FC: Univ of Alabama wants to be on par with Cal, Mich, UVA academically...

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

About lowering the overhead cost as stated above, a lot of these suits are needed for satisfying state and federal regulations. Removing state regulations will reduce overhead while federal burdensome demands will remain.

I get very worked up about this. Penn State just got blasted for $2.4MM with a Cleary Act fine. So obviously the suits ain't getting the job done. Paying them their inflated salaries (and 40% benefit load) is bad enough; paying them for FAILURE is even worse.

Is it too much to at least make them WORK at their sinecures? Why is the Associate Dean for Cleary Act not swinging from a lamp post on College Avenue?

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

Whether or not the State adequately funds Penn State is an open question; it is incontrovertible that Penn State needs to cut the bloat in Old Main and force a lot of empty suits to go earn an honest living. They also need to take a damn hard look at the never-ending building binge when the entire model of a residential higher education is up for debate. The hallowed halls are full of six-figure overhead that contributes ZIP to the educational mission and are comfortably cossetted on the backs of the student body.

So, East Halls is going to get a much needed update as the dorms are straight out of the 60s. Evidently students still are seeking the R/I part of student life at Penn State and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. The other building binge...well, Steidle Building was recently complete revamped and will offer more space for materials science and chemistry at University Park which will drive enrollment and help to attract the top students. Penn State paid for this along with alumni, and industry partners. Burrowes was also upgraded in much the same way that Steidle was - not a new building. Again, attracting top students in the Liberal Arts to Penn State. Fenske is going to be nuked for a new Chemical Engineering and Biomedical Engineering building. Kinda hard to argue against those disciplines.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

So, East Halls is going to get a much needed update as the dorms are straight out of the 60s. Evidently students still are seeking the R/I part of student life at Penn State and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. The other building binge...well, Steidle Building was recently complete revamped and will offer more space for materials science and chemistry at University Park which will drive enrollment and help to attract the top students. Penn State paid for this along with alumni, and industry partners. Burrowes was also upgraded in much the same way that Steidle was - not a new building. Again, attracting top students in the Liberal Arts to Penn State. Fenske is going to be nuked for a new Chemical Engineering and Biomedical Engineering building. Kinda hard to argue against those disciplines.

OK, point taken. We bought a failing law school and then built a palace designed by I.M. Pei as our SECOND law school campus. There are already SEVEN law schools in Pennsylvania. Is Pennsylvania somehow under-lawered? Is there such overwhelming demand for lawyers that we have to go make more?

They took a boatload of cash and threw it up in the air to make shade out of it. All for empire building and ego gratification.

 

[slwlion]

When I was in Tuscaloosa for the game in 2010, one young man asked me "Penn State - is that in Pennsylvania?".

When I was in Lewisburg Pa, a man said to me "well piss on my boots".

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/06/education/edlife/survival-strategies-for-public-universities.html

SMDH.

Huh? Is this supposed to be something novel they just came up with? The concept of "Public Ivies" has been around for quite some time and is published annually by a book called "Greenes' Guide - The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities", originally published in 2001 by Howard and Matthew Greene:

Greenes' Guides

A book titled The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (2001) by Howard and Matthew Greene of Greenes' Guides included 30 colleges and universities. The table below is organized by region and colleges are listed in alphabetical order:
Northeastern

• Pennsylvania State University (University Park)
• Rutgers University (New Brunswick)
• State University of New York at Binghamton (also known as Binghamton University)
• University of Connecticut (Storrs)

Mid-Atlantic

• University of Delaware (Newark)
• University of Maryland (College Park)
• College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
• University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Southern

• University of Florida (Gainesville)
• University of Georgia (Athens)
• University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
• University of Texas at Austin

Western

• University of Arizona (Tucson)
• University of California, Berkeley
• University of California, Davis
• University of California, Irvine
• University of California, Los Angeles
• University of California, San Diego
• University of California, Santa Barbara
• University of Colorado Boulder
• University of Washington (Seattle)

Great Lakes & Midwest

• Indiana University (Bloomington)
• Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
• Michigan State University (East Lansing)
• The Ohio State University (Columbus)
• University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)
• University of Iowa (Iowa City)
• University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
• University of Minnesota (Minneapolis–Saint Paul)
• University of Wisconsin (Madison)

I don't see the University of Alabama listed on this acknowledged guide on the topic, so is the University of Alabama really trying to claim that they just realized that institutions of higher education (i.e., "Universities" - both private and public) actually compete academically to be "recognized" as a top institution regardless of whether they are Public or Private? Huh? Does this mean that they weren't trying to be a good academic institution in the past? I'm confused.....

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Huh? Is this supposed to be something novel they just came up with? The concept of "Public Ivies" has been around for quite some time and is published annually by a book called "Greenes' Guide - The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities", originally published in 2001 by Howard and Matthew Greene:

Greenes' Guides

A book titled The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (2001) by Howard and Matthew Greene of Greenes' Guides included 30 colleges and universities. The table below is organized by region and colleges are listed in alphabetical order:
Northeastern

• Pennsylvania State University (University Park)
• Rutgers University (New Brunswick)
• State University of New York at Binghamton (also known as Binghamton University)
• University of Connecticut (Storrs)

Mid-Atlantic

• University of Delaware (Newark)
• University of Maryland (College Park)
• College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
• University of Virginia (Charlottesville)

Southern

• University of Florida (Gainesville)
• University of Georgia (Athens)
• University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
• University of Texas at Austin

Western

• University of Arizona (Tucson)
• University of California, Berkeley
• University of California, Davis
• University of California, Irvine
• University of California, Los Angeles
• University of California, San Diego
• University of California, Santa Barbara
• University of Colorado Boulder
• University of Washington (Seattle)

Great Lakes & Midwest

• Indiana University (Bloomington)
• Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
• Michigan State University (East Lansing)
• The Ohio State University (Columbus)
• University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)
• University of Iowa (Iowa City)
• University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
• University of Minnesota (Minneapolis–Saint Paul)
• University of Wisconsin (Madison)

I don't see the University of Alabama listed on this acknowledged guide on the topic, so is the University of Alabama really trying to claim that they just realized that institutions of higher education (i.e., "Universities" - both private and public) actually compete academically to be "recognized" as a top institution regardless of whether they are Public or Private? Huh? Does this mean that they weren't trying to be a good academic institution in the past? I'm confused.....

Also noteworthy that every single B1G Public Institution, except UNL (Northwestern and Purdue are Private Institutions but widely recognized academically especially as "Research Institutions" like the Public Ivies), is listed in Greenes' Guide to The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (again, including all expansions over the last quarter century except for UNL). Note how few Public SEC schools are listed (only UGa and UFla make the list). Ditto the Public Institutions in the ACC and B12 (where only one Public Institution from each of these P5 Conferences make the lists....).

 

[Art]

Also noteworthy that every single B1G Public Institution, except UNL (Northwestern and Purdue are Private Institutions but widely recognized academically especially as "Research Institutions" like the Public Ivies), is listed in Greenes' Guide to The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (again, including all expansions over the last quarter century except for UNL). Note how few Public SEC schools are listed (only UGa and UFla make the list). Ditto the Public Institutions in the ACC and B12 (where only one Public Institution from each of these P5 Conferences make the lists....).

Uh, last time I checked Purdue was a state school.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Uh, last time I checked Purdue was a state school.

Purdue is Indiana's Land Grant school, not IU.

 

[Art]

Purdue is Indiana's Land Grant school, not IU.

I know that. Can't speak for Chewie.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Uh, last time I checked Purdue was a state school.

Okay, did not know that, but it has little bearing on the percentage of b1g Public Schools that are on Greenes' published "Public Ivies" lists (i.e., all but UNL and PurDon't I guess) relative to the percentage of Public Schools listed in other P5 Conferences (or any DIA "All Sport" Conferences for that matter really - i.e., even if you wish to include G5 Conferences).

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

When I was in Tuscaloosa for the game in 2010, one young man asked me "Penn State - is that in Pennsylvania?".

You probably could have told him that the school's real official name is The Pennsylvania State University and handed him a copy of the Official Seal below......and it still would probably not have registered with the "slack jaw" and gone directly over his head.....

 

[Art]

Okay, did not know that, but it has little bearing on the percentage of b1g Public Schools that are on Greenes' published "Public Ivies" lists (i.e., all but UNL and PurDon't I guess) relative to the percentage of Public Schools listed in other P5 Conferences (or any DIA "All Sport" Conferences for that matter really - i.e., even if you wish to include G5 Conferences).

Who cares about the Greenes' classifications other than you? Bet you also didn't know that they have a nice little business with it's bread buttered on both sides, hitting up the universities they "objectively" evaluate for consulting fees and upper-middle class families for an entire suite of college admissions counseling services.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Who cares about the Greenes' classifications other than you? Bet you also didn't know that they have a nice little business with it's bread buttered on both sides, hitting up the universities they "objectively" evaluate for consulting fees and upper-middle class families for an entire suite of college admissions counseling services.

Huh? The term "Public Ivies" is a subjective term - given that it was essentially coined and made into a "recognizable" distinction by "Greenes' College Guides", I guess that is the only reason to list the classifications, LMFAO! Nowhere did I say the distinction was not highly subjective, but given that use of the term "Public Ivy" was made popular by "Greenes' College Guides", I guess that would be a good place to start as to a reference manual on the topic.....so sorry to have offended your absurd sensibilities there 'Lil Oz by pointing out how the term even came into being....Again LMFAO!

 

[Art]

Huh? The term "Public Ivies" is a subjective term - given that it was essentially coined and made into a "recognizable" distinction by "Greenes' College Guides", I guess that is the only reason to list the classifications, LMFAO! Nowhere did I say the distinction was not highly subjective, but given that use of the term "Public Ivy" was made popular by "Greenes' College Guides", I guess that would be a good place to start as to a reference manual on the topic.....so sorry to have offended your absurd sensibilities there 'Lil Oz by pointing out how the term even came into being....Again LMFAO!

Nice try, dipstick. The term "Public Ivies" was coined by Richard Moll sixteen years before the Greenes' took over his work.

 

[BobPSU92]

Art vs. bushwood

I'm gonna need a lot of popcorn tonight.

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

Art vs. bushwood

I'm gonna need a lot of popcorn tonight.

I know, and they're both two of my favorite posters.

 

[BobPSU92]

I know, and they're both two of my favorite posters.

It's the Internet version of this:

 

[YorkLion]

You cannot mention academic success without also mentioning Sue Paterno.

 

[Art]

Art vs. bushwood

I'm gonna need a lot of popcorn tonight.

Not tonight boys. I'm gonna follow Bernard Shaw's advice about rasslin' with pigs.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

Nice try, dipstick. The term "Public Ivies" was coined by Richard Moll sixteen years before the Greenes' took over his work.

I understand the "took over" his original book of the identical title - that's why I

Seriously, after JVP addressed the BOT in 1983 with his challenge to them to build a great University each College created an Academic Advisory Board. Each Board consisted of Professors and Graduate Students and I was selected to the Engineering Board. We all came to first meeting wondering what it was about. Turns out that we were being challenged to turn Penn State into the number 1 school in the country. Well, after some lively debate we decided that the goal of number 1 was a bit much, but becoming a 2nd tier school seemed achievable and we used UVA and UMich as the example of tier 2 that we could attain. We realized that MIT and CalTech were not similar in that PSU was a very large land grand public institute and could never reach those levels across the board. But tier 2 could be achieved and we started making plans. I'm sure most realized the rapid ascent of the Penn States academic reputation from 1983 until November 2011. BOT Chairman Walter Conti took JVP's challenge seriously and put it in motion. What a difference from 2011.

This isn't really accurate - The Pennsylvania State University was listed in Richard Moll's original Guide titled: Public Ivys: A Guide to America's best public undergraduate colleges and universities (1985).

While JVP was always an advocate for the strengthening of the Academic-side of PSU (the "heart & sole" of any University) from the time he arrived on campus, it is not accurate imho to claim that his speech in 1983 was "transformative" or a catalyst for some type of "paradigm shift" -- PSU was ALREADY one of the most respected Large State-Sponsored Public Research Institutions in the nation.