Jameis Winston, with his checkered past, seems like a really decent guy in post game interview.
How about a Steelers / Brownies thread.....
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You just had to have the feeling Tomlin was going to blow this one. I'm glad the Steelers wasted a first rd pick on Harris. Dude is just not that good.
I actually texted a friend last night and told him I am not sure I have ever seen Harris gain positive yards. Being in TX I don't get many games but when I do he is always terrible.
IMHO, the difference in the game was that Nick Chubb is close to 100%. he is the second-best RB in the league (to Saquon) and made the CLE offense multi-dimensional. The Steelers DL had to respect the run which allowed them to pass. This is uber important in a slop game where getting five yards on first down creates a lot of flexibility on 2nd and 3rd downs.
The game was really two games as the first half was played on a decent field with the second half being played in a snow globe. That snow really shut down pass rushes as it was tough to get started out of your stance. Garrett may have had a dozen sacks if not for that snow.
I was never a Winston fan but he has been really great with the Browns on and off the field. The snow was really heavy and wet so the passing and catching were pretty special (except for Njoku's drop but he made up for it on the two point catch, which turned out to be huge).
Really fun game for both teams. Sets up a GREAT game in Pitt in two weeks. If you didn't see the NFL prime team doing snow angles it is below. Clarrissa Thompson does them in her white/cream outfit. She refers to Winston as "A national treasure". LOL
The game was really two games as the first half was played on a decent field with the second half being played in a snow globe. That snow really shut down pass rushes as it was tough to get started out of your stance. Garrett may have had a dozen sacks if not for that snow.
I was never a Winston fan but he has been really great with the Browns on and off the field. The snow was really heavy and wet so the passing and catching were pretty special (except for Njoku's drop but he made up for it on the two point catch, which turned out to be huge).
Really fun game for both teams. Sets up a GREAT game in Pitt in two weeks. If you didn't see the NFL prime team doing snow angles it is below. Clarrissa Thompson does them in her white/cream outfit. She refers to Winston as "A national treasure". LOL
I think he's a walking billboard for the impact of CTE unfortunately. Genuinely concerned about his mental health
It probably won't matter to you but let me provide some context to my perspective.
Suppose we teleport Garrett back to OSU and he pulls the same stunt with the helmet and the racist accusations to Beau or Jaxon Smolik?
Would you be speaking similarly of Garrett if my hypothetical has actually occurred? And would your attitude be the same towards our QB's as it is to Rudolph?
From all accounts, Mason was a very good teammate as is a very good person. And people like him I believe are worthy of defending.
WRT the actual game, it appeared like the Steelers were trying to deploy Fields the way PSU utilizes BP. But it did not fool the Browns and actually hurt the continuity of the Steelers offense.
Garrett played a great 1st half and a rivalry game in inclement weather produced an entertaining contest that the Steelers under Mike T have been able to figure some way to not win.
Fair enough. But Garrett has been a great guy and player since he was drafted so the event with Rudolph is really out of context and character. Perhaps Garrett thought he heard the slur. Perhaps someone other than Rudolf said it. Perhaps Rudolf said something similar but not the "n" word.
The only other thing that Garrett ever had against him was that he has several speeding tickets and once totaled a Porche on a back road when he was exceeding the speed limit on a slippery, newly-wet road. he is involved and very vocal with several local and international charities. His teammates love him.
question....on the play where the Browns QB threw the call at the feet of an offensive lineman and the refs were deciding if it was intentional grounding.
I think the announcing team blew the call 100%. I think the ref called some kind of pre-snap penalty (motion) that nullified the play. There was no choice but to take the five yard penalty and replay the down. The browns then made the first down that led to the winning TD.
Is that how you saw it? It was clearly grounding if not
I think the announcing team blew the call 100%. I think the ref called some kind of pre-snap penalty (motion) that nullified the play. There was no choice but to take the five yard penalty and replay the down. The browns then made the first down that led to the winning TD.
Is that how you saw it? It was clearly grounding if not
No, the refs called it illegal touching by the o lineman who actually bent down and tried to catch the ball. Refs must have thought the pass would have reached the line of scrimmage if not touched by the lineman so it wouldn’t have been intentional grounding.🤷🏿♂️
Tomlinson said he was confused because he thought at first it was intentional grounding. He decided to take the penalty as it was better to move them back five yards if they were going to try a field goal.
No, I think it was what they said which is illegal touching by that offensive lineman. However, the rule is ridiculous and needs to be changed. It was going to be grounding so it was going to be 4th and long but the guy touches the ball and gives them a lucky break of only losing 5 yards and repeat the down. Seems like they could have called two penalties or let the ref use his judgment that it was going to be grounding and disregard the illegal touching. The Steelers got screwed on that.
Of course, with all that said and the way the Steelers were defending crucial 4th down plays I am pretty sure on a 4th and 15 or whatever it would be Winston would have run around and heaved some prayer into the snowstorm that freaking Jerry Jeudy would have caught for like his 13th catch of the night and a big first down.
I think grounding would have also been loss of play. The play was a 3rd and 2 and that made it 3rd and 6 allowing the Browns to run a play. If it was 4th down, they'd have either had to kick a FG (tough ask from the 34 meaning a 51-yarder in that weather) or go for it. The ESPN play by plan is also not clear although it does point out the illegal touching penalty as you said.
3rd & 2 at PIT 25
(2:00 - 4th) M.Dunn reported in as eligible. J.Winston pass incomplete short middle [P.Queen].PENALTY on CLV-E.Pocic, Illegal Touch Pass, 4 yards, enforced at PIT 25 - No Play.4th & 1 at PIT 24
(1:55 - 4th) Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:55.3rd & 6 at PIT 29
(1:55 - 4th) (Shotgun) J.Winston pass short left to J.Jeudy to PIT 14 for 15 yards (J.Porter) [L.Ogunjobi].PENALTY on PIT-B.Bishop, Defensive Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 14.1st & Goal at PIT 9
(1:43 - 4th) (Shotgun) N.Chubb right guard to PIT 2 for 7 yards (M.Fitzpatrick, T.Watt).2nd & Goal at PIT 2
(0:57 - 4th) (Shotgun) N.Chubb up the middle for 2 yards, TOUCHDOWN. TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. J.Winston pass to J.Jeudy is incomplete. ATTEMPT FAILS.& Goal at PIT 2
(0:57 - 4th) PENALTY on CLV-W.Reid, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 2 - No Play.
Grounding is a ten yard penalty plus loss of down which would have been huge. Like @ryoder1 stated, Steelers got screwed.
I don’t know if intentionally but it easily could have been grounding as it never crossed the line of scrimmage and there were no receivers anywhere near it.
The lineman definitely reached down and grabbed it. Should have been both penalties called and the Steelers choose which one enforced. ……st least, IMO.
I would need to see the replay to check how close the ball was to crossing the line of scrimmage. If it is not touched then the ball probably travels another yard at the most. Why would they not have reviewed it and made the grounding call if it was going to be that? Committing that illegal touching penalty helped the Browns and a penalty should not end up being a favorable advantage for a team committing the penalty.
Another thing about this game. Who the hell was on Jerry Jeudy for crying out loud?!
Was this Porter Jr.?
You look at this game and the Steelers did just enough to lose. Let's see we have a missed FG and a 15 yard shanked punt that sets up the Browns close to midfield instead of their own 30 at the most crucial time you needed a good punt. Two blown 4th and short plays along with idiotic let's run the ball in the middle of a stacked defensive line on every first down. And yes let's continue to run Harris instead of going more to Warren because we like averaging 1 yard per attempt. Last but certainly not least let's make freaking Jameis Winston and Jerry Jeudy look like Montana and Rice while letting them convert on every 4th down attempt.
Was this Porter Jr.?
You look at this game and the Steelers did just enough to lose. Let's see we have a missed FG and a 15 yard shanked punt that sets up the Browns close to midfield instead of their own 30 at the most crucial time you needed a good punt. Two blown 4th and short plays along with idiotic let's run the ball in the middle of a stacked defensive line on every first down. And yes let's continue to run Harris instead of going more to Warren because we like averaging 1 yard per attempt. Last but certainly not least let's make freaking Jameis Winston and Jerry Jeudy look like Montana and Rice while letting them convert on every 4th down attempt.
With regard to the grounding/illegal touching penalty, Winston’s arm was hit by a pass rusher as he was throwing it causing an erratic trajectory of the ball. I believe that is why it was called illegal touching as an OL who is ineligible cannot be the first to touch the ball. I believe this may have been discussed during the broadcast. Maybe the OL thought it could have been a fumble and why he attempted to take possession of the ball.
You forget that Mason was charging Garrett like a man possessed while Garrett had one of his arms being held back by another player, and his free hand had the helmet. To me this was a typical gut reaction fright or flight response to the charge by Mason and totally out of character for him. Had it been me in that situation I probably would have done the same.
Jeudy was a 15th overall pick out of Alabama by the Denver Broncos. He's never lived up to his hype and the Broncos traded him to the Browns last March. he's shown flashes but his best game was yesterday by far.
So, I just read that #68 reported as eligible on the play and was at the end of the line with two TEs a step back when the ball was snapped. While he didn't touch the ball it can be considered that he was "in the area" and that was what caused so much confusion. So it was initially called intentional grounding but after the refs were confused, they determined that he was in the area but an ineligible OL touched the ball while it was still in the air.
One last thought on this: WTF was TJ Watt? I grew up a Steelers fan and still root for them over the Browns on most occasions. I was goofing off and talking smack but backed down as I thought for sure Watt would have a career day.
The Browns have lost both of their top LTs in Willis and Dawad Jones. They started Germain Ifedi who was cut then signed to the practice squad only to be upgraded in Oct. He's a 30-year-old journeyman who has been with six teams. On the right, the Browns started Jack Conklin who is an all-pro but has been hurt most of the season. Why didn't the Steelers move Watt over to the right side where he'd go against Ifedi?
I think the Steelers came in a little big-headed. Chubb, who got hurt last year against the Steelers, is a game-changer and they didn't anticipate his impact. Watt also pissed off Myles Garrett which isn't a great idea regardless of who should have won DPOY last year.
The Browns have lost both of their top LTs in Willis and Dawad Jones. They started Germain Ifedi who was cut then signed to the practice squad only to be upgraded in Oct. He's a 30-year-old journeyman who has been with six teams. On the right, the Browns started Jack Conklin who is an all-pro but has been hurt most of the season. Why didn't the Steelers move Watt over to the right side where he'd go against Ifedi?
I think the Steelers came in a little big-headed. Chubb, who got hurt last year against the Steelers, is a game-changer and they didn't anticipate his impact. Watt also pissed off Myles Garrett which isn't a great idea regardless of who should have won DPOY last year.
Of course it was. Dude looked unstoppable and of course it was the Stillers who couldn't stop him.
Yeah Watt did nothing. Poor perfornance which contributed to Winston looking like John Elway.
Cleveland just lucked out big time on that play. But shame on the Stillers for being completely incapable of getting crucial stops when they needed it. The Winston rushing TD on 4th down, the 4th down conversion earlier on this last Cleveland drive and then the third and 7 conversion after the illegal touching penalty. Just brutally bad defense when you need a stop.
That explains a lot of the confusion. And actually makes sense….a rarity today.
I don’t think Watt had ever played on the other side. Haven’t seen it even once.
The right side starter was out but the guy that played had done well when he was in in other games.
Big headed…..maybe but I doubt it. They were 1-4-1 in the last six in Cleveland. 1-7 on the road on Thursday night games. If they weren’t ready for a tough game they are all stupid as hell.
Bigger issues are the Steelers just played a Rock ‘em Sock ‘em game against the hated Baltimore Ravens while the Browns took an afternoon nap against the Saints. Steelers were tired out by end of game and that cold weather probably added to the stiff and soreness they had.
Additionally offensive play selection sucked, the Browns had everybody in the box and played to stop the run on first and second downs. Steelers should have used a lot of play action and hit the tight ends across the middle on first down several times. Terrible play selection
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Watt is doubled or "chipped" on most plays but he was largely invisible. Steelers have to do a better job of getting him in opportunities to make plays
Steelers got minimal pressure hence Winston took advantage. Didn't help that Jeudy played the game of his life.
To be fair, Jeudy had a better game last week--had like 150 and a score against the Saints (I went against him in fantasy so I sadly remember because who the hell plays him)
I think it’s safe to say that the coaching component did not uphold the standard.
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