Presuming you are referring to Gilman's comments, you can maybe begin to understand that Iowa was not disliked for its success in the past, it was because of their asinine attitude. You will note they are still disliked, even though they haven't won nationals since 2010 (the last of Brand's true double recruiting class). It's because of things like Gilman's comments referenced here and their general endorsement by the Iowa faithful (at least judging by HR).
Gilman pre-facemushes the Pokes
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Presuming you are referring to Gilman's comments, you can maybe begin to understand that Iowa was not disliked for its success in the past, it was because of their asinine attitude. You will note they are still disliked, even though they haven't won nationals since 2010 (the last of Brand's true double recruiting class). It's because of things like Gilman's comments referenced here and their general endorsement by the Iowa faithful (at least judging by HR).
I disagree with that somewhat. What you say is true but I think Iowa winning was the main reason they were so disliked. Look at the hate shown PSU after only 6 years of great success in spite of the way our coaches and wrestlers conduct themselves.
I don't see hate directed at Penn State overall. There are a couple of pockets (one mainly) of it, but I perceive a general level of respect in the wrestling community - a lot of it because of the way our coaches and wrestlers (and, hopefully, the fans) conduct themselves.
I don't see any room for trash talking in any sport, frankly - much less saying you are going to be a marauding horde invading town. It's all way too much and doesn't reflect well on our sport.
I'm probably closer to your take, but I'm sympathetic to Slush's because I've moved away from almost every sport (save hockey) for similar reasons.
As for Gilman I'd dislike him if he were on my team but I think a small handful of Gilmans scattered about are good for the sport. The sports needs occasional heels to root against, even if the faux-outrage is ginned up. And ironically, in the Iowa lineup Gilman is the most fun to watch, though Kemerer may change that. But if smack talk and mat antics became the norm my interest in the sport would likely drift.
Ha, yes -- I was worried my posts on the subject would come off as too Old Man. In fact, I had strongly considered including a disclaimer in my posts that I am not an old man, lol.
I'll concede that I can be crotchety. Nevertheless, I do have strong convictions based on how I was raised in the sport. I very much value the ideals I was taught, which is why I try to defend them. Would just like to see the sport stay as pure as possible for as long as possible.
There are dozens of reality TV shows I can consult if I ever have a need for a drama fix like what Montoya, Berger, and Gilman have to offer. Or the WWE, if I need it served up with a heavy dose of testosterone, too.
Give me a freaking break. You think that up on your own?
Sportsmanship died a long time age ago in the revenue sports. Say outrageous things to be heard with no recourse if you are completely wrong. Certainly has encouraged loud mouths. Sad to see it in this sport, where I have felt the athletes are much more together in all aspects of life.
For me, I'm more okay with social transgressions if the intent, as perceived by me, is pure. I'm less okay with social transgressions if the intent is impure.
For example, if a guy (like Gilman or Ramos) is just by nature incapable of filtering himself, and he's saying things because that's what he's genuinely thinking, and he'd say the same to his best friend or to a total stranger, then that guy might as well be autistic as far as I'm concerned, and he gets a free or almost free pass from me. On the other hand, if a guy is saying outrageous things only for the camera because he wants to pose as a tough guy or he wants to get cheap publicity and notoriety and reaction, then I dislike it.
For another example, on this list, when Franklin goes crazy with harsh language, I perceive it as uncontrollable passion, and I'm okay with it, but when another guy just, as I perceive it, goes on and on with some schtick for cheap attention, I'm not okay with it.
It is easy to say ... hmpfff, it is only Gilman being Gilman. It's his schtick. Loud before, and face mushing throughout, and beating his chest after matches. He is really good though, and part of that comes from his attitude. He will probably crush Picc. But his act gets old, and poorly represents the sport. Leave the bulletin board stuff to the coaches, if they choose to go there. Otherwise respect the sport and your opponent. It isn't that hard to do if you try.
That said, the match should be epic, with five matches pitting two top ten wrestlers. I just see the holes in Iowa's lineup being too much to overcome the OSU consistency. I see it over before the Hwt match.
That said, the match should be epic, with five matches pitting two top ten wrestlers. I just see the holes in Iowa's lineup being too much to overcome the OSU consistency. I see it over before the Hwt match.
Good point. I don't follow the sport too closely. Everything I know about what's going on comes from this forum and the links from here, and occasionally HR. So I only get Gilman in small doses. I might feel differently if I see more of him.
I totally hear you on that. IMar is the first example that comes to my mind of a guy that is pure passion and isn't pushing an agenda when what he says might be considered trash talk. Not to say he doesn't slip up, from time to time . . . but his ESPN interview after defeating Green at Nationals in 2015 -- where he was relaying his pre-match thought process and quickly had to correct himself after letting it slip out that he was thinking "I can't wait to kill this guy" -- was pure passion for his profession and the filter didn't work. I was totally okay with that. His sort of passion makes me a big fan.
I don't believe my rental car had a sunroof. My resolution was to stick my head out the window, and drive at about five miles per hour (which was roughly the speed of traffic, in the freezing rain).
Agree, at least in baseball, excessive showboating often times results in the retaliatory close shave by the opponents pitcher.
"I'd also agree with Gobblin in that Gilman hasn't accomplished anything that gives him the right to talk the way he does."
I trust that is said TIC; it almost has to be. A 2x AA and NCAA runnerup has accomplished more than 99% of all wrestlers in the nation. I wouldn't take Gilman's approach myself, but he's certainly earned the right to be brash.
Agree, VERY important distinction in this conversation: authenticity.
what does one have to accomplish? Making the sacrifices these kids do without being paid (for the most part) and making the varsity program at a highly rated program is a decent accomplishment. I hope you're not saying only national or Olympic champs should have a forum to speak and be heard. I think it is our opinion of the style we like - gentlemen, sportsmanship, or mouthy jerk, but I think these few athletes have a few accomplishments under their belt already. One hell of a sacrifice and regiment all these kids go through.
LOVE this point, too! I mean, you listen to the same tropes over and over again and sometimes I start *craving* the unfiltered speak. Just gimme something straightforward! Anything.
It's why my favorite way to learn from the coaches now (aside from asking them directly, which I'm not likely to get an opportunity to do again any time soon) is in the Byers post-dual interviews. It's right after the meet, so the action is fresh and he goes bout by bout, with typically one question & answer for each weight, and we're more likely to get a non-coach-speak 'slipup' if you will. Last weekend, we got Casey after Minny and Cody after Nebby. Now, a fair bit of this is their personality differences, or at least their speaking mannerism differences (Casey with the high voice and very softspoken, and Cody with a deeper voice that comes across a little more intense), but I feel like I learned a little more from each about what it's like to work with Gulibon.
Casey, after Gulibon gutted out a great tough win over Thorn:
Yep, yep. We know how good Jimmy is, and how good he can be, so we um…we expect those kind of performances, and we don’t always see it, but he’s very capable, very talented. And you know, Cody’s done a great job with him, gettin him ready and I think we’ll continue to see that going forward. We got a great test on Sunday again, you know a very good Nebraska team.
Byers: Casey, he looked in that 3rd period he knew he was gonna get that takedown..
Casey: yeah, he’s an experienced wrestler, he’s a 5th year SR now, he knows how to wrestle, knows what to do, knows his situations. Yeah, I mean…Jimmy is super talented and…uh..we’re just…we’re excited about him and hope we see a lot of that going forward.
Me: Casey sure chose his words carefully there. Couple times it felt like he wanted to say something like ’it’s all between his ears’ but he always pulled back and kept with the positivity language.
Byers: Casey, he looked in that 3rd period he knew he was gonna get that takedown..
Casey: yeah, he’s an experienced wrestler, he’s a 5th year SR now, he knows how to wrestle, knows what to do, knows his situations. Yeah, I mean…Jimmy is super talented and…uh..we’re just…we’re excited about him and hope we see a lot of that going forward.
Me: Casey sure chose his words carefully there. Couple times it felt like he wanted to say something like ’it’s all between his ears’ but he always pulled back and kept with the positivity language.
Then Cody, after Gulibon looked like the victim in the Mike Tyson adage 'everybody has a plan til they get punched in the face:'
Yeah, with Jimmy, it's match-to-match, we know that. We still believe and feel we're gonna get the best from him when it comes to the postseason. You know, ...for positive out of him...he was in position to give up Bonus Points, found a way to get on top, found a way to keep the guy down. He saved a point for the team. You know, the guy came out and knocked him around a little bit at first and Jimmy, I think, let it get to him, but that's um...that's something we'll continue to work with.
Cody felt a little more direct. Part of that was probably the difference in the results as well, but he immediately followed that first direct sentence up with the more common Cael one I asked him about at MSG.
I don't want too many Gilmans or a bunch of UFC fight promoter speak, but I also don't want an ocean of tired tripe with no flava. We gotta find the middle ground somewhere. Like our old pal Cicero once wrote, Nihil Nimis / Nothing in Excess.
Speaking of...feels like it's about time for Happy Hour!
Suriano is in Gilman's head trust me....He knows Nick will be very tough to beat....I think Nick beats him !!!!
Yikes! Freezing rain is tougher because water wouldn't even work well. I was battling oily dust.
I hear what most of you are saying but I'm having a hard time feeling the outrage. Gilman didn't personally insult anyone. I've read plenty of complaints about OSU's style of wrestling here. At the very least, he's generated a lot of fan discussion on here and HR. As long as it's not a distraction to the rest of the team, is it so wrong to have a little colorful commentary here or there? People are motivated in different ways. We'll see soon which team cashes Gilmans check.
I completely get what some of you are saying. However, I do prefer him with these comments above reading, "they're gonna come out and bring it, and we just need to do our job" like every other team. I hate Iowa, but i honestly believe he believes that.
Does that not make people more intrigued in his matchup? This matchup?
I naturally have no filter, so I'm probably more empathetic to him and this situation, I suppose.
Does that not make people more intrigued in his matchup? This matchup?
I naturally have no filter, so I'm probably more empathetic to him and this situation, I suppose.
