If Nick beats Coon ....

[dunkej01]

2-0 on RT and E where will the boards thoughts be on the weight loss that dominated the scuffle discussions?

Personally I dont see Coon shooting on Nick at all but may score off a reshot or on nick getting out of position on his shot. This could be a classic heavy match and end 1-1 and force OT where conditioning might just be what gets the W.

 

[LemonPie]

Coon is another guy who would have been better off staying around 245

 

[dunkej01]

Coon is another guy who would have been better off staying around 245

I think I heard on FRL today that Coon has a small cut for hvy. Could be wrong as I had it on background.

 

[El-Jefe]

Coon is another guy who would have been better off staying around 245

Aesthetically true but results wise, he would likely already be a 2x champ except for losses to Gwiz and Snyder, who he wasn't beating anyway.

IMO Coon's future is and has been Greco. If that doesn't work out, could see him giving the NFL a shot -- was a very good HS player, declined an offer from Nick Satan in order to wrestle. (Michigan Aerospace major vs. Alabama didn't hurt.) In either case, bulking up is probably good for him.

 

[LemonPie]

If that doesn't work out, could see him giving the NFL a shot -- was a very good HS player, declined an offer from Nick Satan in order to wrestle. (Michigan Aerospace major vs. Alabama didn't hurt.) In either case, bulking up is probably good for him.

I highly doubt that. Wrestlers tend to exaggerate their football abilities.

Doesn't show up on this list of 2013 offers
https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Season/2013-Football/Offers

Doesn't show up on top recruits from Michigan either
https://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=MI

Probably offered a couple preferred walk-on spots. Same story with Seth Nevills. It's not so much that they chose wrestling, but that Football didn't choose them.

 

[El-Jefe]

I highly doubt that. Wrestlers tend to exaggerate their football abilities.

Doesn't show up on this list of 2013 offers
https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Season/2013-Football/Offers

Doesn't show up on top recruits from Michigan either
https://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=MI

Probably offered a couple preferred walk-on spots. Same story with Seth Nevills. It's not so much that they chose wrestling, but that Football didn't choose them.

Saban offered him to be a LB, after he had already committed to Michigan wrestling. No idea why he didn't show up in their list. Was a late offer.

Then there's this:
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/hello-adam-coon-wrestling-opts-wrestling-over-football-now

But feel free to focus on his Greco prospects instead, that's the more likely cause for growth above his HS 260 lb.

 

[LemonPie]

Saban offered him to be a LB, after he had already committed to Michigan wrestling. No idea why he didn't show up in their list. Was a late offer.

Then there's this:
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/hello-adam-coon-wrestling-opts-wrestling-over-football-now

But feel free to focus on his Greco prospects instead, that's the more likely cause for growth above his HS 260 lb.

He doesn't show up anywhere as a football recruit. That info in the link is likely coming from the Coons.. Walk-on offers are still offers, but if he was offered a scholarship, it would be documented.

As for Greco, I won't see a single match of his. I couldn't care less about that sport and USA wrestling agrees.

 

[nerfstate]

I dunno, that Bey kid is pretty exciting, the guy who beat him at trials ain't bad either. GR will never be even my 2nd favorite style, but good wrestling is always fun to watch.

 

[El-Jefe]

He doesn't show up anywhere as a football recruit. That info in the link is likely coming from the Coons.. Walk-on offers are still offers, but if he was offered a scholarship, it would be documented.

As for Greco, I won't see a single match of his. I couldn't care less about that sport and USA wrestling agrees.

Still think he would be better at 245 even though he wasn't exactly a tub of goo at 260 in HS?

 

[LemonPie]

Still think he would be better at 245 even though he wasn't exactly a tub of goo at 260 in HS?

He weighed in at 249.6 in June of 2013 (after his senior year). So I don't know what you want me to say. That you were right? No, you were wrong on both accounts.

You should know that extra goo isn't really a good thing. Your boy Hoffman lost his and became an elite recruit.

 

[El-Jefe]

He weighed in at 249.6 in June of 2013 (after his senior year). So I don't know what you want me to say. That you were right? No, you were wrong on both accounts.

You should know about how extra goo isn't really a good thing. Your boy Hoffman lost his and became an elite recruit.

"He weighed in at 249 in June 2013 and I think he should have maintained that" would have sufficed. Did you take nasty pills today?

Since you seem to have better access to weigh-in data, show me when Hoffman was gooey. And no he's not my boy. But you knew that. You just don't want to admit to being wrong when I said he was going to be very good, because at least at the time you discounted PA kids.

 

[LemonPie]

"He weighed in at 249 in June 2013 and I think he should have maintained that" would have sufficed. Did you take nasty pills today?

Since you seem to have better access to weigh-in data, show me when Hoffman was gooey. And no he's not my boy. But you knew that. You just don't want to admit to being wrong when I said he was going to be very good, because at least at the time you discounted PA kids.

Oh, I was wrong about Gavin. I'll take that one. The PA stuff was trolling and Cutch angst, but my view of Gavin was definitely wrong.

Track had him at 218.4 in July 2016 at Fargo

 

[manatree]

I prefer the term jiggly over gooey.

 

[jammenz]

Just looking at results and wondering if Cael needs to hire a dedicated heavyweight coach?

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Just looking at results and wondering if Cael needs to hire a dedicated heavyweight coach?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[El-Jefe]

Oh, I was wrong about Gavin. I'll take that one. The PA stuff was trolling and Cutch angst, but my view of Gavin was definitely wrong.

Track had him at 218.4 in July 2016 at Fargo

And good call on that event, he admitted the weight made him feel sluggish.

For context: that Fargo was an experiment to see if he might be a college HWT, after he won states as a SO 195. Got teched by Schultz, felt sluggish, 197 it is.

BTW, I do appreciate the data on Coon. Yeah, with that 249 weigh-in, would've been nice to see him in that range. Wish most heavies would follow the Gwiz and Snyder model of maximizing athleticism. Sadly most would rather be large, plodding, and strong instead of quick and strong. Hopefully Steveson doesn't fall into that trap.

 

[El-Jefe]

Just looking at results and wondering if Cael needs to hire a dedicated heavyweight coach?

Just looking at Minnesota's results the past 10 years and wondering if they need to hire a dedicated coach.

PS, most of us will be rooting for the Goofers to avoid a shutout this weekend. Don't let us down!

 

[Gebmo]

Just looking at results and wondering if Cael needs to hire a dedicated heavyweight coach?

Not quite. Cameron Wade first year ranked 30th. Next year about 15th. Next 9th. Didn't AA but improved every year. Jimmy Lawson fought injury, but was 14th, next year Gingrich 14th, then Jimmy 8th and finished AA (Lost to Gwiz both years I think). Next year was the year NN got hurt, now NN is an AA.

Take away injuries and PSU's heavies have been good and always improving. I think the coaches have done a great job there and its only looking up.

 

[matter7172]

Just looking at results and wondering if Cael needs to hire a dedicated heavyweight coach?

I think all we need is you to convince Gable Steveson to transfer to Penn State.

 

[lookleft goright]

And good call on that event, he admitted the weight made him feel sluggish.

For context: that Fargo was an experiment to see if he might be a college HWT, after he won states as a SO 195. Got teched by Schultz, felt sluggish, 197 it is.

BTW, I do appreciate the data on Coon. Yeah, with that 249 weigh-in, would've been nice to see him in that range. Wish most heavies would follow the Gwiz and Snyder model of maximizing athleticism. Sadly most would rather be large, plodding, and strong instead of quick and strong. Hopefully Steveson doesn't fall into that trap.

I don't think they want to be large and plodding. I just think that is what they have to work with. If you are a very good athlete and you are that big, you can make a fortune playing football. That severely limits the wrestling talent pool to work with.

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't think they want to be large and plodding. I just think that is what they have to work with. If you are a very good athlete and you are that big, you can make a fortune playing football. That severely limits the wrestling talent pool to work with.

Agree to an extent. Yeah, we lose a lot to football. And not every HWT can train to be Usain Bolt. (OK, none of them can )

Yet we see guys who get slower from year to year. (Like me at work ... kinda.) Barring injury, that's a training choice.

 

[Divided42]

2-0 on RT and E where will the boards thoughts be on the weight loss that dominated the scuffle discussions?

Personally I dont see Coon shooting on Nick at all but may score off a reshot or on nick getting out of position on his shot. This could be a classic heavy match and end 1-1 and force OT where conditioning might just be what gets the W.

As a Michigan fan I'm looking forward to the dual and this bout, along with a few others in particular. Nevills definitely has a shot to beat Coon, though I'd favor Adam, but there is no way Nevills rides him for an entire period. Adam definitely has his faults but getting out from bottom isn't one of them, as far as I know he has never been ridden for a significant amount of time by anyone. Even from Mr Staller himself, Tony Nelson, when Coon was a true frosh.

 

[James Toney]

Nick is not beating Coon. Not from what I have seen so far. I remember seeing the Coon-Wood match and seeing Adam was on Woods legs numerous times but Jordan kicked out so many times so he could not get the TD. Nick has looked slow and saw a few people on his legs this year. On top of that Nick has really not been able to get to his shots. Coon should win this match by a TD or two.

 

[El-Jefe]

Nick is not beating Coon. Not from what I have seen so far. I remember seeing the Coon-Wood match and seeing Adam was on Woods legs numerous times but Jordan kicked out so many times so he could not get the TD. Nick has looked slow and saw a few people on his legs this year. On top of that Nick has really not been able to get to his shots. Coon should win this match by a TD or two.

Coon's 2 takedowns vs. Wood were both counters. Both times Wood shot. The 2nd one was an atrocious shot, Coon stuffed it easily.

IIRC the time Coon got deepest on his own attack was a throw by then drop down. Which counts but it's not as if he shot. It's a get him off balance attack. If Nick maintains good position and balance, that won't work.

 

[James Toney]

Coon's 2 takedowns vs. Wood were both counters. Both times Wood shot. The 2nd one was an atrocious shot, Coon stuffed it easily.

IIRC the time Coon got deepest on his own attack was a throw by then drop down. Which counts but it's not as if he shot. It's a get him off balance attack. If Nick maintains good position and balance, that won't work.

I honestly do not recall how Coon got to Woods legs but thought I remember him on them a few times and woods kicked out nice to avoid a TD? I do remember the TD Coon got was from terrible Woods shot near end of match. Nick has looked off balance a few times and even Woods was super close to getting TD on Nevils at the edge, just needed to grab other ankle. Obviously I hope I am wrong and Nick beats him, I just do not see it. And as big as Coon and his legs are, should Nick even attempt a shot? Once heavies gets stuck under neath it’s a disaster as his opponent gets an easy go behind. Regardless it should be a good match to see where Nick is at and if he made any adjustments from the scuffle.

 

[El-Jefe]

I honestly do not recall how Coon got to Woods legs but thought I remember him on them a few times and woods kicked out nice to avoid a TD? I do remember the TD Coon got was from terrible Woods shot near end of match. Nick has looked off balance a few times and even Woods was super close to getting TD on Nevils at the edge, just needed to grab other ankle. Obviously I hope I am wrong and Nick beats him, I just do not see it. And as big as Coon and his legs are, should Nick even attempt a shot? Once heavies gets stuck under neath it’s a disaster as his opponent gets an easy go behind. Regardless it should be a good match to see where Nick is at and if he made any adjustments from the scuffle.

I'm with you, if forced to pick I hope I'm wrong.

Agree that most shots are really hard vs. Coon unless you're Snyder. The 2 shots that I think can work, are both in Nick's arsenal. The snatch single could be there, but need to drive thru it, not pull it back. I think Coon also could be had on an ankle pick ... but haven't seen that from Nick in a while.

Of course they won't work if he doesn't use them ...

 

[slushhead]

Coon 2-1.

Each guy gets an escape, and Coon wins on a stalling point for pushing Nevills out-of-bounds.

 

[nitlion6]

Coon 2-1.

Each guy gets an escape, and Coon wins on a stalling point for pushing Nevills out-of-bounds.

Michigan must be using a Big10 football crew to ref this match.

 

[slushhead]

Michigan must be using a Big10 football crew to ref this match.

I wish they were going to be wrestling on a football field . . . because I expect Coon to be doing a lot of pushing.

I hope someone makes sure Cael knows to have Nick ready for that.
[Is that spykerism too stale, yet?]

 

[diggerpup]

Nevills can’t takedown Coon - not if he sticks with the same plodding, sluggish pace he’s been wrestling so far this year.

Cook can takedown Nevills

Until we see some offense and quick movement from Nevills, this entire thread is a homer dream world, unfortunately.

 

[nitlion6]

Nevills can’t twkedown Coon - not if he sticks with the same plodding, sluggish pace he’s been wrestling so far this year.

Cook can takedown Nevills

Until we see some offense and quick movement from Nevills, this entire thread is a homer dream world, unfortunately.

When/if Nick starts wrestling I think we see it just show up. I do not think there is going to be a gradual warm-up.
Ever the optimist I believe tonight is the night we go "holy shyt, where has that been!?"

 

[liex26]

Just looking at results and wondering if Cael needs to hire a dedicated heavyweight coach?

You have Jrobs contact info?

 

[jammenz]

Take away injuries and PSU's heavies have been good and always improving. I think the coaches have done a great job there and its only looking up.

A 5th and a 6th in nine years?! If only all your weights were this successful.
It is telling that Iowa State won a hvy title once they got rid of Cael.

 

[nitlion6]

How pathetic is it for someone to grab a morsel and hang onto it as a lifesaver, when the big picture paints the morsel as meaningless?
Oh nevermind. We are talking about a goof.

 

[PSUer1989]

Let him have his lifesaver....takes so little to make some folks happy!

 

[Gebmo]

A 5th and a 6th in nine years?! If only all your weights were this successful.
It is telling that Iowa State won a hvy title once they got rid of Cael.

As usual you missed (purposely I'm sure) the point.

Any way you look at it, I'm feeling pretty good about our heavy situation.

 

[Brian LB-U]

As a Michigan fan I'm looking forward to the dual and this bout, along with a few others in particular. Nevills definitely has a shot to beat Coon, though I'd favor Adam, but there is no way Nevills rides him for an entire period. Adam definitely has his faults but getting out from bottom isn't one of them, as far as I know he has never been ridden for a significant amount of time by anyone. Even from Mr Staller himself, Tony Nelson, when Coon was a true frosh.

Good luck tonight. Any word on Massa's status? He's one of my favorite non-PSU wrestlers and it would be really unfortunate if he's not ready to go against Cenzo in what would surely be an epic bout.

 

[jammenz]

How pathetic ...

But not as pathetic as Penn States hvy drought. At least the Squawkeyes realized that TNT were never gonna get it done and spent big money to poach Big Ben Berhow out of MN. Dip into that infamous slush fund and maybe you can get Adam Coon or Michael Kroells before NASA hires them.

 

[Gebmo]

But not as pathetic as Penn States hvy drought. At least the Squawkeyes realized that TNT were never gonna get it done and spent big money to poach Big Ben Berhow out of MN. Dip into that infamous slush fund and maybe you can get Adam Coon or Michael Kroells before NASA hires them.

Is that the Michael Kroells that lost 3 times to Nick Nevills last year?

 

[greenmanRD]

But not as pathetic as Penn States hvy drought. At least the Squawkeyes realized that TNT were never gonna get it done and spent big money to poach Big Ben Berhow out of MN. Dip into that infamous slush fund and maybe you can get Adam Coon or Michael Kroells before NASA hires them.

Yes, noted champions Adam Coon and Michael Kroells.