If Mike saw a child being abused in the shower, then why not call police and then go to Joe if he felt it was necessary? Mike's actions are just as strange by your "sane" logic.
For those that followed the C/S/S trial closely, what was said by Curley or Schultz...
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If Mike saw a child being abused in the shower, then why not call police and then go to Joe if he felt it was necessary? Mike's actions are just as strange by your "sane" logic.
I think mikes answer was that he considered tim to be a very good man and a very solid citizen, just as tim had said about mike in his employee reports. Mike has no other reason to suspect tim wasn't a very good person till after this blew up. I do not know mikes opinion of tim this very moment.
As for all people in this mess. These folks have done there fair share of good in life. They have others, they have helped their communities, they have helped their employers. No one those involved, you me your neighbor are without faults and issues. Those accused and those who have confessed wrong doing are paying a price. Some who have not committed a criminal act are paying a price. All are to be forgiven even if that means you grit your teeth tobdi so. These are my beliefs. I am sure in the past six years in direct conversation I have cussed those accused and said ill things. To my knowledge I have never on a message board or in a tweet or else where publically called out, humiliated, or said mean hurtful things about the individuals involved. I believe it serves to purpose to constantly harass and shame a perso in fact it's hurtful and evil to do so in my opinion. This does not make me any better or any worse than anyone else. I can't cast a stone at a soul cause I do understand what I see in the mirror every day.
As for all people in this mess. These folks have done there fair share of good in life. They have others, they have helped their communities, they have helped their employers. No one those involved, you me your neighbor are without faults and issues. Those accused and those who have confessed wrong doing are paying a price. Some who have not committed a criminal act are paying a price. All are to be forgiven even if that means you grit your teeth tobdi so. These are my beliefs. I am sure in the past six years in direct conversation I have cussed those accused and said ill things. To my knowledge I have never on a message board or in a tweet or else where publically called out, humiliated, or said mean hurtful things about the individuals involved. I believe it serves to purpose to constantly harass and shame a perso in fact it's hurtful and evil to do so in my opinion. This does not make me any better or any worse than anyone else. I can't cast a stone at a soul cause I do understand what I see in the mirror every day.
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IMO, MM clearly saw (more likely heard) something that disturbed him. Either he was unable or unwilling to articulate what it was and as a result, an administrative report (to JVP) was the consensus decision that fateful night. The incident was treated as an administrative (not suspected criminal) report all the way up the ladder. Apparently on GS2 and TC deserved prosecution for this and not JM, MM, Dr. D and JR......or any other folks who had contemporaneous knowledge of the incident. Strange?
Btw, lots of real interesting back-and-forth on Twitter this morning on this topic. @Misder2 and @towny87.1 and Mark Hentz involved.
Seems as though they take for a fact that Harmon knew of '01. Game changer, imo.
Seems as though they take for a fact that Harmon knew of '01. Game changer, imo.
You are really stupid if you don't understand why they told JS no kids, showing you have an agenda.
And MM's testimony combined with what he has told the press has many inconsistencies all over the place, so again showing your bias.
I too think and continue to think Tim is a good man. However, you didn't answer my question. After (according to Mike) reporting the abuse of a child to Tim, no appropriate action was taken. Yet, years later Mike made that comment after learning Tim would be indicted. Clearly, at that time, Mike still felt Tim "was a good man." It would seem to me that Tim being indicted surprised and troubled Mike. Would Mike have been surprised if Tim was the type of person to conceal a report of child abuse?
Hard to imagine he didn't. His testimony that he did not ask Gary why the curiosity over the 98 report is a knee slapper. Harmon is on the list of people who have been protected behind The Commonwealth's guard all shield. It's pretty simple.....if the incident was related to Harmon, then a call to law enforcement was in fact made. There goes the whole ball of wax.
IMO, since Gricar isn't around, it is likely Harmon knew more than anyone why JS wasn't charged or indicated in 98. Perhaps that is why he was protected?
I agree with your take. Dukie, as he has done many times, criticized their treatment of the report, implying that it was strange and illogical not to bump it up to authorities as suspected criminal behavior. One can use his logic and characterize Mike's actions as strange and illogical if he did in fact see a crime. I don't buy that Mike couldn't articulate what he saw or heard. Even if he needed a few days to compose himself, he then could have called police or told someone, anyone, that he believed Jerry sexually assaulted a young boy.
I think somewhere in testimony info (jimmy w might help) there was a call made to tim saying you guys are in trouble what I. The he'll did you guys say. So yes I think mike was shocked dumb founded at what happened in 10/11.
In my opinion mike had no reason to question the top brass of his department and at the university itself when he was told we have done all we can. Lots of reasons for my thoughts and I am give if you disagree but it would take an hour conversation to hash that all out. In fact we have had six years of board postings and while something's have changed most opinions have not. I think I can say some opposing opinions have softened if I was trying to be fair.
In my opinion mike had no reason to question the top brass of his department and at the university itself when he was told we have done all we can. Lots of reasons for my thoughts and I am give if you disagree but it would take an hour conversation to hash that all out. In fact we have had six years of board postings and while something's have changed most opinions have not. I think I can say some opposing opinions have softened if I was trying to be fair.
I can say this again my opinion. Not o e of us would want to be in mikes shoes in 01 2010-2011-today. Hard to imagine six years no life, no future, stuck in the mud.
I know some of you will say but he's a millionaire. He is not mike has yet to receive a penny from his civil action.
I know some of you will say but he's a millionaire. He is not mike has yet to receive a penny from his civil action.
Yes, it was inappropriate behavior that the state gave their good housekeeping stamp of approval to and said was normal coach behavior.
If anyone knew details about 98 they would know the state condoned JS' inappropriate naked bear hug from behind showering behavior.
When a very similar incident is reported a few yrs later (this time with the child's ID unknown) its not surprising the admins wouldn't treat it as a 5 alarm fire. IMO the admins should be commended for actually taking the 2001 report outside of the school instead of just brushing it off as normal coach behavior as the state did in 98.
To play devil's advocate. He could have wanted face time with a legendary CFB coach, especially considering the recent job opening. So he goes and relays a vague story to Joe, not actually believing that he saw a crime.
To be clear, I don't envy Mike's position. However, IMO, there are innocent people who have seen their lives and legacy's destroyed as well.
I'm speculating here, but I think Tim and Gary would tell us that prison shoes don't feel too good.
So, MM was 99% sure JS raped a kid, reported this to TC/Schultz and when MM saw that JS was never arrested or questioned he was perfectly ok with this?
Since MM never filed a police report, revoking JS' guest privileges and informing the mandatory reporters at TSM was about all the admins could do from their end. Absolutely nothing was stopping MM from making a police report if he really was that certain a kid was raped. Apparently he wasn't sure enough about what he THOUGHT was happening that night to ever take that step or at least express some dissatisfaction to TC when he called a few days later to follow up with PSU's action plan. But nope, not one peep out of MM, JM, or Dr. D about the mass injustice of a suspected child rapist never getting formally questioned by LE until 10 yrs later. Hmmmm.
At any point during the last 5-6 years, and especially after Paterno passed away, Mike, the "star witness", could have made some kind of statement in support of Paterno and his handling of this situation, which I think would have gone a long way with regards to the public's perception. Mike deserves to be stuck in the mud, but he doesn't deserve that money.
Thats what the MM camp would have us believe. Apparently MM had more trepidation about rocking the boat then ensuring that his report of suspected child rape was followed up on correctly.
I am not on twitter. Misder if you read these boards I am happy to meet you at my business first to say hi. Second to just talk about things.
I see the twitter stuff going on. I am fairly approachable and I don't believe I am unreasonable. You claim they had mike and mike was manipulate you claim it seems on twitter that we are all in all being my family in on sonething. Glad to talk and glad to say that while you maybe informs on second mike doings you have not a clue as to my family or mike.
As I did earlier if I post say something wrong I try to correct it. I am I aware of mike or my family being manipulated.
I see the twitter stuff going on. I am fairly approachable and I don't believe I am unreasonable. You claim they had mike and mike was manipulate you claim it seems on twitter that we are all in all being my family in on sonething. Glad to talk and glad to say that while you maybe informs on second mike doings you have not a clue as to my family or mike.
As I did earlier if I post say something wrong I try to correct it. I am I aware of mike or my family being manipulated.
Well, as psudukie said "Some who have not committed a criminal act are paying a price."
I'm guessing it was a poster with a screen name of Howard Stern.
Marshal I understand that opinion. Tim and Gary under oath confesses to those crimes. I do not want to walk in anyone's shoes I have a hard time in my own. I can't reference tim and farts shoes cause I am not their family. I know tim well enough to say hi in person. Gary I have never met. Dr Spanier I numbed into the grocery store and simply said hi dr Spanier. i provide opinion most of the time and try hard to indicate that it is my opinion. If I mistake a fact I try hard to correct it.
I think if you go into trial records you will see nothing but high regard for coach.
Support of JVP would have been nice.......as recently as Saturday.
Dukie, Tim and Gary confessed to misdemeanors after 6 years of harassment by the OAG and the likelihood that they could not get an unbiased jury (backed by research). I, for one, don't think for one moment they conspired to "cover up" or meant harm to any child.
I certainly have no argument with you. You are more than a gentleman and I can respect and appreciate your position.
I believe MM stayed here had hi regard for JVP and didn't blame it on JVP. The press, as you would suspect, hardly reported it.
He also moved to Pittsburgh in August 2011...likely not a coincidence.
I'd love to ask Jonelle.....bet she isn't talking. Is there a judge in her family? LOL. Just like she told MM that clarifying his testimony (telling the truth) would hurt The Commonwealth's case.
Baldwin and Harmon were both treated with kid gloves by the OAG even though if anyone should have been charged with obstructing justice it should have been these two.
It is not a coincidence. If the state wanted to cement their fake narrative they needed these two to play ball.
And Tim and Gary would have never been in that position had Mike called police right away instead of going to Joe. If Mike indeed believed that he saw a crime that night, then he put Tim, Gary, and Joe in an incredibly difficult situation. The second Mike went to Joe first...this "report" became murky at best. IMO it's outrageous for any McQueary to lay this tragedy at the feet of Tim and Gary.
I've always thought he was the key and somehow just went off into the night. GaryS said he thought it was reported, but conceded it wasnt. I think the reason GS thought it was reported was he told Harmon to do so, and Harmon never did. I dont know GS, but through out this whole affair I have to wonder if he has early on set Alzheimer's, and in no way am I trying to be mean.
Not exactly. If I recall correctly the police took the results of the investigation to Gricar and wanted to bring charges but Gricar declined because he did not think the case was winnable. Just because a DA doesn't bring charges doesn't mean that the alleged perpetrator is innocent; it could just means that the DA does not think the case can be won at trial.
So what? He could have held a press conference and stated those things publicly, correct the false narrative and ask the media to lay off of Paterno. Has he ever done anything like that?
Perhaps he didn't think it could be won at trial b/c the state's own experts at CYS/DPW determined the incident to be "Unfounded" aka as if it never happened and they didn't even restrict his 1:1 access to kids!!
It would be hard to win a case against a pillar of the community offender when the first witness called by the defense would be the CYS case worker who said it was all no big deal, normal coach behavior....
Keep in mind, the state didn't need JS to be prosecuted by Gricar and convicted in court in order to keep PA kids safe. All DPW had to do was correctly determine the incident to be "Indicated" (which has a much lower threshold than getting a criminal conviction) which would have revoked JS' clearance to work with kids.
If JS was then convicted in court the determination would change to "Founded".
On why the Centre County DA did not press charges in 1998. While I hate to give the Freeh report any credence, the report does give a reason. Jerry was investigated by University Park police, State College Police, and a rep from the state DPW as well as some other agencies. The State DPW rep is quoted in a police report that there was no crime and that Jerry did not exhibit the characteristics of a pedophile. These conclusions tied the DA hands. If there is no crime (the conclusion of the 1998 investigation) there can be not charges.
Two strange things surround the 1998 investigation. 1. The DPW rep stated later he never saw the analysis by the psychologist who counseled the alleged victim. Reviewing the analysis may have changed his mind. 2. Originally this case was assigned to a asst. DA and then the DA took over personally with no good explanation of why he wanted the change. And of course the DA disappeared.
I remember when I first read the main body of the Freeh report, i came to the conclusion that the 1998 investigation was mishandled. I am not implying any cover up, but I am of the opinion that the parties to this investigation need training and a change of procedures in conducting these types of investigations.
In an ideal world these parties would meet in an non-confrontational environment to discuss what happened, what went wrong and how to correct. In the real world this will never happen. The children of PA will be the victims of not addressing this issue.
My major take-away from the Freed Report is the system is broke and needs fixing.
Two strange things surround the 1998 investigation. 1. The DPW rep stated later he never saw the analysis by the psychologist who counseled the alleged victim. Reviewing the analysis may have changed his mind. 2. Originally this case was assigned to a asst. DA and then the DA took over personally with no good explanation of why he wanted the change. And of course the DA disappeared.
I remember when I first read the main body of the Freeh report, i came to the conclusion that the 1998 investigation was mishandled. I am not implying any cover up, but I am of the opinion that the parties to this investigation need training and a change of procedures in conducting these types of investigations.
In an ideal world these parties would meet in an non-confrontational environment to discuss what happened, what went wrong and how to correct. In the real world this will never happen. The children of PA will be the victims of not addressing this issue.
My major take-away from the Freed Report is the system is broke and needs fixing.
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