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FC/OT: Pro Race Car Driver Scott Tucker sentenced to 16 years prison...

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For running a payday loan business scam (I don’t know what made his business any different than any other payday loan business). You don’t see this every day....not sure what kind of races he did but this says his business made him billions and affected more than 1% of the U.S. population - what a turd.

Scott Tucker sentenced to over 16 years in prison for exploiting struggling Americans - ESPN https://apple.news/AoyBSQizMRVibaBxN7pNLFw
 
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Turd, indeed. So many good people live paycheck to paycheck and for them every day is a struggle. F'n turd.

Yeah. I see a lot of this when I go home to Western PA. For a lot of working class families, one emergency expenditure can make getting by nearly impossible. I've had family members wrapped up in these payday loans and they're set up so you're not able to get out. 1000% interest? Unreal.
 
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He raced a Ferrari in a sportscar series. Not the kind of American racing I pictured when I first saw the headline.

This also isnt his first time going to prison for his business dealings. Seems like a nice guy.
 
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For running a payday loan business scam (I don’t know what made his business any different than any other payday loan business). You don’t see this every day....not sure what kind of races he did but this says his business made him billions and affected more than 1% of the U.S. population - what a turd.

Scott Tucker sentenced to over 16 years in prison for exploiting struggling Americans - ESPN https://apple.news/AoyBSQizMRVibaBxN7pNLFw
His Level 5 Motorsports team was very successful in sports car racing including the 24 Hours of Daytona and Le Mans
 
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Yeah. I see a lot of this when I go home to Western PA. For a lot of working class families, one emergency expenditure can make getting by nearly impossible. I've had family members wrapped up in these payday loans and they're set up so you're not able to get out. 1000% interest? Unreal.
Did you say 1000% interest?
 
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Yeah. I see a lot of this when I go home to Western PA. For a lot of working class families, one emergency expenditure can make getting by nearly impossible. I've had family members wrapped up in these payday loans and they're set up so you're not able to get out. 1000% interest? Unreal.
Hey, it’s the free market. Who needs regulations? o_O
 
Yeah. I see a lot of this when I go home to Western PA. For a lot of working class families, one emergency expenditure can make getting by nearly impossible. I've had family members wrapped up in these payday loans and they're set up so you're not able to get out. 1000% interest? Unreal.

This guy is going to jail likely because his loans were absolute crap. But 1000% interest in itself is not particularly bad depending on the terms.

If I have a payday advance... let's say $1000 for example.

I get my cash today and the business gets it in a week.

The business charges me $20 for that service. Just as an example.... but a reasonable one.

Over the year... on $1000 I will pay 52 (weeks) x $20 which is about $1000.

100% interest.

Now let's say, because I don't have a bank account I get my check cashed... as do many people.

$1000 check. I get the same $980 from the advance place. The advance place gets their check the next day.

Now the math gets fun...

The loan place is earning $20 on $1000 for 1 day. 365 (days) x $20 = $7300

700% interest

Personally, I would bet $20 would be low for a service like this. There is tremendous credit risk. Once bad check and you could use the equivalent of a year of payday advances.

My gym when I was in NJ... Retro Fitness, charged me $50 for a late fee on my $19.95 monthly dues (when my cc expired) even though I was walking into the gym each day.

By the time they sent a letter my fees were up to $100 (after a month they have the decency to send you a letter).

That's 500% in TWO MONTHS. Annualized that is 3000%.

Fees/Interest and percentages are not always cut and dry.

Collectors are some of the worst people. My daughters phone number is apparently from some guy who couldn't pay his bills. Even 2 years later she is getting harassing calls... and people saying she won the lottery.

LdN
 
This guy is going to jail likely because his loans were absolute crap. But 1000% interest in itself is not particularly bad depending on the terms.

If I have a payday advance... let's say $1000 for example.

I get my cash today and the business gets it in a week.

The business charges me $20 for that service. Just as an example.... but a reasonable one.

Over the year... on $1000 I will pay 52 (weeks) x $20 which is about $1000.

100% interest.

Now let's say, because I don't have a bank account I get my check cashed... as do many people.

$1000 check. I get the same $980 from the advance place. The advance place gets their check the next day.

Now the math gets fun...

The loan place is earning $20 on $1000 for 1 day. 365 (days) x $20 = $7300

700% interest

Personally, I would bet $20 would be low for a service like this. There is tremendous credit risk. Once bad check and you could use the equivalent of a year of payday advances.

My gym when I was in NJ... Retro Fitness, charged me $50 for a late fee on my $19.95 monthly dues (when my cc expired) even though I was walking into the gym each day.

By the time they sent a letter my fees were up to $100 (after a month they have the decency to send you a letter).

That's 500% in TWO MONTHS. Annualized that is 3000%.

Fees/Interest and percentages are not always cut and dry.

Collectors are some of the worst people. My daughters phone number is apparently from some guy who couldn't pay his bills. Even 2 years later she is getting harassing calls... and people saying she won the lottery.

LdN
What this guy ran was obviously a scam. But the short term payday loan business is essentially predatory in that it's targeting people who don't have enough to get by and charging them for it.
 
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What this guy ran was obviously a scam. But the short term payday loan business is essentially predatory in that it's targeting people who don't have enough to get by and charging them for it.

It is predatory... like Mega Millions.

The reason it is permitted is that without the legalized form of payday loans, the alternative is much worse.

So the rules and laws are established. We can have pay day loan businesses run by relatively unscrupulous persons who follow the laws, or we can have loan sharks.

In this case the person was not following the laws and therefore went to prison.

I'm not here to defend this business. I hate it. However I don't like numbers being thrown around without context as they are in that article.

LdN
 
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It is predatory... like Mega Millions.

The reason it is permitted is that without the legalized form of payday loans, the alternative is much worse.

So the rules and laws are established. We can have pay day loan businesses run by relatively unscrupulous persons who follow the laws, or we can have loan sharks.

In this case the person was not following the laws and therefore went to prison.

LdN

Most folks who need these loans can’t pay off a $1,000 payday loan in a week and the opportunity cost is tremendous. This, more loans, and the cycle repeats itself.

How about an alternative that has a reasonable loan rate, fair terms, and doesn’t gouge people? I don’t see how the ‘risk’ for these businesses is any higher with a 500-1000% interest rate versus something significantly more manageable.
 
Most folks who need these loans can’t pay off a $1,000 payday loan in a week and the opportunity cost is tremendous. This, more loans, and the cycle repeats itself.

How about an alternative that has a reasonable loan rate, fair terms, and doesn’t gouge people? I don’t see how the ‘risk’ for these businesses is any higher with a 500-1000% interest rate versus something significantly more manageable.

What do you consider fair terms?

I have a $1000 check I'd like an advance on. Here it is. What are you going to charge me to front me the money.

Your overhead is $5k a month in rent/electric. $3k a month in individuals. $2k a month legal cost.

On average 1 out of 100 checks is fake... actually let's just make that 1 out of 1000 checks is fake.

Give me your price in USD.

LdN
 
But the short term payday loan business is essentially predatory in that it's targeting people who don't have enough to get by and charging them for it.
maybe those who can’t afford payday loans shouldn’t use such services?
 
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There was a great article in Bloomberg (Dec 6) recently detailing how he got caugh. Essentially, a guy was getting harrased by shady bad-debt calls (of which he had none), and started to track down the source of how his info got out and traded on the market. Eventually he took his info to the feds.

www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-06/millions-are-hounded-for-debt-they-don-t-owe-one-victim-fought-back-with-a-vengeance

That article was a vert good read. The bad guys inadvertently pissed off the wrong person. Thanks for the link.
 
maybe those who can’t afford payday loans shouldn’t use such services?

Good idea. New York state has banned such services.

Having said that, people who 'need' payday loans typically can't get money anywhere else - bad credit, live paycheck to paycheck, etc. If those clients didn't exist, the industry wouldn't either (people with good credit can go to a bank and get better terms for a loan should they need one). It's not like a guy with awesome credit and a great job is likely to need an emergency $1,000 he couldn't get somewhere else or put on a credit card with much lower interest if need be.

Payday lenders should be subject to state usury laws and in many cases they aren't (for example, California).
 
What do you consider fair terms?

I have a $1000 check I'd like an advance on. Here it is. What are you going to charge me to front me the money.

Your overhead is $5k a month in rent/electric. $3k a month in individuals. $2k a month legal cost.

On average 1 out of 100 checks is fake... actually let's just make that 1 out of 1000 checks is fake.

Give me your price in USD.

LdN

Make it whatever you want (I'd have a lending cap at around $1,500, maybe require a refundable - if loan paid on time - 10% deposit upon lending, proof of employment, etc., set terms at 30% interest).

So, I need $500 for car repairs. I pay $50 for the $500 loan and $650 to pay it off in 30 days (get $50 back if loan paid on time, forfeit otherwise). Maybe incentivize payment plans or early settlement (less interest if paid in installments, on time, or earlier in general).

But, also make it so you can't give a person another loan without the first one being paid off. That would be key.
 
There was a great article in Bloomberg (Dec 6) recently detailing how he got caugh. Essentially, a guy was getting harrased by shady bad-debt calls (of which he had none), and started to track down the source of how his info got out and traded on the market. Eventually he took his info to the feds.

www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-12-06/millions-are-hounded-for-debt-they-don-t-owe-one-victim-fought-back-with-a-vengeance
Terrific article. Thanks for sharing it.
 
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