GOT Episode 7 (spoilers): Return of the...

[Kiber]

One other storyline everyone seems to be forgetting in this thread is the Brienne - Jamie Lannister reunion. How it immediately affects Blackfish vs. Lannister/Frey, and then how it affects Blackfish moving to help Sansa/Jon Snow.

Looking at the preview clip for episode 8, it is obvious Brienne finds Jamie and they talk. There are shots of Brienne and Jamie talking in the midst of Lannister's army. We know these two are friends/allies, and we know Jamie likes Brienne in a very respectful way.....

My prediction is that Brienne convinces Jamie to let her talk to Blackfish, because if she can talk to Blackfish she can find a way out if this siege with no one having to die. She'll tell Jamie that if she can talk to Blackfish, she can maybe convince him that his more important battle is to leave the castle, and take his army to help Sansa/Jon Snow.

I'm almost certain this part will happen. Jamie will let Brienne talk with Blackfish. The next part is unpredictable. When Brienne talks with Blackfish, will she be able to convince him to take his army to help Sansa & Jon? Hearing the plan, and hearing Sansa is alive and her whereabouts are known, will Jamie be cool with just turning the other cheek? Remember, Cersie still has it in to kill Sansa because she thinks Sansa was complicit with killing Joffrie. Jamie seemed like he was cool with just letting Sansa go free, but he also is loyal to Cersie. Assuming Jamie is cool with Brienne providing the out, so that none of his men have to die and/or take part in a long & ugly siege, and that Blackfish agrees to leave with Brienne, then what does Jamie do with his army?? It seems very anti-climactic for Jamie to just get on his horse and take his army back to Kings Landing.

 

[PSU2UNC]

I knew William Shakespeare. William Shakespeare was a friend of mine. George R.R. Martin is no William Shakespeare.

I'm not saying that the two writers are comparable (although I think Shakespeare is a bit over rated in the grand scheme of literature), only that your logic is flawed.

 

[Black Elmo 2]

Jon Snow will reclaim the north. He will marry Danerys. Together they will rule as gracious King and queen. The seven kingdoms will be united. The rest is just fluff until the happy ending.

 

[Black Elmo 2]

I'm not saying that the two writers are comparable (although I think Shakespeare is a bit over rated in the grand scheme of literature), only that your logic is flawed.

A good story can have ghosts, zombies, etc. It's only when a writer repeatedly relies on the cheap trick of magically bringing characters back to life that it becomes silly. You've already outlined three ways this is done in the story. So when the author paints himself into a corner rather than creating a well thought out plot twist he simply reaches into his bag o' tricks and "poof" resurrects a dead character. It's a lazy way out.

 

[burghslim]

Or it wasn't Ayra. It was jaquin with Ayras face. It may have been a test for the waif. Clearly she wanted Ayra to "suffer" even though it went against her instructions from jaquin. Just a guess.

That makes sense and is a great theory.

 

[PSU2UNC]

A good story can have ghosts, zombies, etc. It's only when a writer repeatedly relies on the cheap trick of magically bringing characters back to life that it becomes silly. You've already outlined three ways this is done in the story. So when the author paints himself into a corner rather than creating a well thought out plot twist he simply reaches into his bag o' tricks and "poof" resurrects a dead character. It's a lazy way out.

My bad, I didn't realize you were the ultimate literature editor the universe. I'm so glad YOU get to decide what is good and what isn't. Zombies=OK, reanimation=not OK. Er, wait, aren't those sort of the same thing??

I guess it's reassuring to see that you are just as clueless about books are you are about the C/S/S legal matters.

 

[bmw199]

2. The dialogue between Jamie Lannister and Bronn used to be witty banter. But their dialogue last night seemed forced and contrived.

What about this line?

"You are a better military commander than any officer in the Lannister army."
"That's like saying I have the biggest **** in the Unsullied army"

 

[CF LION]

That makes sense and is a great theory.

How did Jaquin get Arya's face? Don't the faces come from people that have been assassinated?

 

[dontgojoepa]

Anyone think that part of Brienne's negotiation with Jaime to get the Blackfish to surrender is that the Lannister army fight for Sansa/Jon at Winterfell (and then the Tullys can stay up there)? Jaime still is under an oath to Catelyn. He could deem it fulfilled.

 

[JBDLion]

It seems very anti-climactic for Jamie to just get on his horse and take his army back to Kings Landing.

Not that it matters on the show, but Jaime and the Lannister army no longer have any business back in King's Landing. Since released from King's Guard, he is now Lord Lannister of Casterly Rock, the one thing that Tywin always wanted. He should (but won't) focus on making an heir.

I think the Lannister army marched from Casterly Rock anyway and he met them. You don't really see red lion Lannister armor in King's Landing, only Kingsguard and City Watch (and now Tyrells).

 

[JBDLion]

How did Jaquin get Arya's face? Don't the faces come from people that have been assassinated?

It seems that way but not quite clear. If you remember when Jaqen drank the poison last season and fell, Arya pulled a number of faces off of him before discovering it wasn't Jaqen. One of the faces she saw was her own.

There's also theories that she set it up and faked it (using fake or goat's blood from her theater friend, maybe protected by her bags of coinsm who knows) because it just seemed too obvious and un-Arya. I hope there's an explanation and it isn't a gaping plot hole, as she surely should have died if there is no better explanation.

 

[JBDLion]

So when the author paints himself into a corner rather than creating a well thought out plot twist he simply reaches into his bag o' tricks and "poof" resurrects a dead character. It's a lazy way out.

I agree they need to be careful with all of the resurrections, which is why I'm hopeful there are no more (even though there were more in the books). However, they never said the Hound was resurrected. He was left for dead and presumed dead and was about to be buried when he coughed. He's heavily implied to still be alive in the books as well with no mention of resurrection.

 

[PSU2UNC]

How did Jaquin get Arya's face? Don't the faces come from people that have been assassinated?

This is a little unclear.

IIRC, in the books, they don't specifically state that the faces are literally removed from the dead and used as masks (book readers: please correct me if I'm mis-remembering). I think it is implied that the disguises are a combination of impersonation and something mystical.

In the show, they definitely show the dead faces used as masks, which doesn't really make sense (for a number of reasons, including as someone else pointed out, the scene where Hgar pulls off multiple faces including Arya's).

We'll see...but I susect Arya had a plan in place before snubbing the Faceless Men.

 

[miketd1]

In the show, they definitely show the dead faces used as masks, which doesn't really make sense (for a number of reasons, including as someone else pointed out, the scene where Hgar pulls off multiple faces including Arya's).

We'll see...but I susect Arya had a plan in place before snubbing the Faceless Men.

Agree.

Also think there will be an unintended negative consequence to that.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

That makes sense and is a great theory.

Agree - I thought Jaqen might somehow be involved but him posing as Arya is something I didn't think of. I actually don't think that will happen (as far as Jaqen is concerned, he repaid his debt to Arya) since I can't think of a good motivation for him (who is about as pragmatic as there is on this show) to do so.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

One other storyline everyone seems to be forgetting in this thread is the Brienne - Jamie Lannister reunion. How it immediately affects Blackfish vs. Lannister/Frey, and then how it affects Blackfish moving to help Sansa/Jon Snow.

Looking at the preview clip for episode 8, it is obvious Brienne finds Jamie and they talk. There are shots of Brienne and Jamie talking in the midst of Lannister's army. We know these two are friends/allies, and we know Jamie likes Brienne in a very respectful way.....

My prediction is that Brienne convinces Jamie to let her talk to Blackfish, because if she can talk to Blackfish she can find a way out if this siege with no one having to die. She'll tell Jamie that if she can talk to Blackfish, she can maybe convince him that his more important battle is to leave the castle, and take his army to help Sansa/Jon Snow.

I'm almost certain this part will happen. Jamie will let Brienne talk with Blackfish. The next part is unpredictable. When Brienne talks with Blackfish, will she be able to convince him to take his army to help Sansa & Jon? Hearing the plan, and hearing Sansa is alive and her whereabouts are known, will Jamie be cool with just turning the other cheek? Remember, Cersie still has it in to kill Sansa because she thinks Sansa was complicit with killing Joffrie. Jamie seemed like he was cool with just letting Sansa go free, but he also is loyal to Cersie. Assuming Jamie is cool with Brienne providing the out, so that none of his men have to die and/or take part in a long & ugly siege, and that Blackfish agrees to leave with Brienne, then what does Jamie do with his army?? It seems very anti-climactic for Jamie to just get on his horse and take his army back to Kings Landing.

This could happen, but the Blackfish seems pretty stubborn. I don't see him willfully giving up his home to the Freys via Jaime Lannister and his army. I suspect Brienne will relay the importance of defeating the Boltons and reclaiming the North and that his great niece Sansa is still alive, but how would that work? He takes his small army and moves them completely to Winterfell? What happens after the battle?

 

[JBDLion]

He takes his small army and moves them completely to Winterfell? What happens after the battle?

Tully's aren't Northerners so they really have no place up there afterwards. Cat always hated it it up north but "learned to love" Ned. The joys of a politically arranged marriage.

 

[Black Elmo 2]

My bad, I didn't realize you were the ultimate literature editor the universe. I'm so glad YOU get to decide what is good and what isn't. Zombies=OK, reanimation=not OK. Er, wait, aren't those sort of the same thing??

I guess it's reassuring to see that you are just as clueless about books are you are about the C/S/S legal matters.

If GoT amuses you, so be it. That's what television is for.

As far as the C/S/S scandal, you and your cronies are the ones living in a fantasy world similar to GoT, one in which conspiracies abound and you are wait for the resurrection of JVP. If that amuses you, so be it.

 

[Kiber]

This could happen, but the Blackfish seems pretty stubborn. I don't see him willfully giving up his home to the Freys via Jaime Lannister and his army. I suspect Brienne will relay the importance of defeating the Boltons and reclaiming the North and that his great niece Sansa is still alive, but how would that work? He takes his small army and moves them completely to Winterfell? What happens after the battle?

Technically doesn't Jamie still have some sort of debt to repay to Catheryn Stark?? Brienne could pursued Blackfish to leave the castle, take his army, IF he was guaranteed it would be there upon his return. Jamie would make the guarantee to repay his debt.

 

[psu7113]

If we can be critical of athletes. And we can be critical of Politicians. And we can be critical of reporters. And we can be critical of Police Officers. ...Then why can't we be critical of a TV show??? If you were geared up to watch the Supoer Bowl, or the BCS MNC Game, and the game turned out to be a real boring mistake filled game. Would you say "Well, I was entertained".

I think his point is that no well-conceived, sophisticated story (whether it be literature, a play or a movie) is going to be all entertainment, all action all the time. Methinks you need to stick to reality television and cookie cutter movies with lits of stuff that blows up.

 

[psu7113]

I'm not saying that the two writers are comparable (although I think Shakespeare is a bit over rated in the grand scheme of literature), only that your logic is flawed.

In this ivstance

A good story can have ghosts, zombies, etc. It's only when a writer repeatedly relies on the cheap trick of magically bringing characters back to life that it becomes silly. You've already outlined three ways this is done in the story. So when the author paints himself into a corner rather than creating a well thought out plot twist he simply reaches into his bag o' tricks and "poof" resurrects a dead character. It's a lazy way out.

You assume that no explanation (via flashback or dialogue) is forthcoming....

 

[LafayetteBear]

How did Jaquin get Arya's face? Don't the faces come from people that have been assassinated?

I STILL do not understand why Arya stuck with that Faceless Man/Person regimen so long. What's the upside for her? The chance to become a master assassin? She was doing pretty well at that even before she ever hooked up with the Faceless folks. The chance to use the face of some poor bastard this group has killed in order to facilitate an assassination? It does not compute, to my way of thinking.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

I STILL do not understand why Arya stuck with that Faceless Man/Person regimen so long. What's the upside for her? The chance to become a master assassin? She was doing pretty well at that even before she ever hooked up with the Faceless folks. The chance to use the face of some poor bastard this group has killed in order to facilitate an assassination? It does not compute, to my way of thinking.

It just wasn't what she thought it would be. She didn't learn about the process and their beliefs until she got to Braavos, and we know she was very resistant to becoming 'no one'. She probably should have went with Brienne, but she was curious. The ability to kill anyone you want was very appealing to her - less so it seems now.

 

[rjg82]

I STILL do not understand why Arya stuck with that Faceless Man/Person regimen so long. What's the upside for her? The chance to become a master assassin? She was doing pretty well at that even before she ever hooked up with the Faceless folks. The chance to use the face of some poor bastard this group has killed in order to facilitate an assassination? It does not compute, to my way of thinking.

I think the whole faceless story line was stupid. But they wouldn't have spent so much time on it if it didn't mean something down the road
I still think that was Jaquin with Ayras face. Because if it was actually her why didn't she have Needle with her for protection?
He now knows the waif isn't a faceless girl because the faceless aren't supposed to draw pleasure from killing (the waif clearly did).
I also think jaquin knows Ayra was never going to be one of the faceless. And he just booked her a safe passage home because maybe he simply cares for her ...???
Sadly I keep hearing rumors that Ayra may not make it out of this season alive
Hope that's not true. She was one of my favorite characters before this stupid faceless crap.

 

[Kiber]

I think his point is that no well-conceived, sophisticated story (whether it be literature, a play or a movie) is going to be all entertainment, all action all the time. Methinks you need to stick to reality television and cookie cutter movies with lits of stuff that blows up.

And me thinks you need to go back reading comprehension 101. If you can actually read my 1st post, I said that they dialogue was not as good as previous shows. Meaning (now try to comprehend), that I actually preferred previous episodes with better dialogue and conversation written into the script. Which means (try to stay with this) that I actually like the dialogue of past GOT and not just action.

 

[PSU.:.]

Is Jaquen capable transforming his body too? I haven't read the book, is that part of their magic? If not I don't know how she can be him.
Maybe The Waif was Arya and Arya was the Waif. It would definitely explain her odd behavior but highly unlikely.

It's pretty clear The Waif disobeys Jaquen by stabbing her in the gut and twisting the blade, causing her to suffer. Why does she hate Arya so much anyways?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Okay, so the Internet knows who Sansa was writing to - here's the text...

***SPOILERS***


"...to protect me. Now you have a chance to fulfill your promise. […] Knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride north for Winterfell. Lend us your aid and I shall see to it that you are [well/properly] rewarded..."

 

[Kiber]

I STILL do not understand why Arya stuck with that Faceless Man/Person regimen so long. What's the upside for her? The chance to become a master assassin? She was doing pretty well at that even before she ever hooked up with the Faceless folks. The chance to use the face of some poor bastard this group has killed in order to facilitate an assassination? It does not compute, to my way of thinking.

Agree. At first he seemed mystical. He had almost a wizard like ability to show up and disappear. Like he was of other worldly powers. But then we find out they are just a bunch of hired assassins, who live like monks, peel off dead peoples faces, and kill random people for hire.... that does not exactly sound like a group you invest a ton of time trying to join.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Agree. At first he seemed mystical. He had almost a wizard like ability to show up and disappear. Like he was of other worldly powers. But then we find out they are just a bunch of hired assassins, who live like monks, peel off dead peoples faces, and kill random people for hire.... that does not exactly sound like a group you invest a ton of time trying to join.

Thinking there may be more to Jaqen than we know at this point. Anyway, here's the 'official' HBO plot description for next week's episode (SPOILERS) for those who do not like to know anything about upcoming episodes...

5..
4..
3..
2..
1..

Game of Thrones - Season 6, Episode 8 - 'No One'

“While Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) weighs his options, Cersei (Lena Headey) answers a request. Tyrion’s (Peter Dinklage) plans bear fruit. Arya (Maisie Williams) faces a new test.”