The NCAA, then, sets arbitrary rules in cahoots with member schools. That can be viewed, and has been, as an illegal collaboration to stymie the choices of kids and have to play inside of an entire monopoly called college football. That is where the wheels have come off for the NCAA. The kids are winning in the courts and probably will continue to do so.
So where does that leave college football? As the NCAA makes and enforces rules, they will continue to be challenged in courts because they are made in a vacuum with no rights to the
What fan base? All fan bases or just our fan base?
How is the money going to dry up? Look at tv ratings in an era where most people don't even watch live TV
Why does anyone care if a kid wants to sit out a bowl game when we all know they're meaningless outside the playoffs?
Some people actually like the transfer portal for the same reason they follow recruiting
NIL is something a lot of people have wanted for a long time--I'm not one of them but I knew it was coming eventually
Your comments reflect a segment of fans not the majority
You have identified a solution. Sue the NFL because their mandate of not accepting high school grads is illegal. Then a kid has a choice. Go pro or go to college and be an amateur. I'm not excited about professional college sports. It probably would keep me from watching another game.. These people take us for granted . I say a pox and all the athletic administrators throughout college sports.
Make the revenue share pro-rated based on number of conference wins and winning the conference title - will save Franklin and PSU a lot of money that way…
that has been done, Mary....they lost. Because the NFL and PLAYERS (NFLPA) agree to a "collective bargaining agreement" it is NOT illegal.
Yes, NIL, transfer portal etc. will turn off a segment of fans. Is it 10%? 50%? I don't know. No one knows. But it will impact the college game and not in a good way.
How ironic. Only the NFL can save college football. It is not an amateur sport if it goes the way it's going.
Well, IMHO, it really hasn't been an amateur sport for several decades. The only ones that thought so grew up as college football fans during JVP's "Grand Experiment". Anyone who knows the SEC programs, tOSU, and several others (including Pitt many moons ago) always put air quotes around the term "amateur"
I don't understand this argument. "Programs run by bad people broke all the rules, so let's get rid of all these rules and have everyone do things the wrong way!"
Nobody made that argument. There has been a paradigm shift and the past really doesn't matter. College football is now much closer to a professional league than it is an amateur one.
These words you wrote here....they don't mean anything.
If by "paradigm shift", you mean that it has become fashionable for the sports media to white knight for the poor, oppressed black college athlete and paint them as victims, I'd say you are correct. Now, does anyone really have to pay attention to this nonsensical narrative? Of course not.
But that is what makes the media dangerous. Repeat a stupid nonsensical narrative enough, and people start to believe it.
College football players are not victims. Far, far from it. They have a GREAT deal. College education paid for. Room and board paid for. Training and medical care paid for. Coaching paid for. Everything they could need to prepare for pro football if they so choose. Everything they could need to prepare for a life outside of athletics if they so choose. If that is being a victim, sign me up.
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I feel like you are overthinking this.
there is long-standing legislation to make sure companies, monopolies and cabals don't take advantage of employees. there is a balance between giving the employee a voice and just having a sweat shop. The balance is that the employee has options to maintain the goodness of competition for both employee and employer.
For a long time, college football got a "pass" as being "amateurs" playing for the benefit of the university and education. Sadly, many/most universities took advantage and now rack up making $100s of millions of dollars while the kid is still only getting R/B/Tuition. They were locked down when the coach changed, schools cheated and other's benefitted (construction people making millions building dorms and apartments because 100,000 kids want to come to PSU so they can enjoy college football season lest they would simply go to some other school). This exploitation included the kid not even having rights to money made on his name, image and likeness in perpetuity, even after death.
The NCAA killed the golden goose.
Now the courts have ruled correcting this incredible lack of balance. Kids now have rights. In fact, probably too much. So the kids need to create an association that will allow them to represent college players and negotiate a collective bargaining agreement.
That is where we stand.
What percent of those fans that will stop watching are 60+?
That's not who is being target. Hell, I'm not being targeted. they're trying to get fans 25-40. They believe this will increase it. Some fans love the portal. Absolutely love it.
Uh yeah, you are the first person I've heard say changes like the portal and NIL are being done to increase fan interest but whatever. One thing is for sure they aren't happening because athletic directors care about the fans and want to increase interest. It's happening because the courts said they HAVE to make these changes, period.
How is the portal supposed to increase interest in programs like Pitt and Temple? Once this super conference gets established with a playoff the transfer portal will be a one way street. Any player showing enough to play at the higher level will jump for the opportunity of exposure and NIL money. NIL money at Pitt or Temple or a MAC school won't amount to a hill of beans.
Here is what I think will happen. The big boys, the Alabamas, Georgias, Texas A&Ms will be fine, at least in the foreseeable future. Penn State? We'll see how committed they are to NIL to remain competitive. Other schools outside this new super league forming between the SEC and Big Ten, and that is the great majority of programs, they are in trouble. There is a lot of interest in the top level of any sport, the NFL, NBA, but the minor leagues, not so much. Once these other programs are not part of this super conference/league they are clearly not at the top level of college football interest will decline and they will look more like Division II teams than Division I.
Beyond that there is another issue of what is this new conference? They sort of want to be a pro league but sort of not. Are they a horse or are they a cow? But I've written enough and maybe that can be discussed in a future post.
Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think or some poster named LandoCommando thinks. The horse or whatever it is is out of the barn and we'll just have to see where it goes.
Yet you think it matters what you think? The "big boys" are all that matters. Penn State hasn't been truly relevant since 1994 (even in 2005 they would have gotten demolished by Texas or USC) yet we keep watching and paying to go to the games. Pitt fans aren't hoping to win titles. They just want to win a few games. Kind of like how we have polls about if going to a mid-tier meaningless bowl game is a good season.
The portal is what it is. Transfers were always allowed and many players careers were derailed because they had to sit out a year if they transferred. There's no reason a player should have to sit out if they want to move on. And well I don't particular like the portal I understand it and people follow it the same way they follow recruiting. Ask Pitt fans with Addison.
They're a college sport that also comprehends the money involved. There's nothing pro like it. College players have always been paid--the same people saying they shouldn't be also think PAYING them with a scholarship, room and board, etc is paying them enough--it's still PAYING them. These kids bring huge money into the schools and should be able to cash in on it.
This board, not you in particular but as a whole, is pretending most people are just going to stop watching college football. The same was said about the NFL. Whether people like it or not it's still Penn State and we all have to adapt to what we've always known the game would eventually become. It's actually taken longer to get to this point than I think many expected.
Dude, read the first sentence of my last paragraph "Anyways, it doesn't matter what I think or some poster named LandoCommando thinks.". I don't know if it is worth bothering reading past your first sentence.
Fair enough my apologies for missing the "I think" part--my bad.
