UBL took credit for 9/11 and he was not entitled to due process beyond Rule 303, which was what he got.
Eliminating threads
- Thread starter roswelllion
- Start date
UBL took credit for 9/11 and he was not entitled to due process beyond Rule 303, which was what he got.
Exactly! The only reason I can think of for why MM didn't do the very thing you described is that OAG had something to hang over his head. Whether it was the sending of nude pics on PSU cell phone (which would end his marrage/coaching career) or gambling (which would end his coaching career) who knows....suing the crap out of the OAG would have been one of the first things on my list if I was him.
Yes, MM did send an email to the OAG after he was getting hammered publicly for how he handled the situation. As for the OAG's portrayal, Mike did say in his statement to investigators that he was certain that sodomy was occurring. If he wasn't certain, then why did he say he was certain? As for the GJP leak, why is this such a big issue. The content of the GJP is the issue not when it was released.
But wait, you think he is guilty...right? LOL, some here cry fair trial and
Wow you guys missed that. My bad. Maybe you can help out Cosby next.....damn witch hunts!!!!!
Wow you guys missed that. My bad. Maybe you can help out Cosby next.....damn witch hunts!!!!!
This is the only case that I'm very familiar with pal. I'm not aware of any other cases where the trial made a complete mockery of the judicial system but I'm sure there are others out there. This has absolutely nothing to do with Joe/PSU. It has to do with the judicial system in PA and how corrupted it has become (ends justify the means).
Yes he was given a trial and that trial was an absolute joke and you know it. His defense attorneys were either the most incompetent in the world or they were compromised somehow.
Just answer this simple question, would you be ok with it if a GJP was illegally leaked to the public by the prosecutors thus prejudicing the jury pool before you even had your trial? It's a simple question so it would be easy for you to answer.
Would you be ok if you got convicted of crimes where there was no witness, no evidence, no set date, no victim, and no contemporaneous report? Would you be ok with it if one of the prosecution witnesses (JM) was allowed to claim he didn't remember giving testimony from only 6 months prior?
I know damned sure I wouldn't be. If you would not be ok with the above then you are a HUGE hypocrite.
Well, his 2010 statement (certain that sodomy was occurring) didn't even match up with his GJ testimony (sure, pretty sure that sodomy was occurring) and the OAG still went with his 2010 statement instead of his GJ testimony when crafting the GJP. That's the problem.
Also I agree the content of the GJP is the main issue but it's release is also important. At the time of it's release it was still SEALED. The fact that a sealed GJP was somehow "accidentally" posted to the court website and a journalist (Ganim) just so happened to be looking at that exact site at that exact time to be able to access it is what bothers me. The OAG abused and used the GJ/GJP system to their advantage (which is the MO of Corbett/Fina) to taint the jury pool/cause a firestorm against PSU and that's not the way they are supposed to be used.
To this day no one at the OAG has been held accountable for this "accidental" posting of a sealed GJP. Doesn't that bother anyone else? What if it happened to you? Would you not be PISSED??
Oh no, not the would you be ok if it were you card. You sure seem to fight pretty hard for a guy you think is guilty. Just answer this simple question, would you care so much if it wasn't PSU? In other words I believe he is guilty so while the leak sucked and nobody is for that, the trial was based on 8 different people saying he did this to them. You can hang up on the leak all you want to, but without 8 victims there is no leak.
So you just avoid the question instead of answering it b/c you know you will make yourself out to be a hypocrite. Got it. No one in their right mind would be ok with all that stuff happening to them. Just b/c JS was accused of horrific crimes doesn't make it ok for his rights as a U.S. citizen to be violated. Take a moment and reflect on that premise, hopefully that will help you understand where I'm coming from here.
Yes, I would care if it wasn't PSU/ former PSU coach. I fight hard because I have relatives and friends who have fought and DIED protecting the rights/freedoms our Constitution is supposed to provide and in the JS case those rights were flagrantly violated and I'm NOT cool with that even if I do think he's guilty. It's as simple as that.
Once the judicial/fair trial process is compromised where does it stop?
http://www.history.com/topics/osama-bin-ladenBut wait, you think he is guilty...right? LOL, some here cry fair trial and
Wow you guys missed that. My bad. Maybe you can help out Cosby next.....damn witch hunts!!!!!
"Al-Qaida took credit for the bombings. Then, on October 12, 2000, a small boat loaded with explosives plowed into the hull of the U.S.S. Cole, an American naval destroyer docked off the coast of Yemen. 17 sailors were killed and 38 were injured. Bin Laden took credit for that incident as well."
I don't know...you tell me. Do you have a link? Not all GJP's are released but I know some are.
All that matters in my book is that a SEALED GJP was illegally posted and then picked up by the media and spread around when it never should have happened. The judge's order to keep the document sealed was violated. The GJ process was corrupted/abused.
This was reported to the Office of Disciplinary Counsel, along with the issue of lying in the presentment, in May.
Normally, I'd agree with you. But these are not normal times. Since 11/11, much if not most discussion has centered around this type of stuff, and understandably so. What some take exception to is the elimination of specific threads because of personal bias on the part of a moderator or more, due to requests of other posters who may disagree with the opinions expressed in those threads. That in my opinion is "inappropriate censorship." But hey, not my board.
My understanding is that the GJP was posted on that website earlier than originally planned. That may have been the leak, but still think it was going to be released. If you want to be critical of the leaks of GJ testimony and investigation info to Ganim, then that is fair game.
I served for this country and I sleep just fine with Jerry in jail. I'll bet you would be singing a different tune if it were your child who was molested. I doubt you would want your son to live through that experience again. It's really easy to flip that hypocrite card. You're gonna be the one parent who would be sticking up for the molestor, got it.
What is the point of this thread? Arguing about Jerry here is not going to get your hero a new trial. If you want that, call the DA, your senator, congressman, mayor, etc.
Tom- please delete this embarassment
Tom- please delete this embarassment
Hear you, and I'm sure were I a parent in that situation I'd feel exactly as you speculate. But there is a reason we have juries, which are supposed to be unbiased, and the system is supposed to do its best to remove emotion and strive for objectivity. I'll admit in this case, a tall order indeed.
I noticed that you STILL haven't answered my simple question in my previous post. Would you be ok with it if all that stuff happened to you (illegal GJP leaks, etc.)?
If it was my child that got molested and JS ended up getting a new trial I'd be pissed at the OAG/Fina/McGettigan/Corbett/Cleland for running a such a bush league prosecution/trial that enabled JS to get a new trial in the first place.
They should have done everything by the book to ensure this very situation doesn't come about....but they didn't. The OAG are the only ones to blame for that. Nice attempt at deflection though!
Don't forget the dirty tricks that were played with the Statute of Limitations in this, and other cases.
Right you would be pissed at those locking him up. Right, sure you would. I buy that and I'm sure the parents of the victims are steaming mad he is in jail and not getting a second chance right now. Oh wait, no that is just a small group of PSU fans. LMAO. Of course it's wrong for stuff to be leaked and it isn't the first nor the last time it has happened in a high profile case. I'm not worried about it happening to me, but maybe you are for some reason? I honestly don't think twice about it.
The judicial system is not perfect here in the US or anywhere in the world. I believe ours is better than most and I'm quite certain they got this one right. If Jerry gets another trial, I'll shrug my shoulders and shake my head. You on the other hand seem like you would take a victory lap. Maybe that isn't the case, but you sure as hell love to fight for the man daily.
Last edited:
I am sure Mike Nifong wanted discussions of his embarrassment deleted as well, because things that live under rocks do not like the light of day.
You know as well as I do that these discussions allow the exchange of information that might lead to action. I found out about investigators possibly coaching witnesses from a discussion posted by Steve Masters, and I forwarded that to Sandusky's attorney.
And didn't this whole thing come to light because of discussions on this website?
Lol that's actually a pretty good point. I'm not sure about this website bringing the "whole thing to light", but there was talk that the link to McQueary came from this site.
This was a funny commercial. Didn't run long enough.It's on the internet, it's true.
No, I'd be pissed at those in the OAG who did get JS locked up but, due to their incompetence/bush league prosecution, allowed JS to get a new trial and possibly released.
So let me get this straight...if JS gets a new trial you think that would have nothing to do with the OAG's failure to run a legit prosecution the first time...the OAG would have no blame for the new trial happening?? Why would the OAG not be to blame if a new trial happens? It's beyond me how you can even argue otherwise. If not the OAG then who exactly would be to blame??
I see you're still avoiding the question. I didn't ask you if the judicial system was perfect or if it was the first time a GJP leak happened or if it was wrong that it happened, I asked if YOU would be ok if it (OAG shenanigans playing fast and loose with the rules) happened to you. I'm not worried about it happening to me either champ, it's called a hypothetical for a reason and you're doing everything you can to avoid answering a simple question which is quite telling. I also find it telling that you're willing to admit that it's wrong but then you try and justify it by saying it happens all the time. There is NO justification for due process/judicial rule breaking to happen, ever. If it does then it screws up the entire judicial process and can taint the jury pool possibly leading to a mistrial/retrial. Those rules exist for a reason.
I'm not "fighting for the man daily". I already told you I think he's guilty and belongs in jail. My fight isn't for JS, PSU, Joe, or anyone else. It's for PROPER due process and not allowing the Constitution to get flagrantly trampled on just b/c someone was accused of horrific crimes. They are completely SEPARATE issues. Stop trying to conflate everything to fit into your self righteous indignation.
Oh please stop as I answered your question numerous times. I also stated I'm not worried about it happening to me. I love the BS PC talk you throw around about due process and the constitution, it's cute. Really it is. You can cry foul to the cows come home about how awful JS was treated and I won't flinch. I think about 8 young kids being molested first, but that is just me. Where were their rights when Jerry violated them?
For someone who cares so much about due process it's odd you fight it on here instead of somewhere valid. I mean if I actually felt so bad for him due process or trial, I sure as hell wouldn't argue with someone like me on this site. It's a pretty epic waste of time and think about all you could be doing for Jerry and the American way. Again this is about PSU and I get that for some of you, but I don't buy your arguing or fighting for justice on a free football message board. Even more so when it was the school that took most of the collateral damage due to that sick SOB. Notice nobody in the national media is crying foul for Jerry. I doubt they are in in PA or much of the northeast either. How can that be when this is so clear to the world how badly Jerry was railed.
Oh please stop as I answered your question numerous times. I also stated I'm not worried about it happening to me. I love the BS PC talk you throw around about due process and the constitution, it's cute. Really it is. You can cry foul to the cows come home about how awful JS was treated and I won't flinch. I think about 8 young kids being molested first, but that is just me. Where were their rights when Jerry violated them?
For someone who cares so much about due process it's odd you fight it on here instead of somewhere valid. I mean if I actually felt so bad for him due process or trial, I sure as hell wouldn't argue with someone like me on this site. It's a pretty epic waste of time and think about all you could be doing for Jerry and the American way. Again this is about PSU and I get that for some of you, but I don't buy your arguing or fighting for justice on a free football message board. Even more so when it was the school that took most of the collateral damage due to that sick SOB. Notice nobody in the national media is crying foul for Jerry. I doubt they are in in PA or much of the northeast either. How can that be when this is so clear to the world how badly Jerry was railed. About 10 people on a PSU site are worrying about the tickle monster. Let's keep this in perspective.
For someone who cares so much about due process it's odd you fight it on here instead of somewhere valid. I mean if I actually felt so bad for him due process or trial, I sure as hell wouldn't argue with someone like me on this site. It's a pretty epic waste of time and think about all you could be doing for Jerry and the American way. Again this is about PSU and I get that for some of you, but I don't buy your arguing or fighting for justice on a free football message board. Even more so when it was the school that took most of the collateral damage due to that sick SOB. Notice nobody in the national media is crying foul for Jerry. I doubt they are in in PA or much of the northeast either. How can that be when this is so clear to the world how badly Jerry was railed. About 10 people on a PSU site are worrying about the tickle monster. Let's keep this in perspective.
The damage to Penn State resulted from the dishonest Grand Jury presentment regardless of Sandusky's guilt or innocence. It said, in effect, that McQueary told Paterno he had seen a man rape a boy, and neither Paterno nor anybody else took the matter beyond TSM. Had the 11/9 Board asked McQueary and Paterno what happened, it would have known otherwise. On the other hand, had the presentment reported what McQueary actually said in court, the reaction against Penn State would have been much less.
You're kidding yourself. The Joe had to know lines were coming regardless. Was that fair or right, not at all and I'm not arguing about that. Jerry is where he belongs and nobody outside of select few on this site are fighting for the convicted serial pedophile.
Had PSU had real GD leadership they would have told the media to go F themsleves along with the NCAA. They would have said this is a CRIMINAL matter of a retired employee. They would then let the courts and judicial system handle it. Your issue is with the BoT really, but the deflection to include any and everyone is just as poor as the leadership shown by the school.
No you didn't, you avoided and danced around my question numerous times. All you said was "Of course it's wrong for stuff to be leaked and it isn't the first nor the last time it has happened in a high profile case". That had NOTHING to do with my question. I didn't ask if it was wrong or if it was the first time it happened.
One more time. Would you be ok with the OAG's shenanigans if you were the person on trial? This is a hypothetical so it doesn't matter if you're worried or not if it could happen to you (nice excuse for avoiding the question though...). A very simple question which you still have yet to answer.
I'm not trying/expecting to change your opinion by arguing with you, I'm simply trying to draw attention to the hypocrisy of your stance on this matter. You're a hypocrite if you're ok with the shenanigans happening to JS but not to you. If you aren't ok with it happening to you then you shouldn't be ok with it happening to JS or anyone else, even if they are accused of horrific/upsetting crimes.
The OAG/Corbett/OG BOT are up to their eyeballs in this mess. I guess it never occurred to you that the JS trial was moved along a light speed rules of the court be damned to try and keep something MORE nefarious (such as financial malfeasance at TSM/PSU BOT, larger pedo ring, who knows...) from getting dug into by the press/masses and brought to light?? The JS trial was concluded in record time with all kinds of shenanigans happening and everyone was told it's done and let's move on. You're not curious at all why the OAG went to great lengths to paint this as a PSU issue (something which you have taken issue with) versus a JS/TSM/CYS issue?? Come on man use your brain a little here.
Last edited:
Yes, the illegal leak of the GJP to Ganim and possibly the 3/11 leak of GJ testimony to Ganim as well (but as you said if the 3/11 GJ info came from a witness it was legal--but we don't really know who her sources were).
Are you a serial pedophile concerned this may happen to you? Honest question, as I'm not worried about it happening to me and I'm not concerned that it happened to Jerry to be quite frank. I would hope that if I were as sick as that SOB was I would own up to it, but he won't do that. For some reason you are really bothered by this so much more so than what JS did to the children. Maybe that is ok in your world or around the people you are close to. In my world which differs from you apparently, JS is in jail and that is a good thing. I think about the kids being groped for no good reason, not what a OAG did to put that guy in jail. It would be one thing if he were a good guy or the case was a toss up. You yourself say that isn't the case, but for some reason want to go on and on and on about Jerry and how badly he was treated.
Thy only hypocrites on this site are the ones screaming for justice for Jerry because their school took a hit. It's as transparent and as hypocritical as it gets. Even more so when they do it on a football message board. I just hope people start reporting these threads more and the mods start to lock them up sooner or create you guys a free jerry board. How Tom let's this crap stand with his name out there is beyond me...he is one tolerant man.
If I were a betting person I would wager heavily that Ganim was "promised" first access to the GJP in exchange for her not reporting on the investigation too early. Even the 3/31 printing of her story had been delayed
how dare you, sir, impugn the stellar reputation of a Pulitzer Prize winner!
the GJP was not "leaked" to Ganim. It was "accidentally" posted to their online database for approx 15 min, during which time . . . using her plucky moxie and determined gumption . . . intrepid reporter Sara Ganim managed to download a copy
