Could not major an unranked opponent. Is he having difficulty adjusting to the new weight? The match with McKenna on Sunday will tell us a whole lot. How do people think he will fare?
Concern for Gulibon growing?
- Thread starter NittanyChris
- Start date
I think McKenna will beat him handily. Maybe not point wise but with control of pace, riding etc. Jimmy just seems off at the new weight but it's still early in the season. He has the ability to beat McKenna but I really don't think he will. McKenna has gotten considerably better and is wrestling with a ton of confidence coming off his World Team experience & training.
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With all due respect, it's hard to figure out what sport you're watching. Nickel is a tough D1 wrestler. He lad close losses last year against DiJullius (5-2 and 4-2) and Zane Riachards (8-4). He had wins over Troy Heilman and Eric Montoya. He's an NCAA qualifier. And Gulibon completely shut him down. What do you want from him?
I have slight concerns about a few things re: this team - one of which is Jimmy, but they remain slight (aside from Nevills' injury but we have the whole season to deal with it as fans and revise expectations there).
Those concerns are counterbalanced by the outright panic shown by some other fanbases about their team's prospects. We are in a good place.
Those concerns are counterbalanced by the outright panic shown by some other fanbases about their team's prospects. We are in a good place.
I agree Chickenman. The team has looked outstanding thus far and the freshman have even exceeded their hype. The concerns for Jimmy are only slight, but they are concerns nonetheless.
Jimmy should have stayed at 133....I think he wins a National Title at 133...The better taller guys will give him alot of trouble....
I agree with onceafish, not sure what sport you are watching. Jimmy looks the same to me this year as he did last year at 133. Ian Nickel is a quality D1 wrestler with length.
Jimmy, in college, is not Zain, probably not Nolf. He is a wrestler with proven AA ability, but not a dominating kid. At 133 or 141. He's plenty big enough.
McKenna will be a tough customer. I expect it to be a close match, but Jimmy laying an egg wouldn't surprise me. I've seen him do that against Sabatello, DiJullis, etc. at 133. Beating McKenna also wouldn't surprise me. That's who he is.
It's not HS anymore. There are plenty of 4 timers out there wresting in D1
Jimmy, in college, is not Zain, probably not Nolf. He is a wrestler with proven AA ability, but not a dominating kid. At 133 or 141. He's plenty big enough.
McKenna will be a tough customer. I expect it to be a close match, but Jimmy laying an egg wouldn't surprise me. I've seen him do that against Sabatello, DiJullis, etc. at 133. Beating McKenna also wouldn't surprise me. That's who he is.
It's not HS anymore. There are plenty of 4 timers out there wresting in D1
So, dice, we are essentially an agreement. Jimmy's preseason number 2 ranking was way out of whack. He's probably around a number 8 wrestler at 141. I suppose he has the misfortune of being on a team that's loaded with superstars, so he pales in comparison. So that is a little unfair in that sense.
Jimmy has always had a tougher time with these longer type wrestlers. He's not an overpowering type like Zain. He is gonna win some close ones with more physical wrestlers. I can remember Jimmy hanging on for dear life to beat a taller Randy Cruz for state title #3.
I don't think it was that crazy, if only because no one at 141 has shown to deserve it. I don't think there's anyone at that weight that Jimmy can't beat. 1-10 at 141 could all beat one another on any given day
Well, I think CSauer put it best. Jimmy could be ranked #1, could be ranked #10 - depends on the day and opponent. At 141 OR 133. Nobody - with the possible exception of Brewer at 133, and sometimes I have my doubts about him as well - has separated themselves from the pack at either weight.
Hopefully, he's wrestling at his best in March.
Hopefully, he's wrestling at his best in March.
If he beats McKenna today then your argument about there being a little difference between 1 and 10 holds some water.
If he loses, he will have lost twice in a week, which shows he could not reasonably be ranked #1, as you suggest.
If he loses, he will have lost twice in a week, which shows he could not reasonably be ranked #1, as you suggest.
No, he couldn't. I'm not suggesting that he is wrestling like the #1 wrestler in the country at this time. What I'm suggesting is that there ARE times when he is wrestling well, that he can beat anyone in the current rankings at 133 & 141 - POSSIBLE EXCEPTION, maybe McKenna IS the guy at 141, not sure on him since he is 2 weeks into his D1 college career. And I think that says a lot more about the weight classes, than it says about Jimmy.
I'm also suggesting that this is nothing different about this with Jimmy than there has been in the past two years. To me, the weight move is incidental. And it doesn't matter whether Jimmy is ranked #1, #5, #8 or #12 - to me he's the same wrestler. And that is not a bad thing in my eyes - he's an AA caliber wrestler.
This seems familiar to everyone being concerned about Cutch last year for some reason to me.
Honestly, being concerned about your All-American winning by 7 over an NQ on a cross country trip at a 7 PM (10 EST) match is...well I would just temper expectations is what I would say.
Rankings are just something to keep people talking and don't really matter (don't know how many times I've said that).
Jimmy will be fine.
Honestly, being concerned about your All-American winning by 7 over an NQ on a cross country trip at a 7 PM (10 EST) match is...well I would just temper expectations is what I would say.
Rankings are just something to keep people talking and don't really matter (don't know how many times I've said that).
Jimmy will be fine.
You're right. I also agree with Diceman. Jimmy is somewhat erratic. He could beat McKenna, but my money is on McKenna most days and....on Sunday!
Agree on "temper the expectations" although on the bright side, virtually every kid in the lineup now seems to be being judged on their ability to either get to the top of the podium or to climb higher on the podium. Certainly says a lot about where the program is.
The downside is that no matter what the goals are, never going to have 10 National Champions. So some kids are going to be seen as not meeting fans expectations - which is a shame. People around here just may be starting to take for granted what an accomplishment it is just to AA, be in the top 20, etc. But again - that just shows the success Cael has brought here.
Let's be clear about this "temper expectations" scolding. I'm not the one who ranked JG #2 preseason. That ranking implies some sky high expectations. All I'm saying is, thus far this season, JG has not shown he merited that ranking and there is some cause for concern. I not only think that is fair. I think it's quite obvious at this point.
Not scolding, just remembering that this situation happened last year. People were on Cutch and it escalated to the point of people looking for his replacement. This stuff builds...first it's concern, then people establish patterns, then jobs get called for. Unnecessarily (Talking about the board/landscape as a whole).
And I don't necessarily agree that he hasn't merited his ranked. He has one loss to a guy who, again because of rankings, people didn't take seriously enough. You look at who's at the weight - Kevin Jack is number 1. Henderson has lost to McKenna and Ashnault. Other than those two Jimmy probably has the best win of that group. And this is only three matches in. Mayes is gone to 49. Maybe he shouldn't be 2 overall, but he's in that top tier. That's what matters (to me at least).
He is a title contender at this weight. So I guess I'm just not concerned. You're entitled to your opinion and sorry you took mine that way (did not mean that at all).
And I don't necessarily agree that he hasn't merited his ranked. He has one loss to a guy who, again because of rankings, people didn't take seriously enough. You look at who's at the weight - Kevin Jack is number 1. Henderson has lost to McKenna and Ashnault. Other than those two Jimmy probably has the best win of that group. And this is only three matches in. Mayes is gone to 49. Maybe he shouldn't be 2 overall, but he's in that top tier. That's what matters (to me at least).
He is a title contender at this weight. So I guess I'm just not concerned. You're entitled to your opinion and sorry you took mine that way (did not mean that at all).
No, that's what you inferred. The person who did the rankings at the time that the entire 141 weight class is a toss-up, and this was a case of somebody had to be ranked #1.
Besides, the expectations don't matter until March. Until then, it's the process. My sky-high expectation is that Cael will manage the process.
Your "growing concern" over Jimmy because he missed a major decision by one point yesterday is because he might not live up to expectations that others placed on him with their pre-season rankings but you didn't share?
That clears it up.
Seriously? Wow, if that's what you got from this thread I can't help you any further. Have a good one.
What I take out of this thread is that you expect everyone to agree with your opinion and if they don't you consider it a scolding. Generally things go better if everyone is allowed to express their opinion without considering it a personal attack. My opinion on Jimmy is he is still inconsistent but based on how he finished last season I expect him to do the same this year.
So you're suggesting Onceafish's response was not condescending or sarcastic, but just his "expressing an opinion"?
Got it. I'll just leave it at, I disagree.
When one looks at a #1 ranking it clearly implies sky high expectations. There was no asterisk on the ranking.
In a standard situation, you would be correct. However, as pointed out by El-Jefe, this was not a standard situation. Flo ranked Jimmy #1 in their initial preseason ranking. Within a few days, Flo had changed Jimmy's preseason ranking to #2, when they got confirmation that Henderson would be wrestling 141. In addition, CP and Ben (pretty sure it was Ben) had a podcast for each preseason ranking, and they spent most of the time in the 141 podcast explaining that Jimmy had not started out on their list as #1, that they really thought the weight class was wide open, and that Jimmy was #1 (then #2) based on having more quality wins over highly ranked guys over his career, but still acknowledging that he had a number of poor loses. In the context in which Flo's preseason ranking was presented, there was no implication of sky high expectations; more a well, we have to give it to somebody, and this guy has more pluses on his record than any of the other guys, though the difference is pretty small.
This.
20 years ago a PSU fan would have be ecstatic with a wrestler who was an AA and had a chance to be a 3x AA. We hadn't had a lot of those! The times have changed for sure and it's great to be in a position where we are not happy unless someone is a legitimate NC contender.
Jimmy will be just fine and while its great to have high expectations, never forget how difficult it is to become even a 1x AA.
Whether Jimmy was ranked 1, 2 , 3 or 4...that still implies that he should be a dominant wrestler and we should have lofty expectations (Maybe sky high expectations should be definied?). Regardless, it certainly implies that he shouldn't have lost to Chishko, right?
No concerns at all here, not one. It's all about the process. Work hard, get better, eat & stay hydrated the right way, heck even keep up with your studies so there's no distraction. Cael, Casey, Cody, and Frank, Adam too, have Jimmy on the path to success in March.
Some good comments here (paraphrased); Jimmy won't blow any of the top wrestlers away, he sometimes has trouble with taller wrestlers, he even has inexplicable losses. But he's in a new weight class that's pretty wide open, and "the process", which will allow him to get better throughout the season...peaking at tournament time, has only begun. Give him time, for gosh sakes. Listen to Cael, he throws comments out there that shows no concern for Jimmy. That's important.
To understand just how wide open 141 is...remember, the preseason #1 ranked guy, Evan Henderson, has already lost twice, and we're just wrapping up the 3rd week of the season.
Some good comments here (paraphrased); Jimmy won't blow any of the top wrestlers away, he sometimes has trouble with taller wrestlers, he even has inexplicable losses. But he's in a new weight class that's pretty wide open, and "the process", which will allow him to get better throughout the season...peaking at tournament time, has only begun. Give him time, for gosh sakes. Listen to Cael, he throws comments out there that shows no concern for Jimmy. That's important.
To understand just how wide open 141 is...remember, the preseason #1 ranked guy, Evan Henderson, has already lost twice, and we're just wrapping up the 3rd week of the season.
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How many times did Quentin Wright lose as a sophomore? Nico as a freshman? James English as a senior?
Trust the coaches. Trust the process. Ignore the noise.
Trust the coaches. Trust the process. Ignore the noise.
ignore the noise queue the marketing team....
I can see Jimmy getting handed a pair of Flips headphones and then chilling out in the tunnel at NCAAs .... only to take them off, hand to cody, shove open the curtain and then take off running to the elevated stage.....
I agree with what several other posters have already posted - I don't think Jimmy looks any different at 141 than he did it 133....and he did AA at 133. I think the basic issue with Jimmy is that his clear strength is Neutral - not a great mat wrestler. When he dominates somebody, like most truly great wrestlers, it starts from the Neutral position - the issue with Jimmy imho is - his Offense seems to get neutralized to easily. The most dominating Offensive wrestlers, a guy like DT, even extremely good defensive wrestlers are powerless to stop his neutral attacks and stop him from building a big lead. The best wrestlers are able to stay off their backs against guys like a Q or a DT or a Ruth, but they can not stop their attacks from neutral. So Jimmy gets in matches where his competitive strength is theoretically Neutral and when his offense disappears (or he gives up an easy TD early because he just isn't paying attention - this has happened a lot).....you know it is going to be a very, very, very long day for Jimmy because he is just not a great mat wrestlers especially when wrestling a guy that is a great mat wrestler.
Sometimes I think we do allow our "early expectations" to define our analysis or views on a wrestler. Jimmy was a dominating HS wrestler - even in national tournaments. Doesn't mean he can sustain that dominance at collegiate level......and making AA is no small accomplishment. Unfair to say he is not an elite wrestler - he made AA last year - but Jimmy's neutral offense is probably not quite as dominating as many thought it would be based on his HS career on the "national level".
Got ridden like a rented mule today.
I will say again that it's a little unfair to JG that he is on a team of superstars. He's a very good wrestler, who on normal clubs might be the 2nd or 3rd best wrestler, but on this club he's 7th or 8th and faces tough comparisons standing next to the greatness of many of his teammates.
I will say again that it's a little unfair to JG that he is on a team of superstars. He's a very good wrestler, who on normal clubs might be the 2nd or 3rd best wrestler, but on this club he's 7th or 8th and faces tough comparisons standing next to the greatness of many of his teammates.
NittanyChris...what did I say? I told you bro...
I think McKenna will beat him handily. Maybe not point wise but with control of pace, riding etc. Jimmy just seems off at the new weight but it's still early in the season. He has the ability to beat McKenna but I really don't think he will. McKenna has gotten considerably better and is wrestling with a ton of confidence coming off his World Team experience & training.
I have no stats to back this up. but it seems JG has a hard time coming back once he falls behind. Since he doesn't push the pace like many of our kids, he's not always going to wear kids down by the 3rd quarter.
Getting caught flat footed a few seconds after the start changed the whole complexion match.
Getting caught flat footed a few seconds after the start changed the whole complexion match.
I think it has more to do with not getting to legs/finishing when he does than it does with pushing the pace. Jimmy gets in on that low single all the time and his finish rate is horrendous
