I know that some of you have prematurely buried Joe Lee, but I have not. I still believe that, in spite of whatever setbacks he's had, Joe will win the 157 spot and will AA in the Spring. I realize that there is excitement about Negron and talk about Barraclough, but I think Joe has the potential to exceed either of them at Nats. I do not have any inside information, but I trust the earlier insights from Hoosier Lion. More than anything else, for Joe it is a mental battle. He has to believe in himself.
I have not given up on Joe Lee
- Thread starter IndianaNittanyLion
- Start date
I haven't given up on him either. I found it interesting that Lee's certification weight was at (174) per track wrestling records. That's a significant drop, and a poorly managed cut, could be the route of many of his issues in regards to competition and wrestle offs. Time will tell.
Me neither. That said, I am not sure he will be the "man" at 57 this year. It might take him a little longer to develop and put things together.
I'm all for the best guy getting the call. If or when that guy is Joe Lee, I will be all in. Until then I don't see what's to be gained by speculating why he's not the guy or that he would necessarily be a better option.
Last edited:
Certification Weight is meaningless without additional data. On the surface, all this means is he weighed anywhere between 165.1 - 174.0 on Cert Day.
Being listed on Cert Day at 2 weights above target is fairly common. (Occasionally will see some guys at 3 weights above.)
Not something worth interpreting.
He needs to get in a bunch of matches, fast, if he's going to be the starter and qualify for NCAAs. Why? Because it's important for seeding/results of B1Gs, which impacts both qualifying AND seeding for NCAAs. A couple of seeding positions at B1Gs can be the difference between making the semi-finals and going 0-2 and hoping/praying to get an at-large.
The days of 40 matches/season are over, at least for Penn State guys, especially the starters. In 2019, what I'll call the last "normal" season, Nick Lee had 35 matches, followed by RBY with 32, with 10+ of those being B1Gs or NCAAs. Clarion Open, Bearcat Open, and other open dates have already come and gone. The difference between a 10-8 record and 8th place at B1Gs and 15-8 and 5/6/7th at B1Gs cannot be overstated. Depending on how things shake out with allocations at the weight, that's not going to the big show at all vs a top 16 seed.
At some point, he has to WRESTLE. Tick tock, tick tock.
The days of 40 matches/season are over, at least for Penn State guys, especially the starters. In 2019, what I'll call the last "normal" season, Nick Lee had 35 matches, followed by RBY with 32, with 10+ of those being B1Gs or NCAAs. Clarion Open, Bearcat Open, and other open dates have already come and gone. The difference between a 10-8 record and 8th place at B1Gs and 15-8 and 5/6/7th at B1Gs cannot be overstated. Depending on how things shake out with allocations at the weight, that's not going to the big show at all vs a top 16 seed.
At some point, he has to WRESTLE. Tick tock, tick tock.
I haven't given up on Lee at all. I have given up on seeing him wrestle this year, as for some reason (I don't think anyone really knows, but everyone speculates) he hasn't suited up.
At some point, and I'm well past that point, I moved on and pinned hopes to others at the weight. That's more a result from just not seeing Joe, less the result of thinking he doesn't have the ability to wrestle.
At some point, and I'm well past that point, I moved on and pinned hopes to others at the weight. That's more a result from just not seeing Joe, less the result of thinking he doesn't have the ability to wrestle.
Huh? So you’re saying placing higher at B1Gs and having a better record is better? 🤔
I miss the days of 40+ matches too.
But no amount of matches wrestled at those Opens effects his post season seeding. Unless he wrestles B1G duals.
So he would still have some control of his destiny, if he can get in there.
That's my understanding anyway.
You got me there. Winning is good. Placing higher is good, too.
I'm suggesting that, if he had wrestled at some opens and scored some wins over top-15 or 20 wrestlers, and then goes 4-4 in B1G duals, as opposed to JUST wrestling B1G duals and going 4-4, he'd likely be seeded higher at B1Gs, which generally means easier first round opponents and a higher likelihood of a better placing.
There have been a LOT of opportunities to wrestle and build/improve RPI.
Yeah. Good point. I was just ball busting out of boredom. Thanks for being a good sport!
I can’t wait for more wrestling to happen!
Well, maybe. B10 seeding is supposed to be based upon conference results. So it most likely helps only as a tie-breaker among other 4-4 wrestlers, or if those Opens wins were B10 wrestlers in non-conference action.
Would help more with NCAA seeding.
Agreed. That said, getting some more Ws against ranked opponents early in the year, in relatively low pressure matches at opens, might turn that theoretical 4-4 record into a 5-3 record. Experience matters.
I have not given up on Joe Lee..
That said - I am not expecting anything from him either.. Sure it is possible he figures it all out, just not counting on it..
That said - I am not expecting anything from him either.. Sure it is possible he figures it all out, just not counting on it..
Norman Dale also said "my team is on the floor".Norman mother-f’ing Dale up in here.
Coach Dale was nothing without Jimmy Chitwood..
Shooter was a better coach imo. Without the “sauce” of course.
Like I said, the fact Cael didn't get him an extra match against Lehigh (even at 165) or send him to Journeyman shows there's more than meets the eye with Joe right now. If it's injury, hopefully it's not that knee from last year.
I mentioned before, even if Joe can yolo chuck a kid in wrestlebacks and get a pin, that's 2.5 points at 157 that we could really use right now. Hell, that's worth more than making the quarter finals with two 3-2 decisions then losing out and going R12.
I mentioned before, even if Joe can yolo chuck a kid in wrestlebacks and get a pin, that's 2.5 points at 157 that we could really use right now. Hell, that's worth more than making the quarter finals with two 3-2 decisions then losing out and going R12.
