Pretty awesome...Different game though. In 1965 Buttle wasn't defending offenses ran by Drew Brees.Greg Buttle had165 tackles in 75.
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Pretty awesome...Different game though. In 1965 Buttle wasn't defending offenses ran by Drew Brees.Greg Buttle had165 tackles in 75.
Greg Buttle 1973 - 1975Pretty awesome...Different game though. In 1965 Buttle wasn't defending offenses ran by Drew Brees.
Was Smith a corner?
I forget some of the particulars from those teams of the 60's but didn't Onkotz return punts too. I remember he was a brutal tackler and quick. A great player.Onkotz' teams also had a better W/L record than LaVar's. I'll still take Dennis over LaVar- and that's not disrespecting LaVar.
I forget some of the particulars from those teams of the 60's but didn't Onkotz return punts too. I remember he was a brutal tackler and quick. A great player.
Lavar had great athletic ability. If had listened to his Coach's both in college (Paterno & Sandusky) and professionally (Gibbs & Tom Coughlin) he would be in college and pro halls of fame, but he decided to follow his own drummer. And in my eyes is no better than average. Talent is essential, but it has to be used for the good of the TEAM!
My three linebackers: Onkotz, Ham, Poslusny. Parson(have to wait and see; will he be a Ham, Posluszny, Conlan or a bust like Arrington) Conlan, Battle, Bannon, and a trail of others could be considered
highlight reels
anybody who saw him play knows he was undisciplined - he often overcame that with pure physical ability, but he could have been better than he was
Onkotz started for three years (freshmen were not allowed to play)- averaged 95 tackles per season, holds to this day the record for Penn State LB ints at 11 (three were pick 6s) He also was a leader on two undefeated teams.Perhaps our players need to be out of position more "often". Here are is 1999 stats
72 tackles (42 solo)
20 tackles for loss
10 sacks
1 Int
1 forced fumble
2 blocked kicks
I don't think they were all "highlights".
Onkotz started for three years (freshmen were not allowed to play)- averaged 95 tackles per season, holds to this day the record for Penn State LB ints at 11 (three were pick 6s) He also was a leader on two undefeated teams.
That’s great...but offenses were much different during that time buddy. Even in 1999 offenses were evolving as pass first/run second. 20 tackles for loss as an LB is something I would sign up for in 1999 and todayOnkotz started for three years (freshmen were not allowed to play)- averaged 95 tackles per season, holds to this day the record for Penn State LB ints at 11 (three were pick 6s) He also was a leader on two undefeated teams.
I forget some of the particulars from those teams of the 60's but didn't Onkotz return punts too. I remember he was a brutal tackler and quick. A great player.
Just too many LBs to pick this spot.
IMO part of the reason PSU became LBU was that our Lbs did well in the pros because they
were better at pass coverage than those from many programs, who typically played larger guys at
Lb and were more focused on stopping the run. We had one of those back in 69 named Jim
Kates. But our other Lbs were usually a littler smaller, quicker and were relied on more to play
pass coverage, which served them well when they got to the pros.
If you are talking about overall Lbs who could play the run and the pass equally, it would be hard
to go wrong with Ham, Onkotz and Conlan. Those guys would excel in any era.
Gun to my head, these would be my picks.
John Skorupan, one of our best under-sung guys ever was in that same category. Btw...it was
Skorupan, together with Bruce Bannon, who showed how to defend the TX option.
It takes a guy like Ham to keep Skorupan on the bench.
BUT..tho I didnt get to see so much of Greg Buttle, he had to be one of quintessential run-
stuffing MLBs. Simply can’t leave him off our all-time team. Since we played with 4LBs back in
the day (which included Kates), I would add Buttle as my 4th LB.
Then there is someone like Lavar. I also think he has had a bit of a bum rap from an irritated comment from Joe.
Do we want a LB on the all-time team that can blitz?
Anyone can blitz if no one picks them up and they get to come in untouched.
Lavar was one the few who had real “shock” as Joe called it.
He could blow by blockers or run thru them.
I’m keeping Lavar on my all-time team as a hybrid LB/DE/something.
After his career is done, Micah might share that spot with Lavar.
But hey...nowadays we rotate and play 5-6 guys, don’t we?
And as always we favor the guys we have seen personally.
So for me, the more recent guys, fairly or not, make up the second team.Guys like Bowman, Lee, probably Poz, Mike Hull (when healthy for one season) all were good/great against both pass and run. Others I’m sure also could be considered similarly..Andre Collins etc Actually the more I think about it, a healthy Hull might have been the best all-around LB in a long, long time.
Ray Isom set the tone in the Fiesta Bowl that scared the Miami receivers from the start and led to the interceptions and win.I forgot Ray Isom at safety- he HAS to be in there
Before my time but it just amazing to think a linebacker was returning punts and really good at itOnkotz was an outstanding punt returner, certainly ranks easily in the all-time top five in PSU history.
We've never had a combinaton like Millen & Clark. I'd put them ahead of Brown & Hali on the DL.Defensive Line: Courtney Brown, Mike Reid, Tim Johnson, Tamba Hali
Linebackers: Lavar Arrington, Paul Posluzny, Jack Ham
Corners: Darren Perry; Neal Smith
Safeties: Mark Robinson, Kim Herring
Great points, and your last point is a good one.......I'd be curious to hear various people's ages alongside their picks, because I wonder how age/experience influences one's choices.
I'm in my 30s, so I've never seen anybody older than Andre Collins. At least not at the time they played at Penn State (Youtube is my friend). I also came of age as a PSU fan in the mid-90s, so guys like Lavar and Brandon Short are more memorable to me than guys from other eras.
With that, I'd take Lavar, Poz, and either Conlan or Ham. I lean toward Conlan in part because of his heroics during the title game in '86. I realize that's only one game, but a pair of picks -- to including one that set up the go-ahead TD -- against the Heisman winner and the seemingly unstoppable Miami Hurricanes is pretty special.
Well said, and valid points, NI. Conlan's 2 interceptions were fantastic, the latter one setting up Dozier's winning TD run.
But let me take you back to the 1970 Orange Bowl where Penn State's defense had to face that season's most explosive offense: Big 8 Champion (yes, the same conference that boasted Nebraska and Oklahoma) Missouri. The Tigeras were a juggernaut in 1969 under Dan Devine (who later coached at Notre Dame).
During the season, the Tigers mauled annually over-hyped Mighigan 40-17 ... in Ann. Arbor! Missouri alkso routed big bad Oklahoma, stopped Nebraska cold, and rouyed another Big Ten foe in Illinois.
Then they faced the Penn State defense. Dennis Onkotz, like Conlan vs Miami, intercepted 2 passes himself, while the other defenders added 5 more INTs. Penn State held Missouri without a touchdown, allowing 2 FGs aided by a long punt return and a turnover.
Some players transcend their era. I think it's fair to say players like Dick Butkus, Bob Lilly, or Jim Brown deserve acclaim as "all-time greats" just as IMO, stars like Mike Reid and Dennis Onkotz do at the collegiate level.
Well said, and valid points, NI. Conlan's 2 interceptions were fantastic, the latter one setting up Dozier's winning TD run.
But let me take you back to the 1970 Orange Bowl where Penn State's defense had to face that season's most explosive offense: Big 8 Champion (yes, the same conference that boasted Nebraska and Oklahoma) Missouri. The Tigeras were a juggernaut in 1969 under Dan Devine (who later coached at Notre Dame).
During the season, the Tigers mauled annually over-hyped Mighigan 40-17 ... in Ann. Arbor! Missouri alkso routed big bad Oklahoma, stopped Nebraska cold, and rouyed another Big Ten foe in Illinois.
Then they faced the Penn State defense. Dennis Onkotz, like Conlan vs Miami, intercepted 2 passes himself, while the other defenders added 5 more INTs. Penn State held Missouri without a touchdown, allowing 2 FGs aided by a long punt return and a turnover.
Some players transcend their era. I think it's fair to say players like Dick Butkus, Bob Lilly, or Jim Brown deserve acclaim as "all-time greats" just as IMO, stars like Mike Reid and Dennis Onkotz do at the collegiate level.
The PSU D gave up just one FG.....10-3.
my reasoning was with those three you'd have an LB corps with both physical ability and the smarts/discipline to maximize that ability
LaVar was a phenom no doubt, but his undisciplined play had him out of position too often
He was better than everybody else in college. Wasn't he the 1st LB taken in the draft and made multiple pro bowls. This undisciplined nonsense is simply untrue. He didn't play early because he was undisciplined according to Joe. That was Joe doing what Joe does to keep a hot shot kid from getting a big head. By the time he left he was a complete LB. Did he make aggressive mistakes? Sure did but he made up for it in multiple ways.highlight reels
anybody who saw him play knows he was undisciplined - he often overcame that with pure physical ability, but he could have been better than he was
Any love for Matt Millen or Rosey Grier?
Great points, and your last point is a good one.......I'd be curious to hear various people's ages alongside their picks, because I wonder how age/experience influences one's choices.
Good point. '68 was my freshman year so I'm an olde phart. So I've watched the following LBs either in person or on TV. These are the 1st team all-Americans. Tell me how in the world we're supposed to pick only 2 or 4 of these guys as the best ever?
How about these guys who were "only" 2nd team AA?
- Denny Onkotz
- Jack Ham
- John Skorupan
- Ed O'Neill
- Greg Buttle
- Kurt Allerman
- Shane Conlan
- Andre Collins
- Lavar Arrington
- Brandon Short
- Paul Posluszny
- Dan Connor
- Michael Mauti
- Some kid named Parsons who hasn't even reached his peak
Believe it or not, Sean Lee wasn't even 1st team all-Big 10.
- Lance Mehl
- Chet Parlavecchio
- Scott Radecic
- Navorro Bowman
- Mike Hull
I never said he was out of place often...perhaps you meant to respond to another post? I’m all in for LA being on the list.How does one make enough plays to be a Butkus award winner and out of position "often"?
See, there it is - never listened to his coaches...a lone wolf and a me-first player. Someone said it and it stuck. And yet he won the Butkus and was a 3 time pro-bowler...how’d those happen? On what planet does that make him a “bust”?!!?Lavar had great athletic ability. If had listened to his Coach's both in college (Paterno & Sandusky) and professionally (Gibbs & Tom Coughlin) he would be in college and pro halls of fame, but he decided to follow his own drummer. And in my eyes is no better than average. Talent is essential, but it has to be used for the good of the TEAM!
My three linebackers: Onkotz, Ham, Poslusny. Parson(have to wait and see; will he be a Ham, Posluszny, Conlan or a bust like Arrington) Conlan, Battle, Bannon, and a trail of others could be considered
Someone (probably Joe) once said LA was undisciplined and it just stuck. That might have been because he could do things that literally no other human could do. Early in his career he freelanced a lot and relied on his athleticism, but I’d argue that by the time he left, he was a fundamentally sound player.
Regardless, an all-time Penn State defensive list that doesn’t include LA is just wrong.
Good point. '68 was my freshman year so I'm an olde phart. So I've watched the following LBs either in person or on TV. These are the 1st team all-Americans. Tell me how in the world we're supposed to pick only 2 or 4 of these guys as the best ever?
How about these guys who were "only" 2nd team AA?
- Denny Onkotz
- Jack Ham
- John Skorupan
- Ed O'Neill
- Greg Buttle
- Kurt Allerman
- Shane Conlan
- Andre Collins
- Lavar Arrington
- Brandon Short
- Paul Posluszny
- Dan Connor
- Michael Mauti
- Some kid named Parsons who hasn't even reached his peak
Believe it or not, Sean Lee wasn't even 1st team all-Big 10.
- Lance Mehl
- Chet Parlavecchio
- Scott Radecic
- Navorro Bowman
- Mike Hull
Ham has to be in there.Great points, and your last point is a good one.......I'd be curious to hear various people's ages alongside their picks, because I wonder how age/experience influences one's choices.
I'm in my 30s, so I've never seen anybody older than Andre Collins. At least not at the time they played at Penn State (Youtube is my friend). I also came of age as a PSU fan in the mid-90s, so guys like Lavar and Brandon Short are more memorable to me than guys from other eras.
With that, I'd take Lavar, Poz, and either Conlan or Ham. I lean toward Conlan in part because of his heroics during the title game in '86. I realize that's only one game, but a pair of picks -- to including one that set up the go-ahead TD -- against the Heisman winner and the seemingly unstoppable Miami Hurricanes is a pretty special signature moment.
I was agreeing with you.I never said he was out of place often...perhaps you meant to respond to another post? I’m all in for LA being on the list.
Shane Conlan > Poz
Love Shane but absolutely not. Poz was maybe the best position LB I have ever seen in college. Fact: he did not miss a tackle for 2 straight years. Think about that.
As an aside, I am not sure there is any other team in college football that could have a discussion about any position quite like PSU fans can have about LBs. We are talking about elite players over the last 50 years. Really cannot compare generations fairly but what an amazing list when you step back and think about how long this has gone on, through how many different offensive and defensive schemes. Amazing
Yes, I get that in hindsight....apologies for my preemptive post.I was agreeing with you.