How do they classify PA high schools if they're private, like a Catholic school?

AWS1022

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You talked about what goes on around Erie but you must not get out much other than that. As someone who has coached in Pennsylvania and Maryland I’ve been successful to the point where I’ve Coached in state championship games in basketball and baseball in both places I can tell you that the amount of private schools that actively recruit is over 90%. I could go to a youth league tournament on a Saturday in Pittsburgh and count a dozen private schools they’re talking to every 13 year old that they want to play for their school. Go watch a Beaver Valley red or black team in baseball and they’ll have five different private school coaches come to a midweek scrimmage.

As bad as that is it’s 10 times worse in the Philly suburbs. There are kids from Delaware New Jersey and Maryland playing for some of the Philly private schools. I took my high school basketball team from Maryland up to play in a summer showcase at Widener and in between games there were at least three private school coaches talking to my players. as a high school coach I have to go to these tournaments to watch my middle schoolers who should be coming to me just to ward off the private school coaches. I’m not even talking about the elite private schools like Dematha St. John’s or Gonzaga I’m saying even the B or c level teams that want to come and get kids who I will probably cut
First of all, getting middle school kids to come to your private high school is not really recruiting. As far as them coming to summer tournaments and talking to the varsity kids, then yes, that’s a problem that should be dealt with. But I think your 90% figure is quite high. Most private schools are Christian schools or small Catholic schools and they aren’t recruiting. Many of them do have the benefit of the kids playing together from grade school on up, but they’re not recruiting. I’m all for moving the schools that are caught recruiting up to the highest level or having separate classifications for public and private, but even if they did that, you’d then have certain public schools that win it every year and the other schools would complain.
 

AWS1022

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I think all you need to do is look at the number of kids who previously were in other school districts relative to the non-athlete student body. If there are way more athletes transferring in with a class than there are non-athletes then they are recruiting and their offending programs go to 6A qualification for the next decade.
But even the schools that aren’t doing that get accused of recruiting by the parents and coaches of public schools. I experienced it both as a student and as a coach. My high school didn’t recruit but got accused of it all the time and I coached against a private school who was always accused of it, but I knew all their players from the time they were little kids and they didn’t recruit either.
 

bison13

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First of all, getting middle school kids to come to your private high school is not really recruiting. As far as them coming to summer tournaments and talking to the varsity kids, then yes, that’s a problem that should be dealt with. But I think your 90% figure is quite high. Most private schools are Christian schools or small Catholic schools and they aren’t recruiting. Many of them do have the benefit of the kids playing together from grade school on up, but they’re not recruiting. I’m all for moving the schools that are caught recruiting up to the highest level or having separate classifications for public and private, but even if they did that, you’d then have certain public schools that win it every year and the other schools would complain.
If you play at a public middle school than they are absolutely recruiting you. Ever wonder why so many of those private schools have only a couple of hundred kids in their kindergarten through eighth grade programs but then when they get the high school they have double the size? That’s almost every single private school.
 
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AWS1022

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If you play at a public middle school than they are absolutely recruiting you. Ever wonder why so many of those private schools have only a couple of hundred kids in their kindergarten through eighth grade programs but then when they get the high school they have double the size? That’s almost every single private school.
It’s not recruiting, it’s trying to get kids to come to your school. I went to public school out in the county through 8th grade then went to private school in the city and no one talked to me about athletics. I went because they had better academics. Middle school kids should be able to go to a private high school if they want to. Are public schools recruiting when kids in private middle school decide to go to the public high school because that happens quite frequently as well.
 

bison13

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It’s not recruiting, it’s trying to get kids to come to your school. I went to public school out in the county through 8th grade then went to private school in the city and no one talked to me about athletics. I went because they had better academics. Middle school kids should be able to go to a private high school if they want to. Are public schools recruiting when kids in private middle school decide to go to the public high school because that happens quite frequently as well.
Where does that happen that kids go from a private middle school to a public high school? I’ve honestly never seen that in either Pennsylvania or Maryland.

If you look at the enrollment for all of these K-12 private schools you’ll see that K through eighth grade is less than half of what nine through 12 is for most of them. Do you ever wonder why those private schools can offer one team per sport for middle school sports for those kids and then the high school teams have a varsity and JV and freshman team?

My baseball assistant coach has a son in seventh grade. He coaches his summer team with mostly kids who all attend the same middle school. In there weeknight league is a team of kids who attend Mount Saint Joseph’s high school which is a very good private school in Baltimore. These are the kids who are enrolled in their middle school and the team blows. I will scrimmage the varsity and JV teams for Mount Saint Joe’s and they will kick my ass because they’ve recruited kids from all over the state of Maryland as well as having one or 2 Kids Who drive down from just above the mason Dixon line in Pennsylvania. Track how many kids play at the private school middle school teams and then make the varsity a few years later, It’s very few.
 

AWS1022

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Where does that happen that kids go from a private middle school to a public high school? I’ve honestly never seen that in either Pennsylvania or Maryland.

If you look at the enrollment for all of these K-12 private schools you’ll see that K through eighth grade is less than half of what nine through 12 is for most of them. Do you ever wonder why those private schools can offer one team per sport for middle school sports for those kids and then the high school teams have a varsity and JV and freshman team?

My baseball assistant coach has a son in seventh grade. He coaches his summer team with mostly kids who all attend the same middle school. In there weeknight league is a team of kids who attend Mount Saint Joseph’s high school which is a very good private school in Baltimore. These are the kids who are enrolled in their middle school and the team blows. I will scrimmage the varsity and JV teams for Mount Saint Joe’s and they will kick my ass because they’ve recruited kids from all over the state of Maryland as well as having one or 2 Kids Who drive down from just above the mason Dixon line in Pennsylvania. Track how many kids play at the private school middle school teams and then make the varsity a few years later, It’s very few.
I’ve seen many kids go from private to public because they can’t handle the academics. I’ve also seen many kids leave small private schools to go to larger public schools to get more exposure and play against better competition. One of the best girls basketball players I ever coached against (in PA) left a private school to go to a public school because she couldn’t keep up her grades. A large number of private schools don’t have varsity, JV and freshmen teams because they don’t have enough kids. I coached a 6th grade boys basketball team that beat a private high school JV team. You’re lumping all private schools in with the big athletic factories and they’re not all like that. Most are smaller than the public schools and have limited athletic resources.
 

bison13

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I’ve seen many kids go from private to public because they can’t handle the academics. I’ve also seen many kids leave small private schools to go to larger public schools to get more exposure and play against better competition. One of the best girls basketball players I ever coached against (in PA) left a private school to go to a public school because she couldn’t keep up her grades. A large number of private schools don’t have varsity, JV and freshmen teams because they don’t have enough kids. I coached a 6th grade boys basketball team that beat a private high school JV team. You’re lumping all private schools in with the big athletic factories and they’re not all like that. Most are smaller than the public schools and have limited athletic resources.
Sorry we will have to disagree, in two states and 23 years it's 90+% that recruit. I dont know of a single private that doesnt have a JV basketball team. Football team, yeah I know some very small ones that dont but they also still recruit kids by selling them that they will play varsity for four years.

Your comments about the kids leaving private to public doesnt mean the public recruited them but rather they couldn't cut it at the private who does recruit over them.

Down here in MD we have a 'C' conference private school (so essentially JV level talent at a decent school) who hired the 13U head coach from one of the most prominent youth football programs in the area to coach their varsity. You think they hired him for his coaching ability, hell naw, they wanted him to bring some of his 13U team with him. I never saw a school with such high academic requirements to get in have so many kids take remedial english as freshmen.
 

psrurock

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Just to pour a little gas on this fire, two District 11 teams will play teams from District 12 again this year in the first round of PA's playoffs. Both are known for recruiting.

Parkland (6A classification) plays St. Joe's who has beaten the District 11 team 7 times since 2013, including Parkland in 2013, 2014, 2016 and 2017. Talk about a tough draw!

Whitehall (5A) plays Imhotep who has also eliminated 7 District 11 champs.

Then again, Allentown Central Catholic, who used to be known for recruiting, beat undefeated Jersey Shore on Friday.

I am not sure how to fix the private vs. public issue, but the current system isn't ideal.
Jersey Shore, where I attended high school has a great program. Back to Back seasons they played in the State tournament. This year lost to Allentown Central Catholic, last year Aliquippa. You tell me how a pure local school system is supposed to compete with schools who have players from California on the team. WINK WINK! and everyone knows it. Aliquippa had 2 players over 270 on the offensive line. With only 38 male students to choose from, why does every male participate on the football team. BTW I just moved here from MD so I don't have a dog in the fight. Just asking? My school competed against Bisons'
 

Parkland Fan

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Jersey Shore, where I attended high school has a great program. Back to Back seasons they played in the State tournament. This year lost to Allentown Central Catholic, last year Aliquippa. You tell me how a pure local school system is supposed to compete with schools who have players from California on the team. WINK WINK! and everyone knows it. Aliquippa had 2 players over 270 on the offensive line. With only 38 male students to choose from, why does every male participate on the football team. BTW I just moved here from MD so I don't have a dog in the fight. Just asking? My school competed against Bisons'
This discussion on recruiting covers only one side of the issue. In my experience, which goes back to the late 90s and early 00s, the parents were often heavily involved. They would look for the best opportunity for their kid then let the coaches know they were open.
For example, some football programs in the Lehigh Valley back then were in steep decline - Allen, Dieroff, Salisbury and Emmaus. Parents were willing to pay the tuition and transfer their kid to Allentown Central which was and still is a powerhouse. Similar dynamic existed around Bethlehem Catholic. I am not sure how much of this was on the coach or the parent.
 

AWS1022

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Sorry we will have to disagree, in two states and 23 years it's 90+% that recruit. I dont know of a single private that doesnt have a JV basketball team. Football team, yeah I know some very small ones that dont but they also still recruit kids by selling them that they will play varsity for four years.

Your comments about the kids leaving private to public doesnt mean the public recruited them but rather they couldn't cut it at the private who does recruit over them.

Down here in MD we have a 'C' conference private school (so essentially JV level talent at a decent school) who hired the 13U head coach from one of the most prominent youth football programs in the area to coach their varsity. You think they hired him for his coaching ability, hell naw, they wanted him to bring some of his 13U team with him. I never saw a school with such high academic requirements to get in have so many kids take remedial english as freshmen.
You said I needed to get out more to see what’s going on, I suggest you do the same. Get away from the big cities and see what’s happening with private schools in smaller counties across different states. It’s nowhere near 90%. It’s funny, out of every private school I am familiar with across three states, only 3 of them recruit yet you’re saying 90% do it. I find that hard to believe.
 

bison13

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You said I needed to get out more to see what’s going on, I suggest you do the same. Get away from the big cities and see what’s happening with private schools in smaller counties across different states. It’s nowhere near 90%. It’s funny, out of every private school I am familiar with across three states, only 3 of them recruit yet you’re saying 90% do it. I find that hard to believe.
I grew up and coached in washington county PA, my hs had a graduating class of 34 last year. Bishop Canevin, beaver county christian, lincoln park, OLSH, central catholic, weirton madonna from WV, steubenville catholic central from OH, these are all schools that would be at youth league or summer league games recruiting public school players. There is some new 'academy' or something in Washington PA that plays out of some old rec center that is now recruiting kids too. Its not just baltimore and Philly.
 
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fkkkjm

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St Ignatius in Cleveland has kids from all over the area and housing for them near campus


Several years ago the state had a lower class powerhouse named CAPE in cincy. CAPE stood for cincy academy for physical education. 9th graders opting to be physical Ed majors, I guess. The state shut it down after a few years


Finally I know a lawyer that prosecuted Massillon for recruiting. The school got penalized but the guys had to move he and his wife out of the area due to threats
Ohio is ridiculous. It gets old seeing the same 6 or 7 catholic schools every year. You have public schools with an all time great team and they inevitably have to beat 2, maybe 3 between Ed’s, Iggy, X, Elder, Moeller.
 
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psrurock

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Just look at the remaining schools left in the Piaa State football playoffs. These schools have players from other areas that happened to transfer in. I could name names but I'm not going to. A local coach team just lost to Steelton. He called them out on it. Players from North Carolina and various other schools transferred in and they are stacked. Community based schools can't compete with the athletes on these teams..Exposure results in d1 looks.