FSU academic reputation has skyrocketed since Eric Barron left

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Maybe we can trade presidents with them and throw in a backup QB?

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/n...d-report-best-colleges-2020-guide/2236595001/


Florida State University has eclipsed its goal of becoming one of the country’s coveted Top 25 public institutions, landing No. 18 in U.S. News and World Report’s “Best Colleges 2020” guidebook.

The much-anticipated rankings were released at 12:01 a.m. Monday.

Last year, FSU moved up seven spots to No. 26. This year’s jump is the greatest single-year increase in university history.

The No. 18 post means FSU has climbed 25 spots under the leadership of FSU President John Thrasher and Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs Sally McRorie, since placing No. 43 in 2016.

Ironically, FSU shares the No. 18 public college ranking with Penn State – headed by Thrasher’s predecessor, Eric Barron – and Purdue University-West Lafayette and the University of Pittsburgh.

Since 2014, no other institution ranked in the Top 50 has jumped more spots than Florida State.

The U.S. News ranking also places FSU 57th among all national universities, public and private. That’s an increase from 70th last year.

FSU ties at 57th with the University of Miami, a private institution; Penn State, Purdue and the University of Pittsburgh.

Thrasher said he was beginning a staff meeting Tuesday morning when McRorie came in and delivered the news.

“I was blown away that we moved up that much,” Thrasher said in an interview with the Democrat. “I thought we’d move up some, one, two or three points, I didn’t know. But to be 18th and to be tied with Penn State, Purdue, and the other Top 20 universities, Michigan, Florida, we couldn’t be happier.”

“

 

[Media Fan]

Maybe we can trade presidents with them and throw in a backup QB?

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/n...d-report-best-colleges-2020-guide/2236595001/


Florida State University has eclipsed its goal of becoming one of the country’s coveted Top 25 public institutions, landing No. 18 in U.S. News and World Report’s “Best Colleges 2020” guidebook.

The much-anticipated rankings were released at 12:01 a.m. Monday.

Last year, FSU moved up seven spots to No. 26. This year’s jump is the greatest single-year increase in university history.

The No. 18 post means FSU has climbed 25 spots under the leadership of FSU President John Thrasher and Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs Sally McRorie, since placing No. 43 in 2016.

Ironically, FSU shares the No. 18 public college ranking with Penn State – headed by Thrasher’s predecessor, Eric Barron – and Purdue University-West Lafayette and the University of Pittsburgh.

Since 2014, no other institution ranked in the Top 50 has jumped more spots than Florida State.

The U.S. News ranking also places FSU 57th among all national universities, public and private. That’s an increase from 70th last year.

FSU ties at 57th with the University of Miami, a private institution; Penn State, Purdue and the University of Pittsburgh.

Thrasher said he was beginning a staff meeting Tuesday morning when McRorie came in and delivered the news.

“I was blown away that we moved up that much,” Thrasher said in an interview with the Democrat. “I thought we’d move up some, one, two or three points, I didn’t know. But to be 18th and to be tied with Penn State, Purdue, and the other Top 20 universities, Michigan, Florida, we couldn’t be happier.”

“

That is really telling. At this rate, not long before FSU moves past.
The two oldest big Fla universities are becoming better and better. Don’t know where the Univ of Fla. is ranked, but I always considered that a very good school.
I believe Central Fla. has the largest student population,on one campus, of any univ in the country.
Afraid PSU leadership will do nothing to improve it’s competitive position. And if was all about the cost — which imo is a big deal — how come Pitt entering freshmen now has a better academic profile . It is clear what would happen in the private sector— if a company’s performance was this putrid.

 

[Nitwit]

The article reports the following about Penn State. I wasn’t aware of this:

At Pennsylvania State University--University Park, 45 percent of full-time undergraduates receive some kind of need-based financial aid, and the average need-based scholarship or grant award is $6,630.

It doesn’t say who the aid is from but it does imply PSU is more affordable for many of its students than some on this Board have implied.

 

[Art]

The article reports the following about Penn State. I wasn’t aware of this:

At Pennsylvania State University--University Park, 45 percent of full-time undergraduates receive some kind of need-based financial aid, and the average need-based scholarship or grant award is $6,630.

It doesn’t say who the aid is from but it does imply PSU is more affordable for many of its students than some on this Board have implied.

That does not mean that 45% of full-time undergrads get need-based financial aid in the form of grants and scholarships. Could very well be that large numbers only receive need-based loans. It does not give a percentage of those receiving grants.

 

[WPB_lion]

Maybe we can trade presidents with them and throw in a backup QB?

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/n...d-report-best-colleges-2020-guide/2236595001/


Florida State University has eclipsed its goal of becoming one of the country’s coveted Top 25 public institutions, landing No. 18 in U.S. News and World Report’s “Best Colleges 2020” guidebook.

The much-anticipated rankings were released at 12:01 a.m. Monday.

Last year, FSU moved up seven spots to No. 26. This year’s jump is the greatest single-year increase in university history.

The No. 18 post means FSU has climbed 25 spots under the leadership of FSU President John Thrasher and Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs Sally McRorie, since placing No. 43 in 2016.

Ironically, FSU shares the No. 18 public college ranking with Penn State – headed by Thrasher’s predecessor, Eric Barron – and Purdue University-West Lafayette and the University of Pittsburgh.

Since 2014, no other institution ranked in the Top 50 has jumped more spots than Florida State.

The U.S. News ranking also places FSU 57th among all national universities, public and private. That’s an increase from 70th last year.

FSU ties at 57th with the University of Miami, a private institution; Penn State, Purdue and the University of Pittsburgh.

Thrasher said he was beginning a staff meeting Tuesday morning when McRorie came in and delivered the news.

“I was blown away that we moved up that much,” Thrasher said in an interview with the Democrat. “I thought we’d move up some, one, two or three points, I didn’t know. But to be 18th and to be tied with Penn State, Purdue, and the other Top 20 universities, Michigan, Florida, we couldn’t be happier.”

“

The Sandusky scandal has had ramifications beyond the football program. Comparing FSU's rise to PSU's decline in academic standing since 2011 is certainly not comparing apples to apples.

 

[Art]

The Sandusky scandal has had ramifications beyond the football program. Comparing FSU's rise to PSU's decline in academic standing since 2011 is certainly not comparing apples to apples.

Can you point to a specific area of academic decline that is the direct result of Sandusky? The hiring of Eric Barron doesn't count.

 

[rico18]

It’s called population growth. 4000 people moving to Florida every day.

 

[Art]

It’s called population growth. 4000 people moving to Florida every day.

That's nearly 1.5mm a year. Don't think it's growing that fast.

 

[WPB_lion]

Can you point to a specific area of academic decline that is the direct result of Sandusky? The hiring of Eric Barron doesn't count.

I do not have any statistics to back up my statement about the effect of the Sandusky scandal. However, I do know that the rankings are in part based on peer review, student selectivity, average alumni giving rate, etc. I am making an educated guess that the Sandusky scandal has had a negative effect in all of the foregoing areas and possibly other areas as well. Certainly, Barron has had to deal with issues in the foregoing areas that other presidents are not dealing with which has an affect on how effective he can actually be.

As a specific example, I point to the alumni giving rate. How many people have you seen on this board who have stated that they will no longer give a dime to the school. In the absence of the Sandusky scandal, it is obvious to me that the alumni giving rate for the University would be much better.

 

[Nitwit]

That's nearly 1.5mm a year. Don't think it's growing that fast.

It’s more like 800 people per day. The population is a little over 20 million, third most populous behind Ca and Tx. Some of the growth is a higher birth rate and some due to retirees moving to the sunbelt.

 

[katchthis]

I do not have any statistics to back up my statement about the effect of the Sandusky scandal. However, I do know that the rankings are in part based on peer review, student selectivity, average alumni giving rate, etc. I am making an educated guess that the Sandusky scandal has had a negative effect in all of the foregoing areas and possibly other areas as well. Certainly, Barron has had to deal with issues in the foregoing areas that other presidents are not dealing with which has an affect on how effective he can actually be.

As a specific example, I point to the alumni giving rate. How many people have you seen on this board who have stated that they will no longer give a dime to the school. In the absence of the Sandusky scandal, it is obvious to me that the alumni giving rate for the University would be much better.

Looking at perception of Sandusky Scandal, and the current effect --WSJ does the annual grid of shame for football, with success on one axis and integrity on the other. In 2019, PSU was barely into the negative integrity zone. And about 70% of the way positive on the on the field success zone. MSU, USC and other programs way down on the integrity scale. At least according to this vague metric we are improving. ( Sorry , I can't link this years article, WSJ has this subscription thing, that blocks using a link )

 

[Media Fan]

The article reports the following about Penn State. I wasn’t aware of this:

At Pennsylvania State University--University Park, 45 percent of full-time undergraduates receive some kind of need-based financial aid, and the average need-based scholarship or grant award is $6,630.

It doesn’t say who the aid is from but it does imply PSU is more affordable for many of its students than some on this Board have implied.

Do you have data showing how that compares with peers? My impression has been that PSU is comparatively low in student aid.

 

[Media Fan]

Is there any data on the academic qualifications of in-state versus out-of-state enrollees (sp) ? I believe the school has increased the size of its freshman class @ university park, while also increasing the % of out of state students.

IMO, it would be quite something if the school is taking more, lower quality students from out of state FOR THE MONEY. An incredible insult to in state applicants IF true.

 

[katchthis]

Do you have data showing how that compares with peers? My impression has been that PSU is comparatively low in student aid.

Well Pitt is finally #1 at something . Worst financial aid packages. PSU not far behind at #6 according to the Princeton review. PSU is a tough place to get merit based aid too. If you can get in Schreyer Honors that's about 5k. A few scholarships outside of that, but very competitive. On a positive note, first time PSU offered two year Master's or 3 year PhD scholarships to the top 25 Senior ME students out of 450, if they choose to attend PSU. About 24 or 25k per year, plus 5k spending money, That's pretty cool, and easy on this dad as my daughter got one ! She'll be starting her PhD Fall 2020.

https://www.princetonreview.com/college/penn-state-university-park-1023997?ceid=best-colleges

 

[Nitwit]

Do you have data showing how that compares with peers? My impression has been that PSU is comparatively low in student aid.

I believe the average among our peers (RU, MD, MSU for example) is higher than Penn State and up in the 50% plus range, but I’m not sure of the amount of aid in each case. I’m guessing the amount per student is probably higher.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[BobPSU92]

F*ck us.

 

[rico18]

That's nearly 1.5mm a year. Don't think it's growing that fast.

Ok, I stand corrected. 4000 people moving in and 3000 moving out. So, 800-1000/day makes more sense. I’m in construction and all I can tell you is that a lot of people are moving to Florida. Florida university has now become elite, Florida State has now become same as PSU, and UCF is making moves. The state of Florida also has some of the best tuition rates in the country if you stay in state, so many students aren’t leaving. I would love my kids to go to PSU, but realistically, it makes more sense to stay in State.

 

[Art]

Ok, I stand corrected. 4000 people moving in and 3000 moving out. So, 800-1000/day makes more sense. I’m in construction and all I can tell you is that a lot of people are moving to Florida. Florida university has now become elite, Florida State has now become same as PSU, and UCF is making moves. The state of Florida also has some of the best tuition rates in the country if you stay in state, so many students aren’t leaving. I would love my kids to go to PSU, but realistically, it makes more sense to stay in State.

You must have a liberal definition of "elite" if University of Florida makes it. I might say very good to excellent, but it has a way to go to be elite.

 

[rico18]

You must have a liberal definition of "elite" if University of Florida makes it. I might say very good to excellent, but it has a way to go to be elite.

Ok, I forgot, maybe great to good. James Franklin has messed me up with this whole elite thing.

 

[ApexLion]

Maybe we can trade presidents with them and throw in a backup QB?

https://www.tallahassee.com/story/n...d-report-best-colleges-2020-guide/2236595001/


Florida State University has eclipsed its goal of becoming one of the country’s coveted Top 25 public institutions, landing No. 18 in U.S. News and World Report’s “Best Colleges 2020” guidebook.

The much-anticipated rankings were released at 12:01 a.m. Monday.

Last year, FSU moved up seven spots to No. 26. This year’s jump is the greatest single-year increase in university history.

The No. 18 post means FSU has climbed 25 spots under the leadership of FSU President John Thrasher and Provost and Executive Vice President for Academic Affairs Sally McRorie, since placing No. 43 in 2016.

Ironically, FSU shares the No. 18 public college ranking with Penn State – headed by Thrasher’s predecessor, Eric Barron – and Purdue University-West Lafayette and the University of Pittsburgh.

Since 2014, no other institution ranked in the Top 50 has jumped more spots than Florida State.

The U.S. News ranking also places FSU 57th among all national universities, public and private. That’s an increase from 70th last year.

FSU ties at 57th with the University of Miami, a private institution; Penn State, Purdue and the University of Pittsburgh.

Thrasher said he was beginning a staff meeting Tuesday morning when McRorie came in and delivered the news.

“I was blown away that we moved up that much,” Thrasher said in an interview with the Democrat. “I thought we’d move up some, one, two or three points, I didn’t know. But to be 18th and to be tied with Penn State, Purdue, and the other Top 20 universities, Michigan, Florida, we couldn’t be happier.”

“

My daughter was recruited by FSU for...pre-med. Unlike PSU, the cost is reasonable and they are attracting better students. It’s not that complicated.

 

[California_Lion]

Maybe it's not just Penn State leadership, but the leadership in Harrisburg as well. Illinois has negative population growth, yet their school has maintained their ranking and status. Michigan's population growth is somehow double ours. When Barron came to PSU, he specifically stated that PSU was becoming too elitist.

My son is a senior in HS this year. It pains me to say this, but he's not applying to PSU. Penn State's average SAT is 1247. Illinois is 1420. UMich is 1415.

My son took the ACT and scored a 35...PSU isn't even in his top 30.

PSU needs to increase its admission standards; otherwise, it'll stay a second rate school. I would argue before Barron, we were a tier 1 school No more.

 

[ApexLion]

That does not mean that 45% of full-time undergrads get need-based financial aid in the form of grants and scholarships. Could very well be that large numbers only receive need-based loans. It does not give a percentage of those receiving grants.

That is available at the nces college finder. PSU can be conservatively classified as poor.

 

[Art]

Ok, I forgot, maybe great to good. James Franklin has messed me up with this whole elite thing.

Actually, UF was getting there and then the state decided to cut/slow the growth of funding. Result was predictable.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

The Sandusky scandal has had ramifications beyond the football program. Comparing FSU's rise to PSU's decline in academic standing since 2011 is certainly not comparing apples to apples.

i don't think it was the scandal, necessarily. PSU's ranking actually went up the year after the scandal, into the top 40. It fell after Erickson left. Really Barron owns it.

Edit: I do not think the Board's attempt to hire the crook from SUNY helped whatsoever. I think you can trace the decline to that. Everyone knows that Barron was the second choice to an unknown who ended up being a crook.

 

[psu00]

Barron leaves Florida State for Penn State. Florida State’s ranking increases while Penn State’s decreases. Wonder if Barron will be challenged on this at the next BoT meeting.

 

[Art]

Barron leaves Florida State for Penn State. Florida State’s ranking increases while Penn State’s decreases. Wonder if Barron will be challenged on this at the next BoT meeting.

The only challenge Barron faces at BoT meetings is getting to the buffet in time.

 

[Sproul]

Can you point to a specific area of academic decline that is the direct result of Sandusky? The hiring of Eric Barron doesn't count.

Application fee was waived for several years. IIRC average sat score of accepted students took a nose dive during that time.

 

[rico18]

i don't think it was the scandal, necessarily. PSU's ranking actually went up the year after the scandal, into the top 40. It fell after Erickson left. Really Barron owns it.

Edit: I do not think the Board's attempt to hire the crook from SUNY helped whatsoever. I think you can trace the decline to that. Everyone knows that Barron was the second choice to an unknown who ended up being a crook.

The year after the scandal, we were ranked 37th, but it was baked in before the scandal happened.

 

[ApexLion]

The "Scandal"?

VAV The Academic Freefall?

The "Scandal" - at this point - doesn't amount to a pimple on an elephant's ass relative to the impact of:

Costs
and
The Shifting of Spending away from Academics and into Administration (and Fraud)


Not even in the same area code.

Correct. Pigs at the trough.

 

[Art]

Application fee was waived for several years. IIRC average sat score of accepted students took a nose dive during that time.

Believe they were only waived for certain select zipcodes.

Scores have declined. Not sure how that's attributable to Sandusky.

 

[Nitwit]

LOL

That's Federal LOANS (almost entirely). And it is high - of course - because PSU has the HIGHEST tuition - - - - which is part of the formula for qualifying for loans (and going into debt, while PSU reaps in the $$$)

You damn twit.

So, which is it:

You're so incredibly stupid that you don't know that?

Or you are (still) such an incredible boot-licking toady that you're still making up that propaganda out of whole cloth, and spewing it like a drunk chick on prom night?

I just quoted the article Barry. You must be off your meds again.

 

[Nitwit]

Read what I wrote and read what you wrote, and tell me whose the stupid one. You really need psychiatric help.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Barron leaves Florida State for Penn State. Florida State’s ranking increases while Penn State’s decreases. Wonder if Barron will be challenged on this at the next BoT meeting.

No chance in Hades

 

[WPB_lion]

Believe they were only waived for certain select zipcodes.

Scores have declined. Not sure how that's attributable to Sandusky.

Really? What other major negative event happened at PSU circa 2011 that you attribute the nosedive to? I know that I am aware of at least one top student who grew up loving PSU his entire life only to chose Wisconsin over PSU in 2012 as a result of the scandal. Top students who were normally going to PSU were not choosing PSU as a result of the stink from the scandal. While it is difficult to provide direct evidence to the masses, the circumstantial evidence is strong.

 

[WPB_lion]

BUT:

The further removed PSU gets from the epicenter of the "Sandusky Scandal", the MORE Penn State's Academic Status plummets.

Making a tie between "Sandusky : University Status", at this point, would only make sense if you felt the Sandusky Scandal was a BENEFIT to PSU, and that the benefit was fading over time.

Unless THAT is the contention, one cannot even think to attribute PSU's academic standing to "Sandusky".


Right?

That is not necessarily true. It may be that the scandal triggered a downward trajectory and damaged the University in ways that take a few years to fully realize. The hit that the University's reputation took as a result of the scandal definitely has a negative impact on some of the factors that are used to measure academic standing. The scandal is still the first thing many people think of when you say Penn State.

 

[WPB_lion]

"Reputation"?

I'm talking about tangible facts (perhaps you are not... which is fine.... but, if that be the case, we shouldn't even be talking - because we are discussing different topics).
FWIW: Most certainly "Sandusky", and the management of "Sandusky" certainly damaged the reputation of the University. I can't imagine anyone would argue the obverse.

But tangible measures do not accelerate their decline as one moves FURTHER from the ignition point of the cause.
Logic (and physics ) tell us that.
So, if the reaction be intensifying, the ignition point(s) - whatever it(they) may be - is current.... not further in the rear view.

Reputation has an impact on tangible measures. You cannot attract top students and faculty or convince people to hire PSU grads if they do not respect PSU because of the scandal.

 

[Art]

Really? What other major negative event happened at PSU circa 2011 that you attribute the nosedive to? I know that I am aware of at least one top student who grew up loving PSU his entire life only to chose Wisconsin over PSU in 2012 as a result of the scandal. Top students who were normally going to PSU were not choosing PSU as a result of the stink from the scandal. While it is difficult to provide direct evidence to the masses, the circumstantial evidence is strong.

Do you know the difference between coincidental and causal? Probably not.

 

[Media Fan]

Ok, I stand corrected. 4000 people moving in and 3000 moving out. So, 800-1000/day makes more sense. I’m in construction and all I can tell you is that a lot of people are moving to Florida. Florida university has now become elite, Florida State has now become same as PSU, and UCF is making moves. The state of Florida also has some of the best tuition rates in the country if you stay in state, so many students aren’t leaving. I would love my kids to go to PSU, but realistically, it makes more sense to stay in State.

I believe Pa. is at the bottom of state funding for state universities. University of Vermont used to also be ridiculously expensive— don’t know about now.
Southern states in general, I believe , give much more to their universities.

I believe that I saw an estimate that 6 million more would move to Fla. , over something like the next decade. It and Texas quite popular for sure. By the way, I believe the big Texas universities are a much better financial deal as well.

 

[Media Fan]

You've been on this Board for how long? And you don't know the answers to those questions?

Do not. Would love to be educated. Please excuse my stupidity.