Geograpgy and PSU recruiting

[goethe14]

Sorry if this has been addressed on the board before. Obviously, PA is considered the crown jewel by most for high school wrestling. As I look to the future; I see a starting lineup with basically no PA wrestlers. I know this is a good thing on one hand but does anyone see any problems with the state school in the premier wrestling state with very little home-grown wrestlers? I'm not saying it's a bad thing just looking for opinions from the more knowledgeable posters.

 

[backdrft76]

Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but I think it's a very interesting topic you bring up here, and I think it's interesteing that Kemmerer, Lee and Teasdale picked Iowa (Keep your heads up Iowa fans!!!), Maruca and Shields went to ASU, just to name a few, and yet PSU is still pulling all of these out of staters.

 

[PSUcup1]

I'll admit that I'm a bit concerned over it as you never want to lose/alienate your core recruiting area. Not saying that has happened , but that's it's possible when you are bringing in guys from all other areas.

So short term it's a non issue, however long term it may become an issue

 

[matter7172]

The tableau has changed. Recruiting is a national thing now. It also seems kids are liking to branch out geographically at the moment. But Penn State is now a very desired location no matter the home state of a wrestler. I also don't think it's a long term situation and we could see more PA kids down the line.

I look at it like any college really. You want to be a national university, not just a local one. You pull in better students if your geographic scope is larger. Same for wrestling.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Sorry if this has been addressed on the board before. Obviously, PA is considered the crown jewel by most for high school wrestling. As I look to the future; I see a starting lineup with basically no PA wrestlers. I know this is a good thing on one hand but does anyone see any problems with the state school in the premier wrestling state with very little home-grown wrestlers? I'm not saying it's a bad thing just looking for opinions from the more knowledgeable posters.

Will be interesting to see how successful PA blue chip recruits that go out of state are gong forward. In the past there have been many that had great success. See Jordan Oliver, etc. Recently several PA recruits that Cael missed out (to a lot of hand wringing here) have not been that successful. See Marstellar and Haines. Cael and staff have earned the luxury to only recruit those kids that are not only great wrestlers but great students and great people.

 

[kingslayer_85]

Have always rooted for the PA kids at NCAA's (particularly D3). My own preference is to see PA guys in the lineup

 

[royboy]

The tableau has changed. Recruiting is a national thing now. It also seems kids are liking to branch out geographically at the moment. But Penn State is now a very desired location no matter the home state of a wrestler. I also don't think it's a long term situation and we could see more PA kids down the line.

I look at it like any college really. You want to be a national university, not just a local one. You pull in better students if your geographic scope is larger. Same for wrestling.

Yeah, makes sense. The downside, if there is one, is that some recruits from far-flung places come in, and realize they don't like being that far away from home and leave, causing some disruption in the lineup plans. But no evidence of that happening.

I've got a feeling PA will remain an important source of future wrestlers for PSU.

 

[LemonPie]

It's great. John Doe won't throw a fit when wrestlers like Cutch don't make the lineup.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Sorry if this has been addressed on the board before. Obviously, PA is considered the crown jewel by most for high school wrestling. As I look to the future; I see a starting lineup with basically no PA wrestlers. I know this is a good thing on one hand but does anyone see any problems with the state school in the premier wrestling state with very little home-grown wrestlers? I'm not saying it's a bad thing just looking for opinions from the more knowledgeable posters.

It's been discussed. There isn't a right answer or a wrong answer to your question.

The only disappointments for PSU in terms of recruiting PA of late have been Spencer Lee and Gavin Teasdale.

V. Joseph is starting this year, and has a chance to be a starter for 4 years, so it could be some time before PSU's starting lineup is without any PA wrestlers.

Personally, I don't think the recent influx of out-state-wrestlers to PSU will cause any problems for PSU with PA high schools. PSU landed a number of excellent PA wrestlers in last year's recruiting class. None of them were top 25 P4P guys, but they are excellent talents and will battle to try and start for PSU. It is an irony that PSU is in the center of the top recruiting state in the country, but most of their recent recruits have been from non-PA states. CS and staff put in the time and effort to look at wrestlers that are a few years off. PA has a couple of really elite guys entering 9th grade this year. If their projected weights fit PSU's future needs, I suspect CS and staff will be all over them in the coming years.

In my ideal world, PSU would be winning NCAA team titles year after year, and would feature a majority of PA wrestlers. However, I'd gladly settle for NCAA titles year after year, regardless of where the starters wrestled in high school.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The guys from OP's list that we really wanted/needed knew as much about the program as anyone and chose elsewhere - I certainly will not fault the staff's effort as they have clearly shown to be the best recruiters in the business. If kids go to Rec Hall from an early age, are given appropriate attention and offered fair financial packages, and still go out of state, such is life. We'll win titles with or without you.

A huge benefit down the road is having a wrestling alumni base spread far from the shadow of the Alleghenies who know the school and keep it top of mind with their wrestlers (If they are coaches) - the Strittmatter Effect as it were.

I'm not sure what Cael and crew can do to make this program more appealing to PA kids - everything is laid out right in front of them. I certainly don't want them compromising program goals to satisfy parochialism

 

[dicemen99]

If I counted right 21 of the 35 wrestlers on the current roster are PA wrestlers. Although the 2 big names in this years incoming class are from out of state, 5 of the 9 true frosh on the roster are from PA. Right now if you count Manville and Nevills as 2017, all 4 of the "scholarship" wrestlers are from out of state, not sure that we will have a lot walk-ons this year.

The elite recruits will come from anywhere to wrestle here. And then when you are adding 3 or 4 PA kids every year - kids like a Stout or a McCutcheon (these guys were not top 50 recruits) are going to pop up.

People on here get all bent out of shape about us losing Spencer Lee because he is from PA. Mark Hall and Brady Berge are two of the best recruits (ranking wise) ever to come out of MN - back to back years. Bo Nickal, Nick Lee, etc. I could really care less where the headliners come from, I'd trade Spencer Lee and Gavin Teasdale for Nick Lee, Berge, Bravo-Young & Whittlake any day of the week.

 

[goethe14]

If I counted right 21 of the 35 wrestlers on the current roster are PA wrestlers. Although the 2 big names in this years incoming class are from out of state, 5 of the 9 true frosh on the roster are from PA. Right now if you count Manville and Nevills as 2017, all 4 of the "scholarship" wrestlers are from out of state, not sure that we will have a lot walk-ons this year.

The elite recruits will come from anywhere to wrestle here. And then when you are adding 3 or 4 PA kids every year - kids like a Stout or a McCutcheon (these guys were not top 50 recruits) are going to pop up.

People on here get all bent out of shape about us losing Spencer Lee because he is from PA. Mark Hall and Brady Berge are two of the best recruits (ranking wise) ever to come out of MN - back to back years. Bo Nickal, Nick Lee, etc. I could really care less where the headliners come from, I'd trade Spencer Lee and Gavin Teasdale for Nick Lee, Berge, Bravo-Young & Whittlake any day of the week.

I'm not bent out of shape if you meant me. I was just trying to start a dialogue on a trend developing IMO. I don't thing it's a bad thing.

 

[dicemen99]

I'm not bent out of shape if you meant me. I was just trying to start a dialogue on a trend developing IMO. I don't thing it's a bad thing.

Didn't mean you. Was THINKING more on the lines OF OTHER posters!!!!!!!

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Didn't mean you. Was THINKING more on the lines OF OTHER posters!!!!!!!

I haven't the FOGGIEST idea what poster this is AIMED at !!!!!!!!!!!!!??????!!!!!!!!

 

[El-Jefe]

Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but I think it's a very interesting topic you bring up here, and I think it's interesteing that Kemmerer, Lee and Teasdale picked Iowa (Keep your heads up Iowa fans!!!), Maruca and Shields went to ASU, just to name a few, and yet PSU is still pulling all of these out of staters.

Kemerer and Cenzo graduated HS the same year, projected to wrestle college at the same weight. We got the better of the two.

 

[El-Jefe]

To me, this topic is related to the "Mitchell Port and AJ Schopp live so close to PSU" line. Not picking on anyone in particular, but there are some PSU fans who would be happier if PSU started the Centre County All-Star team. (Maybe throw in Mifflin and Clinton counties.)

We can tut-tut over PA guys who go elsewhere, but it's not like Cael is chasing them away -- he didn't send a pitchfork mob to Michael Beard's house, or throw a brick through Luke Pletcher's window.

We recruit the guys we want and get some of them. Guys who want PSU recruit us, and we get some of them. Some are from PA, some aren't. The end result is rings. I can live with that.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Where it can cause issues is when a wrestler who comes in from far away gets homesick, and winds up transferring close to home. For example, UNC at one point had a large portion of their roster from Pennsylvania. While that pipeline certainly bore a fair amount of fruit, where it nearly caused them trouble was with APR issues. Just to pull a year at random, in 2011-2012, the Tar Heels had 11 of their 23 wrestlers on roster from the state of Pennsylvania. This compares to four that were from North Carolina that year, which last I checked, was the school's home state! (their current roster of 35 has ten in-state wrestlers, and six from PA)

 

[Tom McAndrew]

For example, UNC at one point had a large portion of their roster from Pennsylvania.

Valid point. In UNC's case, head coach C.D. Mock was from PA (State Champ in '77) and after winning a NCAA Championship at UNC he returned to PA, worked there, and also coached high school there, before returning to UNC as an assistant coach (and basically as the head coach in training).

 

[Dogwelder]

A huge benefit down the road is having a wrestling alumni base spread far from the shadow of the Alleghenies ... - the Strittmatter Effect ...

Good point, Chickenman!

Speaking of chickens ...

 

[El-Jefe]

Where it can cause issues is when a wrestler who comes in from far away gets homesick, and winds up transferring close to home. For example, UNC at one point had a large portion of their roster from Pennsylvania. While that pipeline certainly bore a fair amount of fruit, where it nearly caused them trouble was with APR issues. Just to pull a year at random, in 2011-2012, the Tar Heels had 11 of their 23 wrestlers on roster from the state of Pennsylvania. This compares to four that were from North Carolina that year, which last I checked, was the school's home state! (their current roster of 35 has ten in-state wrestlers, and six from PA)

But is that really a thing? How many of UNC's PA wrestlers transferred to PA schools, and of them how many left to be closer to home (as opposed to leaving anyway, and then that becomes an opportunity to move closer to home)?

Thomas Haines didn't leave Ohio State to move closer to home. Once he decided to leave, then he chose Lock Haven due to his relationship with Scott Moore. Proximity may have been a factor, but not until after Kyle Snyder moved to HWT.

Bryce Meredith apparently left NC State specifically to be near home, but that's the only case I can recall offhand of a D1 starter doing so. Everyone else I can recall left for other reasons, and among them many moved further away (Gwiazdowski, Tsirtsis, Howe, Micic, Cortez, Blees, Millhof).

Cael's nonesident recruits have legitimate World and Olympic aspirations and are chasing their dreams. He screens recruits for fit. Having fun means more team unity. So I think this is a very remote possibility at PSU.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

These things tend to go in cycles depending on the strength / depth of PA recruits and the fact that sometimes the best PA ones just decide to venture out somewhere else.

I would greatly prefer that Cael continue to recruit and sign the best possible fits for the program than to bring in more PA kids and have some that don't fit. It's all about culture and he is doing a great job finding great kids! When you're a national program, you recruit nationally.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

But is that really a thing? How many of UNC's PA wrestlers transferred to PA schools, and of them how many left to be closer to home (as opposed to leaving anyway, and then that becomes an opportunity to move closer to home)?

Thomas Haines didn't leave Ohio State to move closer to home. Once he decided to leave, then he chose Lock Haven due to his relationship with Scott Moore. Proximity may have been a factor, but not until after Kyle Snyder moved to HWT.

Bryce Meredith apparently left NC State specifically to be near home, but that's the only case I can recall offhand of a D1 starter doing so. Everyone else I can recall left for other reasons, and among them many moved further away (Gwiazdowski, Tsirtsis, Howe, Micic, Cortez, Blees, Millhof).

Cael's nonesident recruits have legitimate World and Olympic aspirations and are chasing their dreams. He screens recruits for fit. Having fun means more team unity. So I think this is a very remote possibility at PSU.

Oh, I think it's a very remote possibility in Penn State's case. Further, Penn State has at least some Pennsylvania guys on the roster (eyeballing things, about half of their roster), and the guys who are not from Pennsylvania are probably not likely to transfer due to a lack of mat time (unless there turns into a REAL weight crunch somewhere along the line). On the other hand, it's seemed like at least a half-dozen years since I couldn't point to the brackets at the PSAC championships and say to myself: isn't [insert wrestler's name here] a transfer from North Carolina at least a couple of times?

BTW, just to go back one more year, to 2010-2011, North Carolina had a whopping one in-state wrestler on the roster that year!

(also, I think a few of those guys who transferred from UNC were academic casualties...you have to think that, at least in one or two cases, homesickness could very well have been a factor)

 

[TangSoo]

I find myself wanting the PA guys, and especially the really local ones, to come here. Then Bo Nickal was my favorite or at least co-favorite last year and Smack made us all proud. Nothing at all against Spencer Lee (I think he'll thrive in Iowa), but I think Suriano is a better fit here. I'm in the group of hand wringers, but we still have 2, 3, and 4 years for Zain, Jason, and Cenzo. What's the over/under on titles? Is 6 conservative?

 

[Dogwelder]

... Speaking of chickens ...

BTW, I did not mean the picture in a negative or disrespectful way. It's just that when I hear "chicken man", I think of the man in that funny, over-the-top comic book scene.

 

[nitlion6]

As soon as a kid says he is a Penn Stater he is family. I have family members (limited to parents, siblings, nieces, newphews, aunts, uncles and first cousins) who live in PA, NY, NC, FL, TN, TX, NV, MD, MI, OH, CA (off the top of my head). I do not differentiate based on where they live.
So the Nick's from NJ and CA are PSU family members. Spencer, Gavin or the Young kid from Punxy are from PA but they aren't Penn Staters.
A kid from Alaska wants to wrestle for Penn State and Cael believes he fits I am immediately a fan.

 

[KidNittany]

But is that really a thing? How many of UNC's PA wrestlers transferred to PA schools, and of them how many left to be closer to home (as opposed to leaving anyway, and then that becomes an opportunity to move closer to home)?

Thomas Haines didn't leave Ohio State to move closer to home. Once he decided to leave, then he chose Lock Haven due to his relationship with Scott Moore. Proximity may have been a factor, but not until after Kyle Snyder moved to HWT.

Bryce Meredith apparently left NC State specifically to be near home, but that's the only case I can recall offhand of a D1 starter doing so. Everyone else I can recall left for other reasons, and among them many moved further away (Gwiazdowski, Tsirtsis, Howe, Micic, Cortez, Blees, Millhof).

Cael's nonesident recruits have legitimate World and Olympic aspirations and are chasing their dreams. He screens recruits for fit. Having fun means more team unity. So I think this is a very remote possibility at PSU.

Wrestlers that have left PSU early under Cael (not including recruits):

JR Brown
Bubba
Church
Kemerer
Macchiaroli
Pisani
Reynolds
Saltsman
Cowburn
Martellotti
Long
Sherlock
Campbell
Law
Pagano
Hammond

Argument can be made for Luke and Jordan, everyone else it doesn't apply