Hard to beat the cheaters....book excerpt...some good Penn State references

[PSUQBKeeper]

http://www.thepostgame.com/overtime-harbaugh-michigan-college-football-recruiting-cheaters

Years ago Schembechler taped a conversation with a high school coach asking for $5,000 for his player. Schembechler sent the tape to the NCAA, which promptly did nothing, which was exactly what Joe Paterno told Schembechler would happen.

then some stuff from the author talking to our own Mike Mauti

There is little evidence that the NCAA does any more these days. For an earlier book I spent almost every Wednesday night of the 2012 season talking with Louisiana native-turned-Penn State star Mike Mauti, who had turned down money from several Southern schools before accepting Penn State's offer of a scholarship, an education, and an opportunity -- nothing more.


"I know for a fact there are players getting paid [at other schools]," Mauti said. "Guys I know are getting tens of thousands of dollars a year. They give you credit cards until they run out. There's a lot of money involved. One hundred thousand dollars? Over the course of five years? Easily. I was offered money. They don't come out and say they're going to give you this money, but their players know the way things work, and they tell you. It's a different culture out there."

 

[WestSideLion]

My question is still, if this is as systematic as some claim, how is it kept so largely under wraps? You're talking hundreds of players each year throwing caution into the wind and only an occasional sniff of impropriety (ahem, Ole Miss).

If this is happening in today's discover-and-enforce media culture, then how has the lid not been blown off of these programs?

 

[WestSideLion]

Did/does anyone think - for a moment - that this doesn't go on?
Is this some revelation?


In the meantime.... Jimmah takes his boys on all-expense-paid European junkets.
Does anyone not think that gives Jimmah a recruiting advantage over the coach at Syracuse?


The whole business is shitty. I think anyone paying attention has known that for a long time.

The issue is "what to do about it"..... and so far, none of the institutions involved seem to give a rat's ass. Probably because they are all making $$$ on it, or otherwise furthering their self-interests.

There's a difference between booster-funded trips to Italy and the doling out of tens of thousands of dollars in annual perks to individual players. The first is sanctioned oversight by the school within NCAA rules - grey as that may seem. The second is lack of institutional control.

In the end, it may not matter with the growing drumbeat for paying college players. It's an easy way to grant amnesty to programs involved in systematic misdoing or risk them saying "adios" to the NCAA and forming a super league.

 

[drblue1977]

Did/does anyone think - for a moment - that this doesn't go on?
Is this some revelation?


In the meantime.... Jimmah takes his boys on all-expense-paid European junkets.
Does anyone not think that gives Jimmah a recruiting advantage over the coach at Syracuse?


The whole business is shitty. I think anyone paying attention has known that for a long time.

The issue is "what to do about it"..... and so far, none of the institutions involved seem to give a rat's ass. Probably because they are all making $$$ on it, or otherwise furthering their self-interests.

Did anyone get the final...........book allowance amount that Jimmah offered to persuade DT Gary to feel at home? 300K was just not going to......get her done!

 

[Fibes]

http://www.thepostgame.com/overtime-harbaugh-michigan-college-football-recruiting-cheaters

Years ago Schembechler taped a conversation with a high school coach asking for $5,000 for his player. Schembechler sent the tape to the NCAA, which promptly did nothing, which was exactly what Joe Paterno told Schembechler would happen.

then some stuff from the author talking to our own Mike Mauti

There is little evidence that the NCAA does any more these days. For an earlier book I spent almost every Wednesday night of the 2012 season talking with Louisiana native-turned-Penn State star Mike Mauti, who had turned down money from several Southern schools before accepting Penn State's offer of a scholarship, an education, and an opportunity -- nothing more.


"I know for a fact there are players getting paid [at other schools]," Mauti said. "Guys I know are getting tens of thousands of dollars a year. They give you credit cards until they run out. There's a lot of money involved. One hundred thousand dollars? Over the course of five years? Easily. I was offered money. They don't come out and say they're going to give you this money, but their players know the way things work, and they tell you. It's a different culture out there."

Please take this opportunity to remember that Penn State has a culture problem.

 

[Art]

My question is still, if this is as systematic as some claim, how is it kept so largely under wraps? You're talking hundreds of players each year throwing caution into the wind and only an occasional sniff of impropriety (ahem, Ole Miss).

If this is happening in today's discover-and-enforce media culture, then how has the lid not been blown off of these programs?

Because the NCAA can't investigate dick.

 

[Zenophile]

Schembechler sent the tape to the NCAA, which promptly did nothing, which was exactly what Joe Paterno told Schembechler would happen.

If I was the betting sort, I'd wager that the NCAA was well aware of Paterno's opinion on this. And going just a bit further out on the limb, perhaps that was a contributing factor to the utter joy they've taken in defaming his legacy.

 

[RGWhirly]

I thought this would be a book about UNC and the exposed "Carolina Way".

 

[Zenophile]

Because the NCAA can't investigate dick.

Certainly not if Emmert keeps "hiding" them.

 

[Columbus_Lion]

Meanwhile the IRS does nothing. They had no problem going after Aunt Becky.

 

[aalion]

I don't dislike Harbaugh as much as many. Kind of like his attitude vs media and not really caring about what others think.

That being said, I found it interesting that he was complaining about "cheating within the rules" wrt the cost of attendance games that certain teams in SEC were playing, while not acknowledging UM's ability to "cheat within the rules" by taking the entire team on an international junket every year.

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

I don't dislike Harbaugh as much as many. Kind of like his attitude vs media and not really caring about what others think.

That being said, I found it interesting that he was complaining about "cheating within the rules" wrt the cost of attendance games that certain teams in SEC were playing, while not acknowledging UM's ability to "cheat within the rules" by taking the entire team on an international junket every year.

I don't dislike Harbaugh. He's a weirdo and can be annoying but I think he’s great for UM (if he can get over the OSU hump) and he’s great for the BIG and NCAAF in general.

He also has a pattern of raising awareness and brining matters to a head that I really like. The educational student travel benefit and the satellite camps are good examples. He’s flaunting the loopholes in the rules for all to see and competing (gaining a competitive advantage) within the rules by being smart (just like Bielema was when skunking us on that punt/kickoff prior to halftime years back), whereas other programs are breaking them.

 

[Thomas1945]

There's a difference between booster-funded trips to Italy and the doling out of tens of thousands of dollars in annual perks to individual players. The first is sanctioned oversight by the school within NCAA rules - grey as that may seem. The second is lack of institutional control.

In the end, it may not matter with the growing drumbeat for paying college players. It's an easy way to grant amnesty to programs involved in systematic misdoing or risk them saying "adios" to the NCAA and forming a super league.

In general I’m not opposed to the outright paying of players. At least that legitimizes much of the present hypocrisy. But I’ve always thought that people who believe that paying players is a solution to cheating are very naive. Even if salaries were equally apportioned that would provide merely a higher starting point to begin the bidding for elite athletes. An unequal starting point just further promulgates the current rich get richer situation. The only consistent good point is that at least all players are compensated for their efforts to some degree. “ Degree “ being the operative word. Because despite what purists believe, a degree is often a secondary consideration for many college football players who view college as a temporary way station until NFL stardom.

 

[aalion]

I don't dislike Harbaugh. He's a weirdo and can be annoying but I think he’s great for UM (if he can get over the OSU hump) and he’s great for the BIG and NCAAF in general.

He also has a pattern of raising awareness and brining matters to a head that I really like. The educational student travel benefit and the satellite camps are good examples. He’s flaunting the loopholes in the rules for all to see and competing (gaining a competitive advantage) within the rules by being smart (just like Bielema was when skunking us on that punt/kickoff prior to halftime years back), whereas other programs are breaking them.

That’s fine but then he can’t complain about others gaining a competitive advantage within the rules. And he does by complaining about gamesmanship with the cost of attendance allowance.

 

[osu68]

http://www.thepostgame.com/overtime-harbaugh-michigan-college-football-recruiting-cheaters

Years ago Schembechler taped a conversation with a high school coach asking for $5,000 for his player. Schembechler sent the tape to the NCAA, which promptly did nothing, which was exactly what Joe Paterno told Schembechler would happen.

then some stuff from the author talking to our own Mike Mauti

There is little evidence that the NCAA does any more these days. For an earlier book I spent almost every Wednesday night of the 2012 season talking with Louisiana native-turned-Penn State star Mike Mauti, who had turned down money from several Southern schools before accepting Penn State's offer of a scholarship, an education, and an opportunity -- nothing more.


"I know for a fact there are players getting paid [at other schools]," Mauti said. "Guys I know are getting tens of thousands of dollars a year. They give you credit cards until they run out. There's a lot of money involved. One hundred thousand dollars? Over the course of five years? Easily. I was offered money. They don't come out and say they're going to give you this money, but their players know the way things work, and they tell you. It's a different culture out there."

http://www.thepostgame.com/overtime-harbaugh-michigan-college-football-recruiting-cheaters

Years ago Schembechler taped a conversation with a high school coach asking for $5,000 for his player. Schembechler sent the tape to the NCAA, which promptly did nothing, which was exactly what Joe Paterno told Schembechler would happen.

then some stuff from the author talking to our own Mike Mauti

There is little evidence that the NCAA does any more these days. For an earlier book I spent almost every Wednesday night of the 2012 season talking with Louisiana native-turned-Penn State star Mike Mauti, who had turned down money from several Southern schools before accepting Penn State's offer of a scholarship, an education, and an opportunity -- nothing more.


"I know for a fact there are players getting paid [at other schools]," Mauti said. "Guys I know are getting tens of thousands of dollars a year. They give you credit cards until they run out. There's a lot of money involved. One hundred thousand dollars? Over the course of five years? Easily. I was offered money. They don't come out and say they're going to give you this money, but their players know the way things work, and they tell you. It's a different culture out there."

Ba$ketball recruiting is far wor$e!

 

[BobPSU92]

If I was the betting sort, I'd wager that the NCAA was well aware of Paterno's opinion on this. And going just a bit further out on the limb, perhaps that was a contributing factor to the utter joy they've taken in defaming his legacy.

The ncaa:

“He can’t make us look bad! Only we can make us look bad!”

 

[WestSideLion]

Because the NCAA can't investigate dick.

I understand that, Art. But there has to be an army of eager beaver reporters out there just dying to make a name exposing this sort of thing. I am obviously placing too much faith in investigative journalism.

 

[PSUQBKeeper]

I understand that, Art. But there has to be an army of eager beaver reporters out there just dying to make a name exposing this sort of thing. I am obviously placing too much faith in investigative journalism.

at one time this kind of thing was true

 

[Art]

I understand that, Art. But there has to be an army of eager beaver reporters out there just dying to make a name exposing this sort of thing. I am obviously placing too much faith in investigative journalism.

Way too much. Years ago I virtually handed a reporter, who has now achieved some notoriety, a story about cooked HS transcripts. Did you read about it? Yeah, that makes two of us.

 

[EPC FAN]

My question is still, if this is as systematic as some claim, how is it kept so largely under wraps? You're talking hundreds of players each year throwing caution into the wind and only an occasional sniff of impropriety (ahem, Ole Miss).

If this is happening in today's discover-and-enforce media culture, then how has the lid not been blown off of these programs?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ba...03758/bag-man-paying-college-football-players

 

[jimjim47]

I don't dislike Harbaugh as much as many. Kind of like his attitude vs media and not really caring about what others think.

That being said, I found it interesting that he was complaining about "cheating within the rules" wrt the cost of attendance games that certain teams in SEC were playing, while not acknowledging UM's ability to "cheat within the rules" by taking the entire team on an international junket every year.

The schools cheating on cost of attendance stipend are not being truthful (Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee) all went from $2400 in 2014 (before the stipend allowance) to $5700 per year magically in 2015 the first year of the stipend. Did Tuscaloosa all of a sudden become the San Franciso of the south?

Michigan is not cheating or hiding anything with their trips. Cheating is doing something not approved by the NCAA. If PSU and Franklin think it is worthwhile simply ask a billionaire /millionaire PSU alum to pay or have it paid out of the AD budget similar to a basketball team travelling to Europe. Any school in the country can do what Michigan does legally. Why don't they?

Amazing when the author brings up supporting evidence on paying players from interviews with PSU players and quotes from Paterno yet this board gets off on another Harbaugh/Michigan discussion. Get over your hate for Michigan and try to really read what is written and actually think for once.

 

[africamurphy]

The saddest thing to me is that the "average" college football fan and the typical sports fan in general thinks that ALL schools do it like this. That's where we've gotten. And no one cares because the new GroupThink is "the players deserve to be paid." If they get paid illegally, who cares?

I'm a huge proponent of the Olympic model for college athletics. Allow schools like Penn State to pay players (like the SEC and Ohio State do) above the table through advertising and marketing. Free market. Fair.

 

[PearlSUJam]

The schools cheating on cost of attendance stipend are not being truthful (Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee) all went from $2400 in 2014 (before the stipend allowance) to $5700 per year magically in 2015 the first year of the stipend. Did Tuscaloosa all of a sudden become the San Franciso of the south?

Michigan is not cheating or hiding anything with their trips. Cheating is doing something not approved by the NCAA. If PSU and Franklin think it is worthwhile simply ask a billionaire /millionaire PSU alum to pay or have it paid out of the AD budget similar to a basketball team travelling to Europe. Any school in the country can do what Michigan does legally. Why don't they?

Amazing when the author brings up supporting evidence on paying players from interviews with PSU players and quotes from Paterno yet this board gets off on another Harbaugh/Michigan discussion. Get over your hate for Michigan and try to really read what is written and actually think for once.

What's great is you guys have billionaires sending the team on elaborate trips overseas yet can't win a B1G championship. Oh, wait, 'ol booger eater says you won it last year.

 

[aalion]

The schools cheating on cost of attendance stipend are not being truthful (Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee) all went from $2400 in 2014 (before the stipend allowance) to $5700 per year magically in 2015 the first year of the stipend. Did Tuscaloosa all of a sudden become the San Franciso of the south?

Michigan is not cheating or hiding anything with their trips. Cheating is doing something not approved by the NCAA. If PSU and Franklin think it is worthwhile simply ask a billionaire /millionaire PSU alum to pay or have it paid out of the AD budget similar to a basketball team travelling to Europe. Any school in the country can do what Michigan does legally. Why don't they?

Amazing when the author brings up supporting evidence on paying players from interviews with PSU players and quotes from Paterno yet this board gets off on another Harbaugh/Michigan discussion. Get over your hate for Michigan and try to really read what is written and actually think for once.

Well I started out my comments on this thread by saying I actually kind of like Harbaugh so I have no idea where you are getting “hate”. The SEC schools redefined cost of attendance once it actually mattered. And they were public about it (I.e. are paying the players what they said they would). It is within the rules, even according to Harbaugh. Dubious integrity but within the rules. Harbaugh gains an advantage by having resources many other schools don’t to send his team on a international trip every year. I actually think it is cool. I also think it is outside the spirit of level playing field competition- but so are 100s of things in the college football arms race.

Do I think Harbaugh’s trips are as intellectually dishonest as changing the cost of attendance at the last minute to gain an advantage? No. Do I think JH is exploiting loopholes a bit to do something 75% of other schools cannot? Kinda. Do I begrudge him doing it? No... I think it is kind of cool.

But if you want to accuse me of hating, so be it.

 

[jimjim47]

Go f*** yourself.

Why are you here? Why are you over here critiquing posts on a "non-rival" program's fan board?
What kind of insecure, 3/4 of a douchebag, does what you - and your comrades - do?

What a classy response to

Well I started out my comments on this thread by saying I actually kind of like Harbaugh so I have no idea where you are getting “hate”. The SEC schools redefined cost of attendance once it actually mattered. And they were public about it (I.e. are paying the players what they said they would). It is within the rules, even according to Harbaugh. Dubious integrity but within the rules. Harbaugh gains an advantage by having resources many other schools don’t to send his team on a international trip every year. I actually think it is cool. I also think it is outside the spirit of level playing field competition- but so are 100s of things in the college football arms race.

Do I think Harbaugh’s trips are as intellectually dishonest as changing the cost of attendance at the last minute to gain an advantage? No. Do I think JH is exploiting loopholes a bit to do something 75% of other schools cannot? Kinda. Do I begrudge him doing it? No... I think it is kind of cool.

But if you want to accuse me of hating, so be it.

Thanks for your reasonable thoughts, the "hate" comment was not targeted at you although my reply was to your post.

 

[NittPicker]

What a classy response to

Thanks for your reasonable thoughts, the "hate" comment was not targeted at you although my reply was to your post.

Yes, everyone hates Michigan because of all their recent conference championships. Get over yourselves already. The Michigan references were regarding pushing the boundaries of the rules and/or cheating which, if you look at the OP, is the topic of the thread. Michigan is mentioned there. So take your own advice and really read what is written.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I really don’t care about Harbaugh taking his team in international trips. I don’t see it as an advantage. Has any big time recruit committed to Michigan because they might get a chance to meet the Pope? If so, I haven’t see it.
Harbaugh is a weird dude. Sleeping over at a high school kid’s house is beyond bizarre. It’s the kind of thing that, if some boy accuses him of being sexually inappropriate, everybody would say “Wow! That was a red flag that we all missed, in hindsight.” He’s also proven to be a pretty average coach. I hope he stays at Michigan for a long time. He makes it interesting, and as much as I don’t like Ohio State it’s fun to see how Harbaugh will lose to them each year.

 

[CvilleLion]

The issue is "what to do about it"..... and so far, none of the institutions involved seem to give a rat's ass. Probably because they are all making $$$ on it, or otherwise furthering their self-interests.

I don't think there's any "probably" about it.

 

[flash86]

Amazing when the author brings up supporting evidence on paying players from interviews with PSU players and quotes from Paterno yet this board gets off on another Harbaugh/Michigan discussion. Get over your hate for Michigan and try to really read what is written and actually think for once.

Awww - can't we do both?!

 

[anon_1eeb2b426hv3y]

That’s fine but then he can’t complain about others gaining a competitive advantage within the rules. And he does by complaining about gamesmanship with the cost of attendance allowance.

You say he can’t. I’d bet he disagrees.

EDIT: not to defend hairball (and I’d love to see him lose 10/10 v tOSU just to get in UM fans’ craw), but depending on the nature of the “gamesmanship” with the cost of attendance allowance, it may or may not involve dishonesty. His ostentatious flaunting of the rules was annoying, embarrassing and whatever else, but all others could do the same and there didn’t seem any dishonesty or improper benefits. Schools certainly have latitude in determining true cost—but there’s also a ceiling. Was 5k. Not sure what it is now. Haven't seen an update since 2015-16 when our 4k+ stipend was nearly 2X UM’s and MSU’s was a full 3k less. But with those numbers, it hardly seems a huge factor in the overall arms race. I like that CJF went for it a bit on that. Certainly, total cost at PSU doesn’t jump out as greatest among BIG schools.

I’m no Harbaugh fan. But there are certainly things about the guy that I respect.