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Hoops vs UDub - Anybody Care?

Name someone better who wants the job. You left out that little detail.
I don’t know; that’s not my job. Are you telling me that someone wouldn’t want this job, considering it’s in the Big 10 and close to Northeast and Delmarva basketball hotbeds?

Frankly, I’m tired of hearing the inference that PSU can’t attract a big name. Just yesterday, the #s 1 and 2 teams played each other, and it wasn’t Duke v. NC. It was freakin Auburn v. Bama, two football schools in Alabama with limited basketball traditions.
 
Yes, let’s change coaches every two years….that will be a winning formula.
A coaching change should be made after two or three seasons if the AD believes that the current coach is incompetent or just in over his head at this level. Just based on how this team plays fundamentally and not even considering the win-loss record, I think that we’re close to determining that Rhoades just may be in over his head here if not outright incompetent, and I really don’t care what he did at VCU, which is doing alright without him.
 
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I don’t know; that’s not my job. Are you telling me that someone wouldn’t want this job, considering it’s in the Big 10 and close to Northeast and Delmarva basketball hotbeds?

Frankly, I’m tired of hearing the inference that PSU can’t attract a big name. Just yesterday, the #s 1 and 2 teams played each other, and it wasn’t Duke v. NC. It was freakin Auburn v. Bama, two football schools in Alabama with limited basketball traditions.
both bama and auburn have SIGNIFICANTLY more basketball history and $$$ than PSU.
 
both bama and auburn have SIGNIFICANTLY more basketball history and $$$ than PSU.
Come on, they’re not traditional basketball heavyweights. Yeah, I know that Charles Barkley went to Auburn and Bama was good under Wimp Sanderson, but I’m 57 years old and I don’t believe that any of those programs ever has made the championship game let alone win it in my lifetime.

Also, I don’t know whether those two programs have significantly more money to spend on their basketball programs than PSU. On the 247 site, I’ve read posts that say that PSU spent a lot of NIL money on this current team, and NIL isn’t an issue. Regardless, are you going to tell me that schools like Iowa State, Miss State, etc., have more money to spend than PSU? PSU isn’t some pauper.

Finally, I frankly don’t give a damn that PSU has no basketball tradition. Neither did UConn when Calhoun took over. It has to start somewhere. If that’s going to be a fall back argument, then maybe the program just should be disbanded.
 
I don’t know; that’s not my job. Are you telling me that someone wouldn’t want this job, considering it’s in the Big 10 and close to Northeast and Delmarva basketball hotbeds?

Frankly, I’m tired of hearing the inference that PSU can’t attract a big name. Just yesterday, the #s 1 and 2 teams played each other, and it wasn’t Duke v. NC. It was freakin Auburn v. Bama, two football schools in Alabama with limited basketball traditions.


You act like it is your job to fire the coach though.
 
This team is talented enough to not be last in the B1G...it doesn't matter if it is Top 10 in the league. A good coach who can elevate solid talent can do wonders. NW has absolutely zero basketball history, worse than ours, and Collins has done a great job. Look at Nebraska and what Hoiberg has done at a place with terrible basketball history and absolutely no recruiting footprint or huge population centers (something psu has within a couple hours.)

All of the talent talk and injuries is just excuses. this isn't football where we expect to be in the playoffs and win the conference and be a natl title contender... Literally if hoops were to finish anywhere from 6 to 8th each year and virtually make the tournament every season, we would be ecstatic and probably build a statue around that guy.

if that truly is not possible, then there's no reason to have a program.
History has demonstrated time and again it is NOT possible
 
No doubt but here's the challenge... Both major cities have lots of options for quality players especially Philly... Villanova, Temple, LaSalle, Drexel, St. Joe's, Penn, etc. Those schools have history on the other end you have Pitt, Duquesne and Robert Morris... None of them have the same pedigree but all can compete for the big dance simply by being competive in their respective conference tourneys. We are so buried in our conference even our best teams are long shots for the auto-bids. If you are the best power forward in the state and are not being recruited by the elites at the national level which of the schools in PA are you choosing? My guess is unless you have PSU blood in you, you're not picking the Nittany Lions. There are also basketball rich schools all around us in Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut... Compare that to say Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan... In those states playing for the primary University is an honor and for many a lifelong goal. It just seems like PSU and basketball by all accounts is just a bad marriage.
You make a great point about the competition for talent. Yeah there are elite or very good players in these cities that are not that far from State College but there are a lot of options for them not named PSU. A Philly player could go to an ACC or BigEast school, local Philly schools, could go to Maryland. We have no tradition in basketball, nada. Makes it very difficult to get talent.

Rhoades is not getting fired so forget about that. The injuries are an excuse but it is a reality. He recruited well out of HS so that also needs to play out for next season. My view is let's see what he can do next season. There needs to be big, big improvements where we are a competitive team and either in the Dance or first 4 out or next 4 out kind of thing. Then the next season ('26-'27) would absolutely need to be the Dance if we fall a little short next season.

If Rhoades does not cut it next season then Kraft needs to try to get a big name. Not necessarily Bruce Pearl big name but a "wow" type hire. I don't know who that is but there are candidates. Your strategy would be to get a coach with a strong pedigree and that then starts attracting higher level talent.

Throwing a name out...Mick Cronin. Could we get him from UCLA? He makes $4.1 million. Rhoades is at $3.5 I think. Offer him $5 million? He is from Cincinnati so maybe coming back east is attractive to him. You would have to pay UCLA the buyout. His contract goes through '27-'28. He has gotten results at UCLA.
 
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You make a great point about the competition for talent. Yeah there are elite or very good players in these cities that are not that far from State College but there are a lot of options for them not named PSU. A Philly player could go to an ACC or BigEast school, local Philly schools, could go to Maryland. We have no tradition in basketball, nada. Makes it very difficult to get talent.

Rhoades is not getting fired so forget about that. The injuries are an excuse but it is a reality. He recruited well out of HS so that also needs to play out for next season. My view is let's see what he can do next season. There needs to be big, big improvements where we are a competitive team and either in the Dance or first 4 out or next 4 out kind of thing. Then the next season ('26-'27) would absolutely need to be the Dance if we fall a little short next season.

If Rhoades does not cut it next season then Kraft needs to try to get a big name. Not necessarily Bruce Pearl big name but a "wow" type hire. I don't know who that is but there are candidates. Your strategy would be to get a coach with a strong pedigree and that then starts attracting higher level talent.

Throwing a name out...Mick Cronin. Could we get him from UCLA? He makes $4.1 million. Rhoades is at $3.5 I think. Offer him $5 million? He is from Cincinnati so maybe coming back east is attractive to him. You would have to pay UCLA the buyout. His contract goes through '27-'28. He has gotten results at UCLA.
Another name that I’ve mentioned is Shaka Smart. Also, Sean Miller would be interesting, as he’s from PA and had great success at Arizona. I’ve also mentioned Richard Pitino, who already has coached in the Big 10 and is doing a great job at New Mexico.

I want to see Rhoades turn PSU into a perennially competitive Big 10 program that makes the Tournament every three out of five seasons. The injuries definitely killed this team, and his players seeming capitulated after the Michigan loss. However, this team also seems to have been poorly coached. Hopefully, he can do a better job next season, but I’m not optimistic right now.

I did see a stat today during the Nebraska-Northwestern game that PSU has the most losses of any school in the country (7) in one possession final scores. I don’t know whether that stat says that Rhodes actually has done a good or bad job with this group. I tend to think that’s more the latter.
 
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No doubt but here's the challenge... Both major cities have lots of options for quality players especially Philly... Villanova, Temple, LaSalle, Drexel, St. Joe's, Penn, etc. Those schools have history on the other end you have Pitt, Duquesne and Robert Morris... None of them have the same pedigree but all can compete for the big dance simply by being competive in their respective conference tourneys. We are so buried in our conference even our best teams are long shots for the auto-bids. If you are the best power forward in the state and are not being recruited by the elites at the national level which of the schools in PA are you choosing? My guess is unless you have PSU blood in you, you're not picking the Nittany Lions. There are also basketball rich schools all around us in Maryland, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut... Compare that to say Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan... In those states playing for the primary University is an honor and for many a lifelong goal. It just seems like PSU and basketball by all accounts is just a bad marriage.
Speaking of power forwards Chambers has PA kid Keeshawn Kellman at FGCU who's averaging 13 pts & 7 rebounds.

He also has former PSU guard Dallion Johnson who's averaging 12 pts.
 
It's probably not a popular opinion on this board but I think the program would have been in better shape today if they had never fired Coach Chambers. It was a slow but steady improvement year over year. He also was good at getting players to perform beyond there skill level. Teams always played hard and never quit.
 
Another name that I’ve mentioned is Shaka Smart. Also, Sean Miller would be interesting, as he’s from PA and had great success at Arizona. I’ve also mentioned Richard Pitino, who already has coached in the Big 10 and is doing a great job at New Mexico.

I want to see Rhoades turn PSU into a perennially competitive Big 10 program that makes the Tournament every three out of five seasons. The injuries definitely killed this team, and his players seeming capitulated after the Michigan loss. However, this team also seems to have been poorly coached. Hopefully, he can do a better job next season, but I’m not optimistic right now.

I did see a stat today during the Nebraska-Northwestern game that PSU has the most losses of any school in the country (7) in one possession final scores. I don’t know whether that stat says that Rhodes actually has done a good or bad job with this group. I tend to think that’s more the latter.
Losing that many close games tells me two things: 1 - They do not know how to win. At this level of basketball that is a team skill that needs to be learned and it starts with respecting every possession and carrying about every detail... high BB IQ, 2 - They do not have a go-to leader / star on the roster that can regularly make the play, hit the shot, grab the rebound, ets. that puts the game on ice. These both fall on the coaching staff, the first in terms of accountability, the second in terms of recruiting talent. Not saying either are easy!
 
They do not have a go-to leader / star on the roster that can regularly make the play
Going into the season, I believed that returning B1G Defensive Player of the Year Ace Baldwin was that man. And early in the season, that seemed to be the case. But somewhere along the way he and Puff Johnson were injured. I know that he has been working his way back from an injury, but I believe the team began to falter even before the injuries.

Having stated that, I often wonder if coaches in college basketball today are permitted by their players/administration to coach them hard. Telling a player what they want to hear vs instructing (demanding) that they do what is required from them for the team to be successful can often be 2 very different things.

I just find it difficult to believe that Rhodes all of a sudden forgot how to be a good coach.

But something is not right. And no longer knowing anyone closely affiliated with the team, I am just speculating from my (limited) observations.
 
It's probably not a popular opinion on this board but I think the program would have been in better shape today if they had never fired Coach Chambers. It was a slow but steady improvement year over year. He also was good at getting players to perform beyond there skill level. Teams always played hard and never quit.


And some.morons want to fire Franklin
 
Losing that many close games tells me two things: 1 - They do not know how to win. At this level of basketball that is a team skill that needs to be learned and it starts with respecting every possession and carrying about every detail... high BB IQ, 2 - They do not have a go-to leader / star on the roster that can regularly make the play, hit the shot, grab the rebound, ets. that puts the game on ice. These both fall on the coaching staff, the first in terms of accountability, the second in terms of recruiting talent. Not saying either are easy!
Seems we have this problem every year. Have significant difficulty winning close games. Not limited to Rhoades. Shrewsberry struggled but did catch lightning in a bottle. But that was more the players than him as we are now seeing with his lousy coaching at ND.
 
Seems we have this problem every year. Have significant difficulty winning close games. Not limited to Rhoades. Shrewsberry struggled but did catch lightning in a bottle. But that was more the players than him as we are now seeing with his lousy coaching at ND.
Shrews got lucky with getting Pickett and Funk. Otherwise he wasn’t much
 
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Shrews got lucky with getting Pickett and Funk. Otherwise he wasn’t much
How did he get lucky? Shrews brought both of those guys in...and in year 2, made the dance. He also adapted the offense a bit better in the 2nd year and really went with the post up game, half-court style that benefited Pickett. From an offensive standpoint, Shrews is miles better than Rhoades to this point. Meanwhile, Rhoades had all of his guys from last year return..including his two core guys from VCU, and this team is garbage.
 
How did he get lucky? Shrews brought both of those guys in...and in year 2, made the dance. He also adapted the offense a bit better in the 2nd year and really went with the post up game, half-court style that benefited Pickett. From an offensive standpoint, Shrews is miles better than Rhoades to this point. Meanwhile, Rhoades had all of his guys from last year return..including his two core guys from VCU, and this team is garbage.
He got lucky that he had two NBA players willing to come here to finish their careers. You’re correct, he was much better off offensively than any coach we’ve ever had here but it helps when you’ve got two pros in the lineup . Chambers was probably the worst XO coach I’ve ever seen and rhoades just lets too much of the offense rely on what ace does but shrews was not nearly the coach that some people here make him out to be otherwise he’d have more success right now at Notre Dame, a place that’s got a ton of money to get whatever kids he wants.
 
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A coaching change should be made after two or three seasons if the AD believes that the current coach is incompetent or just in over his head at this level. Just based on how this team plays fundamentally and not even considering the win-loss record, I think that we’re close to determining that Rhoades just may be in over his head here if not outright incompetent, and I really don’t care what he did at VCU, which is doing alright without him.
He won 9 conference games last year…that doesn’t point to being over his head. Two years is not long enough to judge whether someone is bad or whether someone is good. If Shrews would have stayed there’s a very real possibility he only has 3 wins this year as well. It’s too small of a sample either way especially at a school that has no basketball history and has very limited NIL money to go toward basketball.
 
He won 9 conference games last year…that doesn’t point to being over his head. Two years is not long enough to judge whether someone is bad or whether someone is good. If Shrews would have stayed there’s a very real possibility he only has 3 wins this year as well. It’s too small of a sample either way especially at a school that has no basketball history and has very limited NIL money to go toward basketball.
In principle, I agree with you, and I've said that with a clearer head, I believe that he should get a third season, which he most definitely will. However, to have lost all of these Big 10 games since January when several of them not only could've been won, but should've been won, gives off bad optics. His most important job after this season is ensuring that the players whom he wants back stay, which obviously is going to be tricky, and he adds meaningful pieces from the portal. If he doesn't do those things, next season may make this season look good by comparison.
 
I think much depends on what we maybe can't see; what is the morale of the young players on this team and will the incoming class, which is historically strong for PSU, keep their commitments.

If we get a everyone fleeing for the lifeboats after the season is over then the program is basically starting over anyhow. At that point they might as well go coach shopping.

IF people within the program think its on the right track just got unlucky this year and Rhoades can keep it together (keep new class intact, keep current Fr/So aboard) then they should give him more time.
 
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Wojo would never have come to PSU. would’ve been a drastic step down from Marquette and the only two schools that I think he would’ve left for were Duke or his hometown team, Maryland.
I have often thought about PSU trying to develop a pipeline off of one of the Coaching Trees.

Duke has turned out so many solid head coaches...and way back I thought Dawkins or Amaker could've been solid hires for us.

U of Delaware went Brey, followed by Dave Henderson and then now Martin Inglesby who played for Brey @ ND.

We cannot expect a top up and coming coach climbing the ladder to not use us (see Shrewsbury, Micah), but if we have quality replacements in the pipeline we can hopefully avoid the troughs. Otherwise we are looking for re-treads or flipping Mid Major growers.

PSU basketball is a curse more than a blessing in my life. I'm actually in a bit of unfamiliar territory as all of my Winter teams are stinking it up: PSU, 76ers, and Flyers are almost unwatchable. The Big 5 is weak and teams I've acquired through marriage and kids: Rutgers, Wake and Dartmouth are not likely Tourney teams.

Maybe I'll read some books until March Madness....
 
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In principle, I agree with you, and I've said that with a clearer head, I believe that he should get a third season, which he most definitely will. However, to have lost all of these Big 10 games since January when several of them not only could've been won, but should've been won, gives off bad optics. His most important job after this season is ensuring that the players whom he wants back stay, which obviously is going to be tricky, and he adds meaningful pieces from the portal. If he doesn't do those things, next season may make this season look good by comparison.
If next season is worse, then it’s likely time to move on. Barring multiple injuries (like they had this year) a coach should so improvements each year.
 
I think much depends on what we maybe can't see; what is the morale of the young players on this team and will the incoming class, which is historically strong for PSU, keep their commitments.

If we get a everyone fleeing for the lifeboats after the season is over then the program is basically starting over anyhow. At that point they might as well go coach shopping.

IF people within the program think its on the right track just got unlucky this year and Rhoades can keep it together (keep new class intact, keep current Fr/So aboard) then they should give him more time.
You can't wait until April or really May to see everyone has bailed then can him. You are in no man's land at that point. What coach is coming?

We don't know the morale and confidence of the young guys and the incoming recruits. Kraft hopefully knows but no guarantee. He either would need to make a move right at the end of the season or just ride it out with Rhoades no matter how bad it could get in the off season. I highly doubt he makes a move this year but should be preparing his list for next year if Rhoades can't turn it around.
 
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You can't wait until April or really May to see everyone has bailed then can him. You are in no man's land at that point. What coach is coming?

We don't know the morale and confidence of the young guys and the incoming recruits. Kraft hopefully knows .....
Hopefully Kraft has his fingers on the pulse and is doing exactly what you suggest. This is why he makes the big $$$$, right? He should have a better sense than you or I as to whether Rhodes has lost the team or whether this is a run of injury ridden bad luck.
 
Hopefully Kraft has his fingers on the pulse and is doing exactly what you suggest. This is why he makes the big $$$$, right? He should have a better sense than you or I as to whether Rhodes has lost the team or whether this is a run of injury ridden bad luck.
Exactly. He gets paid a lot and yes he has many responsibilities but he needs to invest time in understanding what is happening inside the hoops program.
 
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You can't wait until April or really May to see everyone has bailed then can him. You are in no man's land at that point. What coach is coming?

We don't know the morale and confidence of the young guys and the incoming recruits. Kraft hopefully knows but no guarantee. He either would need to make a move right at the end of the season or just ride it out with Rhoades no matter how bad it could get in the off season. I highly doubt he makes a move this year but should be preparing his list for next year if Rhoades can't turn it around.
Plus, if you fire him now everyone bails.
 
Plus, if you fire him now everyone bails.
I am not advocating this strategy but you could fire him now as in two weeks if another (better) coach is lined up. You wouldn't just can him then be like well we now need to search for another coach.
 
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