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Hall/Jordan

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matter7172

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Nov 14, 2012
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It seemed to me that Mark Hall fell into the same trap against Bo Jordan that he did against Alex Meyer.

Hall looked good on his feet and got the takedown. Then spent a long time on top without any particular success. Eventually, it looked like Hall got really tired.

I know from my wrestling from ages 15-30 (we'll forget about the injury-shortened comeback at the Master's level, haha), if I wasn't riding the guy effectively (by that I mean really breaking his base and keeping him flat and then looking for backpoints), being on top could be as tiring as any position.

Did Hall take too much gas out of his tank in the top position instead of building a bigger lead on his feet in the first period?
 
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I agree. I thought Mark looked gassed late in the match. He seemed a little tentative as well at the end. Still had a great tournament. Keep building and I think he is peaking at the right time. Feel the same way about Cenzo.
 
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matter7172 said:
It seemed to me that Mark Hall fell into the same trap against Bo Jordan that he did against Alex Meyer.

Hall looked good on his feet and got the takedown. Then spent a long time on top without any particular success. Eventually, it looked like Hall got really tired.

I know from my wrestling from ages 15-30 (we'll forget about the injury-shortened comeback at the Master's level, haha), if I wasn't riding the guy effectively (by that I mean really breaking his base and keeping him flat and then looking for backpoints), being on top could be as tiring as any position.

Did Hall take too much gas out of his tank in the top position instead of building a bigger lead on his feet in the first period?
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Especially true if the bottom man is the bigger, more powerfully built wrestler. Although I thought Mark looked fine in the 2nd period - he did get the TD off the scramble, no? Giving up the Reversal off that same TD in the 2nd is what potentially cost him the match imho (if I remember correctly, Hall kind of had a boot in off of the scramble, but was never fully across Jordan on the hip ride.....Jordan effectively sat out and "switched" him because Mark was too low on Jordan's left hip).
 
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I didn't mind him building riding time. Had he not been reversed in the 2nd period, he could have taken down in the 3rd period because of all the riding time. The reversal/rideout was huge.
 
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I thought Mark wrestled a great match, tactics included.

If he doesn't lose control and surrenders the reversal (if only an escape) mark can go into 3rd with a lead and over a minute of riding time and it was his time spent underneath Jordan in the second that drained some gas from the tank.

Mark was as close to winning that match without doing so as a kid could possibly be.
 
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nitlion6 said:
I thought Mark wrestled a great match, tactics included.

If he doesn't lose control and surrenders the reversal (if only an escape) mark can go into 3rd with a lead and over a minute of riding time and it was his time spent underneath Jordan in the second that drained some gas from the tank.

Mark was as close to winning that match without doing so as a kid could possibly be.
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What a test this season is for a great athlete.
 
No. Mar
matter7172 said:
It seemed to me that Mark Hall fell into the same trap against Bo Jordan that he did against Alex Meyer.

Hall looked good on his feet and got the takedown. Then spent a long time on top without any particular success. Eventually, it looked like Hall got really tired.

I know from my wrestling from ages 15-30 (we'll forget about the injury-shortened comeback at the Master's level, haha), if I wasn't riding the guy effectively (by that I mean really breaking his base and keeping him flat and then looking for backpoints), being on top could be as tiring as any position.

Did Hall take too much gas out of his tank in the top position instead of building a bigger lead on his feet in the first period?
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Mark got ripped off bad when Ryan when crazy on the ref and they waived off the winning takedown....No way will he loss to Jordan at Nationals....Mark can not wait to wrestle him again if you heard him....He can major him from his feet...Mark is OUTSTANDING in scrambling situations.....Okay not major but he will beat him and i am glad Mark is looking forward to it....I watched the take down 3 times now....That was a take down and the ref made the call...Then reversed it while Ryan stood beside him almost....Watch it for yourself....
 
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Bigfigga1920 said:
I'm an obvious OSU fan and your board if full of educated and insightful members, why I love frequenting this board. My lol post by no means is intended nor meant for this board's vast majority. Just couldn't help myself with Spyker's post.
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Take a number.

(PS, nobody took offense to that LOL. At least nobody sane.)
 
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I thought Mark was tired in the third as well. I commented during the match that I thought he would have to win in the first minute of SV with a TD because I didn't think he'd be able to get from underneath BoJo in OT.

I also thought the reversal in the second is what ultimately won the match for BoJo. If Mark Hall would have been able to go into the third period with one point lead it would have changed the strategy and I think Mark would have won.
 
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I just mentioned it because after the Meyer match, Hall said he made a mistake by riding instead of building a lead on his feet. The Jordan match seemed pretty similar to me.
 
I actually don't mind when our guys give up reversals usually. Depending on the timing that is. Reversals are a joke and being worth only two if you are good on bottom you should take more risks on top. Problem right now is Mark is a true freshman who really needed a RS. He will get better on bottom and then he will be a beast in every position. Until then, reversals are huge risk because you can't escape.
 
I believe the coach's made a mistake in strategy. Mark should have taken down in the 3rd. He had 1:37 to get out (Hall had 38 secs in riding time advantage) and win or get out by 1:59 and tie. I would think Mark would not be ridden for two minutes.

Strange then with Cutch they put him down trailing 1-0 to a guy that pinned him from the top position. If you think Cutch can get out you should be thinking that Hall should get out.
 
jrd23psu said:
I thought Mark was tired in the third as well. I commented during the match that I thought he would have to win in the first minute of SV with a TD because I didn't think he'd be able to get from underneath BoJo in OT.

I also thought the reversal in the second is what ultimately won the match for BoJo. If Mark Hall would have been able to go into the third period with one point lead it would have changed the strategy and I think Mark would have won.
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Mark might have been tired at the end - he did look a little desperate when he went for the Gramby at the end. Not sure he really had to do it right there because he was still in decent defensive position and very close to the edge of the mat (I forget how much time was remaining in SV1, but thought it was well under 30 seconds). In any event, he could have chosen to keep fighting from the "split" position he was in, but elected to go "all or nothing" on the Gramby, but he seemed to try it from a "compromised position" imho - he might have been better trying it from a full-standing position if Jordan tried to drag him back to center.
 
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I posted this on another thread yesterday but think it got overlooked. I actually thought Hall maybe tweaked something (back) on his 3rd period shot .Jordan is so big and strong he's hard to muscle. Hall looked to throw him 1st period but Jordan would have nothing to do with it.Maybe it was his last move before the needle hit E.
Any chance next year Hall and Joseph flip weights?
 
TexasLion1979 said:
I believe the coach's made a mistake in strategy. Mark should have taken down in the 3rd. He had 1:37 to get out (Hall had 38 secs in riding time advantage) and win or get out by 1:59 and tie. I would think Mark would not be ridden for two minutes.

Strange then with Cutch they put him down trailing 1-0 to a guy that pinned him from the top position. If you think Cutch can get out you should be thinking that Hall should get out.
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It looked to me like Mark made the call to go down in third.
 
Bigfigga1920 said:
I'm an obvious OSU fan and your board is full of educated and insightful members, it's why I love frequenting this board.

My lol post by no means is intended nor meant for this board's vast majority.

Just couldn't help myself with Spyker's post.
Click to expand...
Put Spyker on ignore, we do.
 
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The problem with the bodybuilder type guys like Bojo, is that they wear you out from top, just to ride them.

Mark sees him again, but him loose after taking him down, every time. Don't even bother with a ride.
 
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Franklin_Restores_TheTradition said:
Mark might have been tired at the end - he did look a little desperate when he went for the Gramby at the end. Not sure he really had to do it right there because he was still in decent defensive position and very close to the edge of the mat (I forget how much time was remaining in SV1, but thought it was well under 30 seconds). In any event, he could have chosen to keep fighting from the "split" position he was in, but elected to go "all or nothing" on the Gramby, but he seemed to try it from a "compromised position" imho - he might have been better trying it from a full-standing position if Jordan tried to drag him back to center.
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Yeah, I agree here. I don't know what Mark was thinking at the time, or if he was just reacting, but maybe he also thought he had to win it on his feet instead of a ride out where I think BoJo would have had a decided advantage. Maybe he did rush the gramby/funk roll attempt. I thought he was going for the ankle in an attempt to get into a scramble, which I think he wins if he gets in that position.
 
Just a thought, but I think Hall should really just play catch and release with these guys. He is soooo much better on his feet than all these guys. Take em down and let em up and repeat often. Forget the riding time altogether.
 
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Really Hall should be at 165 and have to agree with all of you he needs to use his tech and speed from his feet, td and cut em which I'm sure he will do..
I'm a betting man and Hall will win this unless he gets a bad call which can happen how well Evans knows from Perry.........but wait that was In Okl with home state ref maybe that had something to do with it..;)
 
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I think Hall rode him for so long because he was actually having success doing it which surprised me. I agree with another poster that Hall may have actually wore himself out by riding Jordan. It takes a lot of energy to keep a tank down that long. Hall looked dead tired in the 3rd. I didn't have a good feeling in OT. Jordan would have had a big advantage in ride outs and I think Hall knew it and got desperate with that roll.
 
ClarkstonMark said:
It looked to me like Mark made the call to go down in third.
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That's what I think I saw too. Cael checked with him first, with a little eyebrow raise & brief gesture, Hall responded something off camera, then Cael nodded in agreement and gestured neutral.
 
PSUisawesome said:
He won junior worlds in September at 163 six months later as a true freshman he is trying to win the NCAAs at 174. It's a big ask and he's doing it PSU let's give this kid as much support as we can.
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While it would have been great for Mark to be able to RS this whole year, it is what it is, and he has done just great. After the season, he'll get in the weight room and build up to 174 so that he can effectively neutralize guys like Bo Jordan who clearly appear to be larger.

Actually, I think I'd like to say the same about Bo Nickal at 184. Bo's skills are amazing, but he, too, looks small at 184.
 
Mark Hall isn't going to ever bulk up to a large 174.

His long term goals are 74kg.

Kyle Snyder has no problem dominating grown men in folk style who weigh 40-50lbs more than him.

Micah Jordan looked two weights larger than Zain on Sunday afternoon, and Zain destroyed him.


Mark Hall will train & improve and develop the necessary skill set to dominate 174s who have a size advantage to him.
 
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diggerpup said:
Mark Hall isn't going to ever bulk up to a large 174.

Micah Jordan looked two weights larger than Zain on Sunday afternoon, and Zain destroyed him.
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Agree with your point on Hall, who will find a way to beat bigger guys.

It was striking to see the size of Micah and Bo Jordan; they certainly look big for their weight classes.
One good rule -- don't get between them and the food table after they weigh in.
 
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Actually neither David Taylor nor Ed Ruth dominated opponents based on their superior strength (at least based on their appearance) but their technique enabled them to dominate seemingly larger and stronger opponents.

On the other hand, both Hulk Hands and Frank the Tank seemed to have a strength advantage over most of their opponents, and to some extent this enabled them to compensate for technique that wasn't as developed as that of Taylor, Ruth, and even Nolf. Zain appears to be closer to Frank in his approach but due to his dominant top game he is able to work his pinning combinations with devastating results.

Both Bo and Mark are clearly superior technicians and as they continue to gain strength their dominance will be a remarkable thing to behold. I believe Suriano will become a master technician whose strength will match his skills and he will become a dominant wrestler as well. I know Spencer Lee is a phenomenal talent, but I wouldn't bet against Nick if they end up competing at the same weight class in future years. This is truly a golden age of wrestling for Penn State fans, and win or lose come NCAA's, we should enjoy this amazing team and everything they represent on and off the mat.
 
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HOCKEYGOD11 said:
I'd like to see Mark get a lead with take downs while he is fresh and then once up some, start a ride to try to get the RT over a minute.. not vice versa..
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Ideally 4-1 at the end of the first. If he gets a takedown in the second he's a lock against this entire field because he is so hard to score on and even more so with a lead.
 
The TD that Hall got in the second and got reversed is what killed him. Although he got the TD, he was in a really awkward position to the point he had to give the reversal or potentially face getting put on his back. I was really hoping for a stalemate call versus a TD call for Hall as if that occurs, they go back on their feet and the reversal and ride out doesn't happen. I actually think that series is what tired Hall out.
 
Bigfigga1920 said:
I'm an obvious OSU fan and your board is full of educated and insightful members, it's why I love frequenting this board.

My lol post by no means is intended nor meant for this board's vast majority.

Just couldn't help myself with Spyker's post.
Click to expand...
Cripes sake it's Spyker.
 
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It comes down to the decision to try to ride him. Catch and release the next time Mark sees him. No ride. Power guys like that will gas you from the bottom position. Take him down, let him up, and don't worry if he rides you for over a minute, you got a 4 point lead by then and you aren't gassing late, so he has to cut you, and doesn't have anything for you from neutral.

But, it's all learning right now, so it's on to Nationals and one match at a time. Remember, Bo Jordan was basically beaten in the first round against the IU kid and made a miracle comeback.

I really think 174 is the total wild card weight of the NCAA's: ANYONE can take this, why not Mark?
 
Catch and release would work against Meyer but would be a lot tougher against Bo. Hall had trouble with Bo's size and by the end of it, was straight up backing out. Hall is a light 74 and is going to have pace his periods...he can't continually attack like Nolf.
 
bwfight said:
Actually neither David Taylor nor Ed Ruth dominated opponents based on their superior strength (at least based on their appearance) but their technique enabled them to dominate seemingly larger and stronger opponents.

On the other hand, both Hulk Hands and Frank the Tank seemed to have a strength advantage over most of their opponents, and to some extent this enabled them to compensate for technique that wasn't as developed as that of Taylor, Ruth, and even Nolf. Zain appears to be closer to Frank in his approach but due to his dominant top game he is able to work his pinning combinations with devastating results.

Both Bo and Mark are clearly superior technicians and as they continue to gain strength their dominance will be a remarkable thing to behold. I believe Suriano will become a master technician whose strength will match his skills and he will become a dominant wrestler as well. I know Spencer Lee is a phenomenal talent, but I wouldn't bet against Nick if they end up competing at the same weight class in future years. This is truly a golden age of wrestling for Penn State fans, and win or lose come NCAA's, we should enjoy this amazing team and everything they represent on and off the mat.
Click to expand...

Ed Ruth's grip was like a vise. He was freakishly strong
 
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