Freestyle Rules Are Stupid
- Thread starter pawrestlersintn
- Start date
The NLWC guys are having a solid tournament 
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I'll play
If you get the first takedown, then you can shut things down and not wrestle. If you are setting rules to make a sport more exciting, you want to avoid those types of scenarios. Freestyle, before all the recent changes was often very unwatchable. It's just so much better now--and it's these small things that have made a difference, IMO.
I'll always love folk, but freestyle is very awesome, IMO. I still don't like how much subjectivity plays a role in certain exchanges--who "initiated" a 4 point attack is sometimes hard to tell, and yet it becomes an 8 point swing. Not sure how to solve that, though.
PS--here's a funny thought: he who scores first also, at the time, has scored last. Doesn't work the other way around, though.
If you get the first takedown, then you can shut things down and not wrestle. If you are setting rules to make a sport more exciting, you want to avoid those types of scenarios. Freestyle, before all the recent changes was often very unwatchable. It's just so much better now--and it's these small things that have made a difference, IMO.
I'll always love folk, but freestyle is very awesome, IMO. I still don't like how much subjectivity plays a role in certain exchanges--who "initiated" a 4 point attack is sometimes hard to tell, and yet it becomes an 8 point swing. Not sure how to solve that, though.
PS--here's a funny thought: he who scores first also, at the time, has scored last. Doesn't work the other way around, though.
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If you are winning by 2, and attempt to shut it down with less than 30 seconds to go, your opponent still has an opportunity to win by scoring last. It makes shutting it down riskier. Oftentimes, this creates more excitement than the end of folk matches. Wait, that rule doesn't suck. Who created this thread?
Hey! Why don’t you start your own thread if you want to discuss the Brunson move of folk style?!?
I love folkstyle. Folkstyle rewards wrestlers who are strong in all 3 positions. have really tried to get into freestyle to follow our guys that have graduated and are doing so well internationally but I find it borderline unwatchable. Things I specifically hate are pushouts, the shot clock, correct throws, and criteria. The shot clock is so arbitrary. What other sport decides a winner in regulation when the score is tied? If the score is tied that implies both competitors have been equally successful throughout the match. Why not sudden victory until one guy scores?
I have specifically forced myself to get into it, because a) PSU is going to have a lot of really good guys in it and b) our US team is going to be really, really good for a really long time.
I didn't see a single correct throw today. There may have been, but I didn't see them. But, I agree, they're silly.
The shot clock is arbitrary, but it also doesn't decide many bouts. It has had little effect on the wrestlers mindsets, as far as I can tell. Which might mean, why have it.
I am indifferent on criteria, but disagree on the wrestlers being equal, because they're tied. Four pushouts does not equal one four or five point throw. Last, biggest score may be an indicator of the guy who is better conditioned.
I didn't see a single correct throw today. There may have been, but I didn't see them. But, I agree, they're silly.
The shot clock is arbitrary, but it also doesn't decide many bouts. It has had little effect on the wrestlers mindsets, as far as I can tell. Which might mean, why have it.
I am indifferent on criteria, but disagree on the wrestlers being equal, because they're tied. Four pushouts does not equal one four or five point throw. Last, biggest score may be an indicator of the guy who is better conditioned.
I won't argue whether scoring first or last should be the criteria, but why have criteria determine the winner at all? I don't get why overtime is not an option. To me, that is what is stupid. I like freestyle, but the things I don't like about it are a single move (takedown/leg lace) can end a match in :30, no overtime, and the international repachage (sp?) rule... all make me prefer Folkstyle better. I could give a crap what the rest of the world does and prefers. I'm allowed to have an opinion and that doesn't make me stupid.
RBY had a correct throw in his match. (or he got a point for a flip with a guy on his back)
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/...estling-club-vs-daniel-shaharuddin-unattached
https://www.flowrestling.org/video/...estling-club-vs-daniel-shaharuddin-unattached
Naw, that was a SWEET 5 point move--feet over head w/ exposure.
I believe they got rid of that dumb "correct throw" rule a few years ago, if I'm not mistaken.
If you don't like the rules now, wait till you get a load of the rules interpretations in Kazahkstan.
Bad rules free:
How passivity is called
Criteria
Correct throw (gone?)
Bad rules folk:
Hands to the face
How stalling is called
Reversal only two points
Riding time
30 second rideouts
Carrying your opponent oob
No celebrating
I love watching either style, but freestyle often times has more action and we get to see more athleticism.
How passivity is called
Criteria
Correct throw (gone?)
Bad rules folk:
Hands to the face
How stalling is called
Reversal only two points
Riding time
30 second rideouts
Carrying your opponent oob
No celebrating
I love watching either style, but freestyle often times has more action and we get to see more athleticism.
The criteria rule does have one major benefit: there are no ties after regulation -- and therefore, it provides an incentive against both guys coasting into OT. Which we see far too often in folk.
The freestyle rule I can't stand is exposure -- specifically, the lack of the folkstyle 4- or 5-count for extended exposure. I'm OK with exposure points, IMO it allows more action. But if the opponent barely wriggles off his back, that should score more than the instantaneous 89 deg exposure of an ankle lace.
The freestyle rule I can't stand is exposure -- specifically, the lack of the folkstyle 4- or 5-count for extended exposure. I'm OK with exposure points, IMO it allows more action. But if the opponent barely wriggles off his back, that should score more than the instantaneous 89 deg exposure of an ankle lace.
Please try to stay on topic, Roar.The NLWC guys are having a solid tournament
I'm not a fan of the correct throw. If a throw is done correctly, it will result in exposure and points.
Most of the other rules I'm ok with. Just like folkstyle, most of my issues come with the consistancy of the application of the rules. I'm also noticing a similar trend to folkstyle where bad calls are not being reversed.
All in all , its wrestling and I'll take it.
Most of the other rules I'm ok with. Just like folkstyle, most of my issues come with the consistancy of the application of the rules. I'm also noticing a similar trend to folkstyle where bad calls are not being reversed.
All in all , its wrestling and I'll take it.
I'm ambivalent about exposure points.
I prefer folk's emphasis on CONTROL, which is why I hate the new-ish "snapshot" takedown rules in college wrestling.
So, I'd say you're absolutely right. Control needs to be reflected in freestyle's exposure rules.
Great point about criterea.
While theoretically I agree with you, I feel like pivoting to a “control” model might be pulling a thread on the sweater. Free is as good as its ever been. I’m in the super minority that loves both styles and wants them both to be the best version of themselves.
Yeah, that is a good point on criteria. I guess the only time I have an issue with criteria is when a match is decided within the last few seconds due to it. I mean if there is 30 seconds left and the losing wrestler can't get the job done, so be it. However, when there is a pushout with 3 seconds left to tie it and lead on criteria it sucks imo.
Criteria is amazing. Have you ever seen ride outs? Can’t fathom anyone wanting to see rideouts over criteria.
Let's not call them rideouts -- that gives them an air of legitimacy that they don't deserve.
Let's call them what they are: stallouts.
if it was easy to ride someone out for 30 seconds you would see more of it...most folks are not ridden. I do like folkstyle as it is an art to 'control' someone. Not too many people can do it... or not too many people are 'ridden'. Would I like to see more 'wrestling' than he/she who scored last determines... absolutely. But, I'm ok with that criteria as well as everyone knows the rules (and can adapt to them).
It's not often I get to agree on this board. It's like Rhythm Gymnastics meets Sumo.
You can't just read the threads that look like you might like them, and think you understand what goes on here.
NF points are virtually never scored during those periods.
Why? Because top doesn't even try. Because those periods aren't about top scoring, they're about top preventing bottom from scoring. Which is the definition of top stalling.
The bottom guy has the opportunity to escape. If he doesn't credit to the top guy for maintaining control.
Maintaining control = not trying to score = stalling.
It's everything we hated about Tony Nelson.
This. In fact, by the time it gets to “stall-outs” the rules are even different than the rest of the match. It is against everything we want wrestling to be which is about scoring points and trying to get pins.
It is also the inherent problem with overtime. Freestyle has already found this out. If you have overtime you either have to do 1 of 2 things:
1. Make the OT unlimited until someone scores; or
2. Change the rules so that some type of criteria ends up determining the winner - ex: riding time in college, freestyle used to do the clinches, etc.
Freestyle determined this was silly, so they decided to just let the wrestlers settle it on the mat with actual wrestling in regulation. I cannot think of anything that would be better.
Simple answer. Score first so the opponent can't ride you out.
You aren't wrong, but that's from a wrestler's perspective, not a rule-maker's. It doesn't make it fun to watch.
Agree about control.
I HATE that you can score exposure points from neutral without any control.
Every stall-out match that isn't 0-0 after the various overtimes, had someone score first.
Maybe that answer isn't so simple.
I am warming to it, but...
I hate criteria, someone give me a good argument against sudden death/victory.
I would like to see one/move sequence limited to 6 points. A good deep lace or gut should not end the match simply by mimicing a crocodile
Proper throw has to go
I hate criteria, someone give me a good argument against sudden death/victory.
I would like to see one/move sequence limited to 6 points. A good deep lace or gut should not end the match simply by mimicing a crocodile
Proper throw has to go
It's a combat sport. Rolling around without control or some form of domination doesn't decide anything in real combat. And don't get me started on the leglace. That's gimmicky to me It's like something you'd do to your little brother. What the hell is that?
