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Couple things I noticed with the roster updates

dicemen99

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2005
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Official roster was tweaked a bit and I noticed a couple things. Hoping maybe some here on the board have some info:

Incoming walkon freshman that never made it onto the official roster:

*Mike Marino - I can only assume he is not wrestling at all as I don't think there is anyway he wouldn't be doing better than a few of the freshman walkons currently on the roster.
*Devon Bentley
*Kyle Baker

Gary Dinmore is enrolled now at PSU, but not listed on roster - don't know if we are capped at 36 and this is why???

We are painfully thin down low - if Gulibon had gotten injured, I'm assuming we would have had to roll Yankovich out there at 133 - not too put the kid down, but that would have been a bad situation. Right now Yankovich is the backup for Conaway also.

Adding someone down low is as big a priority as 285 although it should be easier as 125 will clear in 2017.

Counting committed high school kids (Manville, Joseph, Stout) we have 8 kids who are or project to be quality starters between 157 and 184 (4 weights) with Freshman or less (RS, High School) eligibility - we are getting jammed up there, plus there are some quality backups there - Morelli/Brill transfers, Phipps, Van Cura/Weldon may project to be quality backups if you look at their results this year - where we don't really have any down low or 285. If Joseph outgrows 149 it will make 9.

I would expect there to be some changes in the coming year or two in the middle. There are going to be some losses in the middle - especially if Joseph is not a 49.

RIght now recruiting wise the next two years (2016/2017) I'm thinking:

125/133 (2) - Chad Red would be a great get in class of 2016, followed by an all out assault on Spencer Lee (2017). Pletcher in the mix also, but I don't see him as a 125 anymore and there is no room at the inn at 41, so Red may fit better right now versatility wise early in his career.

141/149 (0) - 141 seems set right now and going forward - either Retherford or Moss holding this down for the next 3 years, one could bump to 49 if needed in 2017. Two more years of Beitz and bringing in Joseph, we will see how long he stays down - his career probably split between 49 and 57. If he is moving to 57, then maybe we need someone in the 2017 class, but we also have Dinmore here basically counting as a 2015 recruit.

157/165 (1-Manville) - We have another year of Frey, plus Hammond, Law, Nolf and bringing in Manville (who I expect will be 165 max - he doesn't project much bigger to me, but who knows) - we are done here for a bit

174/184 (possibly 1) - Again, lots of guys here. I could see them bringing in Mark Hall only for 2016, possibly a 2017 kid. Need Nickal to start putting on the beef immediately - he needs to get to 184 and not because of McCutcheon, because we are stacking up at 174 and below. We also look like we have some quality backups here in Pagano and Van Cura has potential despite his record..

197/285 (1) - definitely need someone here, doubtfully a true 285 as any top one will not come to sit behind Nevills. These are difficult weights to recruit but I expect we will add someone of prominence here plus a walkon or two. Cassar could develop, but I don't see him adding weight to go to 285 until somebody (Stout, McCutcheon?? shows him that McIntosh's spot isn't up for grabs). NY has some good kids that I could see as walkons, and you have Dietrich, Colbray and possibly even Matt Correnti in 2016.
This post was edited on 2/19 3:44 PM by dicemen99
 
Nice job. I enjoyed the read. 125 & 133 are real scary when it comes to depth. I agree with 197 and heavyweight next year. Would love to see Mark Hall come here and move Nickle to 184. I'm not sure Joeseph stays at 149. It will be interesting.
 
If Mark Hall commits to Psu, we win for many, many years. Really that simple
 
Originally posted by jschrantz:
If Mark Hall commits to Psu, we win for many, many years. Really that simple
I'm going to have to disagree with you on his impact here. I think you are underestimating Rasheed's ability. Yes, Hall is probably superior at this time but Rasheed is going to surprise people and be very, very good if he stays healthy. Hopefully in two years (when Hall will be a true freshman) it will be Rasheed-174 and Nickal-184. With Hall in the lineup instead of one of them over the course of 3 years I would be surprised if the difference in points at Nationals will be more than 10 and it could be less. If Hall comes here, somebody very good is going to transfer or be on the bench.
 
Dice,

Hearing someone like you confirm what I've been hearing on Rasheed brings a big smile to my face. Your write up is awesome
by the way and much appreciated , thanks for the in depth analysis
 
A hypothetical 2018 lineup of:
- 125 Lee (true FR)
- 133 Suriano or Red (RS FR)
- 141 Zain (RS SR)
- 149 Beats (RS SR)
- 157 Nolf (RS JR)
- 165 The Anvil (RS FR)
- 174 Nickal (RS JR)
- 184 Hall (RS FR)
- 197 Mouse (RS SR) or Stout (RS SO) or Sasquatch (RS FR or RS SO?)
- 285 Nevills (RS JR)

is awfully fun to ponder. Of course that's a lot of ifs between recruits and maintaining weight ... still.
 
Good lineup but I think you need to put Joseph in there. Beitz will be graduated in 2018.

Plus I think it's Rasheed at 174 and Nickel at 184 by then. And I wouldn't be surprised if Manville and Nolf switched weights.
Originally posted by El-Jefe:
A hypothetical 2018 lineup of:
- 125 Lee (true FR)
- 133 Suriano or Red (RS FR)
- 141 Zain (RS SR)
- 149 Beats (RS SR)
- 157 Nolf (RS JR)
- 165 The Anvil (RS FR)
- 174 Nickal (RS JR)
- 184 Hall (RS FR)
- 197 Mouse (RS SR) or Stout (RS SO) or Sasquatch (RS FR or RS SO?)
- 285 Nevills (RS JR)

is awfully fun to ponder. Of course that's a lot of ifs between recruits and maintaining weight ... still.
 
Good catch. With that lineup, we could afford a slip-up like that!
 
FYI, it's been reported that Frey isn't coming back next season. Unless something changes, this is his last year wrestling at PSU.
 
Originally posted by El-Jefe:
Good catch. With that lineup, we could afford a slip-up like that!
Absolutely! I know a lot of things can change projecting kids in college, but the early returns on the 3 Ns make me feel like we aren't going to have any misses there and as I posted before, if Rasheed stays healthy I think we got 4 studs in this year, plus some good kids for development.

I really like Red also, have seen him wrestle a few times and he is a hammer - good in all positions. Would love to see him in Blue and White.
 
Originally posted by BruceK-PSU83:
FYI, it's been reported that Frey isn't coming back next season. Unless something changes, this is his last year wrestling at PSU.
Yes, as of right now this will be his last year.
 
Dice


I keep seeing people talk about Rasheed and am aware of his finish in the one tournament this year. Is this just speculation on his development or is there more to it? I am not doubting your opinion just wondering where this comes from.
 
Re: Dice


Originally posted by psualt:

I keep seeing people talk about Rasheed and am aware of his finish in the one tournament this year. Is this just speculation on his development or is there more to it? I am not doubting your opinion just wondering where this comes from.
1) Personally, I liked him in HS - thought he was very underrated as he is one of those NY kids who don't get a lot of exposure. Kid was a NHSCA JR. Champ and a 2x NYS Champion, 4x finalist, 5x medalist. Compare his resume to someone like Nick Piccininni of NY and there is not a ton of difference - especially when you consider the weights they competed at. Everyone knows Piccininni because he beat Pletcher and he is a highly coveted recruit. Rasheed should have been as coveted - not sure what the issue was - exposure, grades, the injury concern?????

2) If you read between the lines when Cael speaks about the freshman (rarely, lol) he is always including Rasheed with the 3 Ns - obviously, he is as high on Rasheed as he is on Nolf, Nickal & Nevills

3) One of my good buddies dad is one of the top wrestling boosters. He usually has some good inside info (although it always comes a little tinted, kind of like JohnDoe but not quite as over the top). He's been really high on him also.

4) His body of work is limited, but is in line with the above. Bumping up a weight class (he did try to make 165 and missed by .1) he performed well and losing to Joey Davis at 174 is not a bad thing. Davis would be a guy who would threaten to AA in D1.
 
Re: Does anyone really know where PSU stands with


Originally posted by cpn1sgm:
Chad Red and Mark Hall.
It seems that the stand very well with Red - but who knows how much money they will offer. Red will be offered money by lots of schools.

Hall is a real question mark and I would expect that to continue right up to the day he announces.
 
Re: Dice

Rasheed: he was roughly a top 40-60 national recruit but missed a big chunk of his HS SR year with shoulder injuries. He committed right around NY states. Those injuries are why he was still around that long.

Red: there was a thread about him a few weeks ago, don't think anything's changed since. Basically: his goal is to wrestle for Penn State. He and his father (also his HS and club coach) have attended PSU camps for several years. He's trying hard to impress the coaches (note, not impress Mike Evans, that would be impossible!), and Cael has noticed.

Cautiously optimistic. Of course you never know until he receives offers and signs. If he and Suriano both project to the same college weight in 2016, then what? Etc. But so far, so good.
 
Re: Dice


Originally posted by El-Jefe:
Rasheed: he was roughly a top 40-60 national recruit but missed a big chunk of his HS SR year with shoulder injuries. He committed right around NY states. Those injuries are why he was still around that long.

Red: there was a thread about him a few weeks ago, don't think anything's changed since. Basically: his goal is to wrestle for Penn State. He and his father (also his HS and club coach) have attended PSU camps for several years. He's trying hard to impress the coaches (note, not impress Mike Evans, that would be impossible!), and Cael has noticed.

Cautiously optimistic. Of course you never know until he receives offers and signs. If he and Suriano both project to the same college weight in 2016, then what? Etc. But so far, so good.
Red is every bit the college prospect that Suriano is. And I agree, Mike Evans would NOT be impressed with Red. Although I think he WOULD be impressed with Suriano - having seen him wrestle for years now they strike me as two peas in a pod.
 
some responses ...


diceman - thanks for starting a great discussion!

Official roster was tweaked a bit and I noticed a couple things. Hoping maybe some here on the board have some info:

Incoming walkon freshman that never made it onto the official roster:

*Mike Marino - I can only assume he is not wrestling at all as I don't think there is anyway he wouldn't be doing better than a few of the freshman walkons currently on the roster.
*Devon Bentley
*Kyle Baker
Interesting ... I hadn't noticed Marino's absence. BTW, does anybody remember the name and weight of the kid from NV that verballed to PSU a few years ago? I thought he was heading off on a mission, so perhaps he'll be joining the team next year. I really have lost track of him, and can't even remember his name/weight.

Gary Dinmore is enrolled now at PSU, but not listed on roster - don't know if we are capped at 36 and this is why???
Perhaps Tim can answer this. He seemed to be the first guy amongst those that cover PSU wrestling that became aware that Dinmore was going to grayshirt. I had heard that Gary was working out at PSU. If he's enrolled, he must be a part-time student, or his eligibility clock would start running even if he's not on the team. I presumed that Dinmore's RD was due to PSU was trying to manage the guys they had at different weight classes, but that was speculation on my part -- not backed by any solid information.

We are painfully thin down low - if Gulibon had gotten injured, I'm assuming we would have had to roll Yankovich out there at 133 - not too put the kid down, but that would have been a bad situation. Right now Yankovich is the backup for Conaway also.
Agreed. PSU has a lot of depth in the roster, but only at some of the weights do they have someone that could step in and not be a step down in performance. At 133 the team's only options this year were Gulibon and Conaway. I'm not sure if Waters certified at 133 or 141, but even if he certified at 133 he would need some time to get down to that weight. And with Conaway starting at 125, he really wasn't a great option to replace an injured Gulibon. Yanovich may well have been forced to bump up if Jimmy had gotten injured, though he was not going to perform at a level anywhere close to Jimmy (IMHO).

Adding someone down low is as big a priority as 285 although it should be easier as 125 will clear in 2017.
From a depth perspective, I'd agree. El-Jefe and I have somewhat warned about the lack of depth at both positions over the past year, and also wondered what the recruiting philosophy was at the 2 weights. The problems at 285 are exacerbated by most of the better wrestlers also being football players, as well as Nevills being so highly regarded. That said, PSU is going to go from having 4 heavies to only 1 heavy next year (unless they add someone between now and next season), and with Nevills suffering the foot injury earlier this year it does point out the danger of only carrying 1 heavy. As for 133, I'm not sure what the coaches plan to do. I don't doubt that they have a plan -- I'm just not aware of the details.

Counting committed high school kids (Manville, Joseph, Stout) we have 8 kids who are or project to be quality starters between 157 and 184 (4 weights) with Freshman or less (RS, High School) eligibility - we are getting jammed up there, plus there are some quality backups there - Morelli/Brill transfers, Phipps, Van Cura/Weldon may project to be quality backups if you look at their results this year - where we don't really have any down low or 285. If Joseph outgrows 149 it will make 9.

I would expect there to be some changes in the coming year or two in the middle. There are going to be some losses in the middle - especially if Joseph is not a 49.
Interesting observation. I hadn't thought too much about the collection of talent in the those weights. If Cenzo outgrows 149, that leave the team rather thin at that weight. Should that happen in the next year or 2, PSU will have to recruit someone at that weight, and/or Moss will have to try to bulk up a bit. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see Zain moving up from 141.

It will be interesting to see how this works out. Morelli, Brill, and Phipps will be bucking to get into the lineup, but that's likely to be difficult to do with Nolf at 157, Hammond/Law/Rasheed at 165, Nickal/Rasheed at 174, and Nickal/Cutch at 184.

RIght now recruiting wise the next two years (2016/2017) I'm thinking:

125/133 (2) - Chad Red would be a great get in class of 2016, followed by an all out assault on Spencer Lee (2017). Pletcher in the mix also, but I don't see him as a 125 anymore and there is no room at the inn at 41, so Red may fit better right now versatility wise early in his career.
Red would be an awesome pickup in 2016, and the interest between him and PSU is pretty well established. Lee would be a DT-like pickup in 2017. I would be surprised if any of the top teams are not all-in for Lee, which should make this a real fight. Lee/his family have been pretty guarded about not saying much about college plans, which is smart of them, and also not a big surprise for a kid that's in the middle of his sophomore year in high school. If PSU were to land Red and Lee, I'll freely admit that PSU handled the 125/133 recruiting perfectly, and that my earlier concerns were unwarranted. If they don't, well, let's not go there. ;)

RIght now recruiting wise the next two years (2016/2017) I'm thinking:

141/149 (0) - 141 seems set right now and going forward - either Retherford or Moss holding this down for the next 3 years, one could bump to 49 if needed in 2017. Two more years of Beitz and bringing in Joseph, we will see how long he stays down - his career probably split between 49 and 57. If he is moving to 57, then maybe we need someone in the 2017 class, but we also have Dinmore here basically counting as a 2015 recruit.
So many variables here. 141 does seem set with Zain or Moss for the next 3 years. If 1 of them outgrows the weight, we do seem a tad thin there. 149 is set for 2 years with Beitz. I'm counting on Joseph battling him in the room and either stepping in after he graduates or taking the spot from him. If Joseph outgrows 149 before either of those events, then we're thin at 149 as well. As I stated earlier, I think that Moss will move up to 149 if Zain comes back at 141. Dinmore is also a wildcard. He wrestled 152 as a senior in HS. In that context, I wonder how long he'll be able to make 149 in college (though Cutch wrestled 195 in HS and is wrestling 184 in college, so it's not as though everybody goes up in weight after entering college). If things play out as I/we hope, I doubt PSU will looking for anyone at these weights for at least 2, and probably 3 years.

RIght now recruiting wise the next two years (2016/2017) I'm thinking:

157/165 (1-Manville) - We have another year of Frey, plus Hammond, Law, Nolf and bringing in Manville (who I expect will be 165 max - he doesn't project much bigger to me, but who knows) - we are done here for a bit
Can't disagree with any of this. Nolf/Joseph should address 157 for the next 4-5 years. It would surprise me if Joseph went above 157. Nolf seems like he can make 157 for at least a few years. If not, some combo of Joseph, Manville, and Dinmore should be able to man 157.

RIght now recruiting wise the next two years (2016/2017) I'm thinking:

174/184 (possibly 1) - Again, lots of guys here. I could see them bringing in Mark Hall only for 2016, possibly a 2017 kid. Need Nickal to start putting on the beef immediately - he needs to get to 184 and not because of McCutcheon, because we are stacking up at 174 and below. We also look like we have some quality backups here in Pagano and Van Cura has potential despite his record.
So many possibilities as mentioned earlier. I think Nickal will, on his own, grow out of 174. He wrestled 170 in HS, and seems to have the length where the natural maturation process will bump him up to 184. Then again, I have no idea how much he cut in HS, so perhaps making 174 is not much of a challenge for him at this time. With what's on the current roster, there isn't much of a need here in the next few years. That said, Mark Hall is too good to not find a slot for him in the room. Minny and Iowa seem to be all over him, and I'm sure others will be players.

RIght now recruiting wise the next two years (2016/2017) I'm thinking:

197/285 (1) - definitely need someone here, doubtfully a true 285 as any top one will not come to sit behind Nevills. These are difficult weights to recruit but I expect we will add someone of prominence here plus a walkon or two. Cassar could develop, but I don't see him adding weight to go to 285 until somebody (Stout, McCutcheon?? shows him that McIntosh's spot isn't up for grabs). NY has some good kids that I could see as walkons, and you have Dietrich, Colbray and possibly even Matt Correnti in 2016.
PSU has had Cassar in the room for a year, so they should have a good sense of how he projects in the future. Can he be a good replacement for McIntosh after next season? Not a lot of evidence of that from his performances in Opens. We really do need to trust the coaches here. If Cassar is questionable, then going all-out to land Hall would make more sense. He would jam things up a bit at 184, but between Cutch, Nickal, and Hall the team should be able to man 195 if Cassar is not the man. And what would a discussion about PSU at 197 be if I didn't at least mention Sasquatch. (Kudos to El-Jefe for keeping the nickname I gave him alive in the discussion!) Until we read otherwise, we have to think that he's on PSU's radar.

285, as discussed above, is begging for another good wrestler, if for no other reason than to push Nevills and serve as a competent backup to him. It would not surprise me to read this year about PSU landing someone during the late signing period at 285, or to read this year that a 285 lber was planning to walk on.

Again, thanks for starting a great discussion.

Tom
 
Re: some responses ...

The NV kid was Bronson Ashjian. 33/41. Gave Grey a good go a couple of years ago. He's in sasquatch territory
 
Re: some responses ...

A couple more names to watch, that haven't been discussed above:

125/133: too many to name. Looking for someone to emerge at states as a walk-on candidate

157/165: Isaiah White (unlikely unless Nolf quickly outgrows 157)

197/285:
- 2015: Buzzy Maines? (Probably not if he wants to go 197, see Stout)
- 2016: AJ Nevills?

285:
- 2015: Allan Beattie and Dylan Otis are the best 2 left (Otis to Army?); Omar Haddad, Andrew Phelps
- 2016: Jake Robb (Nolf's teammate at Kittanning; beat Beattie and Otis this year)


EDIT: scratch Otis, he did commit to West Point earlier this week.


This post was edited on 2/20 7:11 PM by El-Jefe
 
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