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Defense: 2017 vs. 2018

mgkpsu

mgkpsu

Well-Known Member
Nov 30, 2005
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Through the first 4 games:

2017:
69 Completions 124 Attempts 55.7% 634 Yards 2 TD
151 Attempts 460 Yards 3.1 Avg 2 TD
10 Turnovers

2018:
74 Completions 128 Attempts 57.8% 693 Yards 5 TD
171 Attempts 690 Yards 4.0 Avg 4 TD
6 Turnovers

Considering the fact that we have had at least 5 quarters of garbage time, during which a record number of freshmen played, are those numbers really enough for folks to be suicidal?

If so, then I hate to inform you that things got uglier as 2017 went on, resulting in the following per game averages:
20.2 Completions 34.5 Attempts 58.4% 211.5 Yards 0.9 TD
34.6 Attempts 119.4 Yards 3.4 Avg 1.1 TD
1.9 Turnovers

And our 2018 per game averages are:
18.5 Completions 32 Attempts 57.8% 173.25 Yards 1.3 TD
42.8 Attempts 172.5 Yards 4.0 Avg 1.0 TD
1.5 Turnovers

So one could argue that folks are being more than a little melodramatic when whining about our D.
 
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Yep. But gee, big bad Ohio State is coming to town and they are so good we don’t stand a chance. Yeah, right. Don’t be surprised if we lay a whooping on them. Offense clicks with Trace and the running game and untested Haskins gets hit a few times and throws a couple of picks, the avalanche may happen. Our D has been shutdown in second halves except for the App St. 4th quarter blip.
 
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I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
 
MrLeone said:
I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
Click to expand...
How does our overall record the past few years support your opinion? We were blown out 1 time and that was due to a sanction depleted team, injuries, and a crappy targeting call vs Michigan. Hindsight is 20-20. App State's QB is tearing it up, Pitt had a nice first half and then, pffft, same thing for Illinois, who averages over 200 yds rushing per game. The days of a truly dominating defense are gone, offense is now the rage and when we are putting up between 40-60 points a game, that puts a lot of pressure on the other team's D as well as changes their offensive philosophy.
 
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mgkpsu said:
Through the first 4 games:

2017:
69 Completions 124 Attempts 55.7% 634 Yards 2 TD
151 Attempts 460 Yards 3.1 Avg 2 TD
10 Turnovers

2018:
74 Completions 128 Attempts 57.8% 693 Yards 5 TD
171 Attempts 690 Yards 4.0 Avg 4 TD
6 Turnovers

Considering the fact that we have had at least 5 quarters of garbage time, during which a record number of freshmen played, are those numbers really enough for folks to be suicidal?

If so, then I hate to inform you that things got uglier as 2017 went on, resulting in the following per game averages:
20.2 Completions 34.5 Attempts 58.4% 211.5 Yards 0.9 TD
34.6 Attempts 119.4 Yards 3.4 Avg 1.1 TD
1.9 Turnovers

And our 2018 per game averages are:
18.5 Completions 32 Attempts 57.8% 173.25 Yards 1.3 TD
42.8 Attempts 172.5 Yards 4.0 Avg 1.0 TD
1.5 Turnovers

So one could argue that folks are being more than a little melodramatic when whining about our D.
Click to expand...

Expressing concern about the defense does not mean people are suicidal.
 
mgkpsu said:
Through the first 4 games:

2017:
69 Completions 124 Attempts 55.7% 634 Yards 2 TD
151 Attempts 460 Yards 3.1 Avg 2 TD
10 Turnovers

2018:
74 Completions 128 Attempts 57.8% 693 Yards 5 TD
171 Attempts 690 Yards 4.0 Avg 4 TD
6 Turnovers

Considering the fact that we have had at least 5 quarters of garbage time, during which a record number of freshmen played, are those numbers really enough for folks to be suicidal?

If so, then I hate to inform you that things got uglier as 2017 went on, resulting in the following per game averages:
20.2 Completions 34.5 Attempts 58.4% 211.5 Yards 0.9 TD
34.6 Attempts 119.4 Yards 3.4 Avg 1.1 TD
1.9 Turnovers

And our 2018 per game averages are:
18.5 Completions 32 Attempts 57.8% 173.25 Yards 1.3 TD
42.8 Attempts 172.5 Yards 4.0 Avg 1.0 TD
1.5 Turnovers

So one could argue that folks are being more than a little melodramatic when whining about our D.
Click to expand...

Fans are often more critical of their own team...nature of the beast. You will notice and be more critical of a game you watch with crazy interest in rather than another game that is just on. When you see your team get gouged for 200 or so on the ground by less talented teams in basically one half of football, it will raise an eyebrow. This is not unique to PSU, OSU fans have the same concerns with their LB's and safties currently. Yet nobody here is really dissecting their play as I doubt they watch them with as critical eye like they do for PSU.
 
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MrLeone said:
I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
Click to expand...
my take is that if you rate the former staff (late in Joe's career) over the current one that you need to rethink your position
 
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It's not like The Ohio States defense has been dominate. They did give up 31 points to Oregon State and not all of that was in garbage time. TCU got tonthem as well and we are better than TCU. Could come down to a big special team play
 
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MrLeone said:
I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
Click to expand...
You lost me at “poorly coached”.
 
MrLeone said:
I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
Click to expand...
I don't as they wouldn't be playing the frosh, the defense would be getting tired and there would be no improvement as the year went along. JMO there, but this staff does a much better job of developing talent and bringing the younger guys along and that includes some growing pains along the way. To be honest, I didn't watch much of UCLA, but I don't recall reading how good their defense was the last few years.
 
MrLeone said:
I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
Click to expand...
You must be one of those "eye test" guys.
 
bdgan said:
Expressing concern about the defense does not mean people are suicidal.
Click to expand...
When people come on here saying things like "10-14 point loss", I want to know how to reconcile that "Whoa is me" crapola with those numbers.
 
mgkpsu said:
Through the first 4 games:

2017:
69 Completions 124 Attempts 55.7% 634 Yards 2 TD
151 Attempts 460 Yards 3.1 Avg 2 TD
10 Turnovers

2018:
74 Completions 128 Attempts 57.8% 693 Yards 5 TD
171 Attempts 690 Yards 4.0 Avg 4 TD
6 Turnovers

Considering the fact that we have had at least 5 quarters of garbage time, during which a record number of freshmen played, are those numbers really enough for folks to be suicidal?

If so, then I hate to inform you that things got uglier as 2017 went on, resulting in the following per game averages:
20.2 Completions 34.5 Attempts 58.4% 211.5 Yards 0.9 TD
34.6 Attempts 119.4 Yards 3.4 Avg 1.1 TD
1.9 Turnovers

And our 2018 per game averages are:
18.5 Completions 32 Attempts 57.8% 173.25 Yards 1.3 TD
42.8 Attempts 172.5 Yards 4.0 Avg 1.0 TD
1.5 Turnovers

So one could argue that folks are being more than a little melodramatic when whining about our D.
Click to expand...
Remarkable how similar the passing stats are. In regards to the rushing comparison, while it may not seem to be that dramatic, a 3.1 vs 4.0 yards per avg delta is quite significant.
 
PineIslandLion said:
Remarkable how similar the passing stats are. In regards to the rushing comparison, while it may not seem to be that dramatic, a 3.1 vs 4.0 yards per avg delta is quite significant.
Click to expand...
That's just for the first 4 games. For the season we're talking 3.4 versus 4.0. A hair over half a yard with 8 (?) new starters is to be expected. Passing defense being better, and off-setting the rushing, is also to be considered. App State is clearly the best team we played out of conference in either year, so I can only imagine what it would have looked like if they had been replaced with a cupcake.
 
mgkpsu said:
Through the first 4 games:

2017:
69 Completions 124 Attempts 55.7% 634 Yards 2 TD
151 Attempts 460 Yards 3.1 Avg 2 TD
10 Turnovers

2018:
74 Completions 128 Attempts 57.8% 693 Yards 5 TD
171 Attempts 690 Yards 4.0 Avg 4 TD
6 Turnovers
Click to expand...

The case against the PSU D isn't the stats, it's what you see when you watch them play. They have played two teams with good QBs and they really struggled against both. You saw the game at Champaign, you'd have no idea from the final score, but they were in serious danger there. Both Pitt and IL really largely stopped themselves with mistakes and penalties -- the PSU D didn't exactly shut them down.

I don't know why so many people are in denial about this. Everybody can see it, Franklin is very candid talking about it. They have some experienced players who are a little below B1G standard, other experienced players learning new positions and then freshmen and RS at LB who are completely lost at times.

But PSU is only what, a 4-point dog at this point?

So there is plenty of reason for hope in this game, but don't expect miracles from the PSU D.

They are going to get beaten all day, there are going to be ugly moments, they just have to keep playing hard, be tough in the red zone, be opportunistic and play for turnovers.
 
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mgkpsu said:
That's just for the first 4 games. For the season we're talking 3.4 versus 4.0. A hair over half a yard with 8 (?) new starters is to be expected. Passing defense being better, and off-setting the rushing, is also to be considered. App State is clearly the best team we played out of conference in either year, so I can only imagine what it would have looked like if they had been replaced with a cupcake.
Click to expand...
We are currently ranked 82nd in rushing defense (thanks for nothing, Pitt!), and Ohio State is 59th (the difference is 30 yards per game).
We are currently ranked 29th in passing yards allowed, and Ohio State is 39th.

Given the performance of our offense to this point, there is no logical/tangible reason for any PSU fan to be bowing down to OSU before the game is played.
 
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tboyer said:
The case against the PSU D isn't the stats, it's what you see when you watch them play. They have played two teams with good QBs and they really struggled against both. You saw the game at Champaign, you'd have no idea from the final score, but they were in serious danger there. Both Pitt and IL really largely stopped themselves with mistakes and penalties -- the PSU D didn't exactly shut them down.

I don't know why so many people are in denial about this. Everybody can see it, Franklin is very candid talking about it. They have some experienced players who are a little below B1G standard, other experienced players learning new positions and then freshmen and RS at LB who are completely lost at times.

But PSU is only what, a 4-point dog at this point?

So there is plenty of reason for hope in this game, but don't expect miracles from the PSU D.

They are going to get beaten all day, there are going to be ugly moments, they just have to keep playing hard, be tough in the red zone, be opportunistic and play for turnovers.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "eye test", Herbie! If my argument, based on statistical analysis, isn't valid, then why is yours, based on opinion, correct?
 
There is room for improvement. The bottom line is that we now have some starting LB’s who would struggle to make the 3 - deep on a late 2000’s PSU roster. The best LB’s we now have are very raw.
I expect the defense will improve significantly for 2018.
 
it's funny how when the D is SEEMINGLY doing bad, it's because of terrible coaching, and not because of a young D that's been rotated A BUNCH to find the best unit. Clearly it's Pry's fault.
 
tboyer said:
The case against the PSU D isn't the stats, it's what you see when you watch them play. They have played two teams with good QBs and they really struggled against both. You saw the game at Champaign, you'd have no idea from the final score, but they were in serious danger there. Both Pitt and IL really largely stopped themselves with mistakes and penalties -- the PSU D didn't exactly shut them down.

I don't know why so many people are in denial about this. Everybody can see it, Franklin is very candid talking about it. They have some experienced players who are a little below B1G standard, other experienced players learning new positions and then freshmen and RS at LB who are completely lost at times.

But PSU is only what, a 4-point dog at this point?

So there is plenty of reason for hope in this game, but don't expect miracles from the PSU D.

They are going to get beaten all day, there are going to be ugly moments, they just have to keep playing hard, be tough in the red zone, be opportunistic and play for turnovers.
Click to expand...

The "eye test" is really all you have when playing teams that don't have the same level of athletes. That's why the current playoff selection process is so bogus, because they do just that.

Fans on this board can't stomach it. For them, it's like someone wearing the opponents colors in the blue and white section. They get angry. For them, this board is the blue and white section, especially the game thread. Post a concern there and you are wearing the other team's colors.
 
What I would like to see is the yardage when 'starters' are in vs '2nd string'.

There appear to be more rotations, and wholesale changes from series/series. I was in champaign and t seemed like a lot of the yardage was against 2nd team.
 
MrLeone said:
My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.
Click to expand...
I do like Vanderlinden and we miss him dearly. I like LJ but Spencer is solid. The trademark Bradley soft zone defense however would get absolutely shredded by Haskins this weekend unless we had an elite DL that could generate pressure all the time (we don't, at least not yet).
 
mgkpsu said:
Sorry, but I don't subscribe to the "eye test", Herbie! If my argument, based on statistical analysis, isn't valid, then why is yours, based on opinion, correct?
Click to expand...

Just because. The D is struggling, it just is. Early season stats have to be taken with a shaker of salt. You have to line up the stats with what you see in the games.

I think the fact that PSU is rushing for 270 yards a game is an indication of something, because you can see how the run blocking is working and how effective Sanders is running between the tackles. This is going to be a different running game than we've seen for the last 5-6 seasons -- in a good way.

And I also think the fact that PSU is 82nd in the country against the run is an indication, because you can see the DL at times getting muscled around, linebackers playing tentatively, certain people frequently out of position, safeties and corners not tackling well. The stats match up pretty well with what you see on the field. All of this will improve with time.

The D's not horrible. They've had trouble with teams that run the ball well. Pitt ran almost at will in the 1st half. IL ran almost at will for the better part of 3 quarters. Ohio State might run at will for 4 quarters.

Doesn't mean PSU can't overcome it and win. Maybe the best news is that this is not the usual dominant Ohio State D. They have some of the same problems PSU has with new starters at LBer. Could be another good day for Sanders and Slade.
 
mgkpsu said:
Through the first 4 games:

2017:
69 Completions 124 Attempts 55.7% 634 Yards 2 TD
151 Attempts 460 Yards 3.1 Avg 2 TD
10 Turnovers

2018:
74 Completions 128 Attempts 57.8% 693 Yards 5 TD
171 Attempts 690 Yards 4.0 Avg 4 TD
6 Turnovers

Considering the fact that we have had at least 5 quarters of garbage time, during which a record number of freshmen played, are those numbers really enough for folks to be suicidal?

If so, then I hate to inform you that things got uglier as 2017 went on, resulting in the following per game averages:
20.2 Completions 34.5 Attempts 58.4% 211.5 Yards 0.9 TD
34.6 Attempts 119.4 Yards 3.4 Avg 1.1 TD
1.9 Turnovers

And our 2018 per game averages are:
18.5 Completions 32 Attempts 57.8% 173.25 Yards 1.3 TD
42.8 Attempts 172.5 Yards 4.0 Avg 1.0 TD
1.5 Turnovers

So one could argue that folks are being more than a little melodramatic when whining about our D.
Click to expand...
So the fact that our defense is comparable to a 2017 defense that gave up 529 yards (6.8 ypp) to OSU is a good thing? And 2018 team is giving up more rushing ypp. Yikes.

I'm not going chicken little and saying that we are going to get killed, but there is definitely reason for concern. Pry better come prepared because Meyer will exploit any weakness.
 
I get all the concern with our defense.

Where is the same concern with the Buckeyes D? Do they earn a magic seal of approval because they have Meyer? There numbers look like trash too.

Realistically speaking, it sounds like the offenses are going to march up and down the field at will. Penalties, turnovers, punts will likely sway this game midway, but I don't discount either offense until the clock reads 0:00.
 
MrLeone said:
I disagree. In my humble opinion the defense is poorly coached and will cost us several games this year.

I hope that I’m wrong but it seems they are poorly prepared for Every game, at least the first half and get shredded. I don’t blame the players for that although we are young.

My take is Vanderlinden, Bradley and Johnson would have this defense playing at a higher level.

We will see...
Click to expand...

And there it is.......the first Vanderlinden reference of the day.

Jeeze, move on.
 
I think the current betting line is OSU -3.5. That spread speaks volumes of what Vegas think of the Penn State defense. I firmly believe that if the fans are on adrenaline alert the Ohio State QB will go to a silent count and that's when the Nittany Lion defense will cause havoc in the backfield. I can't wait till Saturday night!
 
stormingnorm said:
My “take” is: You don’t know dick. :)


What happens Saturday night? Who the F knows - - - except that two of the top teams in the country will play, one will win.
Click to expand...

My take is you need to better understand what our coaching strengths and weaknesses are.
 
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