If you can only choose 1?

[GogglesPaizano]

As a long time Bassett fan and follower, I have almost surprised myself here, but I have to lean Forrest. His positional awareness, athleticism and speed remind me of DT, not to mention his spider like lean frame that will only fill in out through time. Despite his thin build, strength is not a problem for him against much stronger builds. I honestly don't know how high his ceiling could be, it seems limitless.

PS - The only really sane answer to the question is BOTH!

 

[KCLion]

As a long time Bassett fan and follower, I have almost surprised myself here, but I have to lean Forrest. His positional awareness, athleticism and speed remind me of DT, not to mention his spider like lean frame that will only fill in out through time. Despite his thin build, strength is not a problem for him against much stronger builds. I honestly don't know how high his ceiling could be, it seems limitless.

PS - The only really sane answer to the question is BOTH!

Add in the age difference, but I want both!

 

[nerfstate]

Ed Ruth, or DT? Nolf or Nickal? AB, or CStar?

 

[matter7172]

Defeatist thinking.

 

[HOCKEYGOD11]

 

[FatWoodchuck]

Seems like a good thread to post OT.

4X'ers only 7 exist, 1, along time ago.
2) 20+ years
3)10ish years ago
4)less than 10ish years ago
5)last year
6&7)this year
Excuse my laziness for not looking up the years it happened.

Anyhow, we went from none two afew in what, 30+ years? Over doubled that in less than 10 years.

I don't expect the current trend to hold at all. With high school wrestling and PSU wrestling what is today, how can you possibly get a four timer anytime soon? New recruits bump old recruits, young studs beating ncaa Champs, I just don't see a four timer happening anytime soon! Atleast until this Era of wrestling is "leveled"🤷 so to speak

Thoughts!?

 

[OzarkLion]

Seems like a good thread to post OT.

4X'ers only 7 exist, 1, along time ago.
2) 20+ years
3)10ish years ago
4)less than 10ish years ago
5)last year
6&7)this year
Excuse my laziness for not looking up the years it happened.

Anyhow, we went from none two afew in what, 30+ years? Over doubled that in less than 10 years.

I don't expect the current trend to hold at all. With high school wrestling and PSU wrestling what is today, how can you possibly get a four timer anytime soon? New recruits bump old recruits, young studs beating ncaa Champs, I just don't see a four timer happening anytime soon! Atleast until this Era of wrestling is "leveled"🤷 so to speak

Thoughts!?

I think at least one of Jax, Bassett, or Lilledahl ends up a 4xer. There's too much talent there to think otherwise.

 

[PAwrestling]

Give me Bassett cuz with Bassett most likely comes Miller.

 

[NCPsuFan]

Seems like a good thread to post OT.

4X'ers only 7 exist, 1, along time ago.
2) 20+ years
3)10ish years ago
4)less than 10ish years ago
5)last year
6&7)this year
Excuse my laziness for not looking up the years it happened.

Anyhow, we went from none two afew in what, 30+ years? Over doubled that in less than 10 years.

I don't expect the current trend to hold at all. With high school wrestling and PSU wrestling what is today, how can you possibly get a four timer anytime soon? New recruits bump old recruits, young studs beating ncaa Champs, I just don't see a four timer happening anytime soon! Atleast until this Era of wrestling is "leveled"🤷 so to speak

Thoughts!?

I tend to agree with this a bit. The sport has evolved and these kids (most club kids) are wrestling year around. Add in the Jiu Jitsu schools that will lead to Junior / High wrestling and you are seeing the evolution of the sport. These kids scramble like never before and they are technically superior to years past. Thus the reason Iowa is fading.

I see the same thing happening with Women’s wrestling. The amount of girls now wrestling compared to ten years ago is unimaginable. This is going to lead to some surprises at Women’s Olympic trials and the youth movement is coming. 2 Olympic cycles and US women dominate the world.

The only disturbing (also subjective) trend I see in wrestling is that it’s becoming a sport that is costing families much more time and money for their kids. The top kids are all coming from club wrestling and not everyone has placement/access and resources to this. I guess it’s the nature of the sport but seems to be something USA wrestling should be looking at. I’m sure they are.

 

[Delcolion915]

I just watched the last most recent match between Luke and Jax. Wow. Lilledahl had Forrest dead to rights 3 different times and Forrest was just slippery and rubber like. He "Delgado'd" his way out of them. I'm wondering if he holds 125, he looks a lot like a young Vito actually and I think he probably grows at least to 133 maybe even 141 eventually. Forrest has some things you can't teach. Bassett has different talents but equally great. Bassett is more like the Mesenbrink/Lee/Retherford pace driven gifts.

Man I can't choose between them. Too close to call.

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't expect the current trend to hold at all. With high school wrestling and PSU wrestling what is today, how can you possibly get a four timer anytime soon? New recruits bump old recruits, young studs beating ncaa Champs, I just don't see a four timer happening anytime soon! Atleast until this Era of wrestling is "leveled"🤷 so to speak

Thoughts!?

As a trend, of course not. 4x champs don't grow on trees.

But not anytime soon? We just crowned 3 of them in the past 2 years, and who's to say Figueroa can't be next?

 

[El-Jefe]

I just watched the last most recent match between Luke and Jax. Wow. Lilledahl had Forrest dead to rights 3 different times and Forrest was just slippery and rubber like. He "Delgado'd" his way out of them. I'm wondering if he holds 125, he looks a lot like a young Vito actually and I think he probably grows at least to 133 maybe even 141 eventually. Forrest has some things you can't teach. Bassett has different talents but equally great. Bassett is more like the Mesenbrink/Lee/Retherford pace driven gifts.

Man I can't choose between them. Too close to call.

No way Forrest is a college 125. He just wrestled 127 this year as a HS SO.

His dad wrestled 150 for Binghamton in the 1990s. So for now, let's guess 149.

 

[SJP80]

I feel like Bassett has optimized where he is right now. He has been wrestling since very young, a bazillion reps, really good training / workout regimen and great training partners. More strength, more pace, great defense, super solid fundamentally. High ceiling, high floor. However, I feel like Jax is much more creative, Nolf-esq, with a much higher ceiling than Bo, same high floor. IMHO more likely to be a multiple time champion than Bo (assuming of course he chooses the right university to attend)

 

[Random4598375]

Seems like a good thread to post OT.

4X'ers only 7 exist, 1, along time ago.
2) 20+ years
3)10ish years ago
4)less than 10ish years ago
5)last year
6&7)this year
Excuse my laziness for not looking up the years it happened.

Anyhow, we went from none two afew in what, 30+ years? Over doubled that in less than 10 years.

I don't expect the current trend to hold at all. With high school wrestling and PSU wrestling what is today, how can you possibly get a four timer anytime soon? New recruits bump old recruits, young studs beating ncaa Champs, I just don't see a four timer happening anytime soon! Atleast until this Era of wrestling is "leveled"🤷 so to speak

Thoughts!?

I don't know, Mesenbrink could very well end up one brain fart about riding time away from a 4-timer. Between him and Haines, they could both be 2-1-1-1 guys, which is as close to 4-timers as you can be.

You have more elite kids in terms of talent in this day and age who are ready to compete at elite levels from the jump in college. I think there will be more. Not every year, but we won't have to wait 20 years for the next one.

The other issue is that for years, freshmen weren't allowed to compete, so you might have to look at 3-timers from that era and guess which might have joined the list. Obviously, they can't be included without doing it, but there certainly could have been one or two more had they been eligible.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I don't know, Mesenbrink could very well end up one brain fart about riding time away from a 4-timer. Between him and Haines, they could both be 2-1-1-1 guys, which is as close to 4-timers as you can be.

You have more elite kids in terms of talent in this day and age who are ready to compete at elite levels from the jump in college. I think there will be more. Not every year, but we won't have to wait 20 years for the next one.

The other issue is that for years, freshmen weren't allowed to compete, so you might have to look at 3-timers from that era and guess which might have joined the list. Obviously, they can't be included without doing it, but there certainly could have been one or two more had they been eligible.

if one assumes MM knew the score - it doesn't mean he was going to get a TD to win. Time was running out

 

[El-Jefe]

I don't know, Mesenbrink could very well end up one brain fart about riding time away from a 4-timer. Between him and Haines, they could both be 2-1-1-1 guys, which is as close to 4-timers as you can be.

You have more elite kids in terms of talent in this day and age who are ready to compete at elite levels from the jump in college. I think there will be more. Not every year, but we won't have to wait 20 years for the next one.

The other issue is that for years, freshmen weren't allowed to compete, so you might have to look at 3-timers from that era and guess which might have joined the list. Obviously, they can't be included without doing it, but there certainly could have been one or two more had they been eligible.

Mesenbrink could very well end up one too-easy double and subsequent 1:30+ of RT away from being a 4-timer.

 

[matter7172]

if one assumes MM knew the score - it doesn't mean he was going to get a TD to win. Time was running out

Iirc, MM had over 45 seconds to get a takedown, which in the 3rd period of a MM match would feel like about an hour to his opponent.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Iirc, MM had over 45 seconds to get a takedown, which in the 3rd period of a MM match would feel like about an hour to his opponent.

yep, and he was trying to get one until, seemingly, the last 10 seconds. imo

 

[GogglesPaizano]

I can definitely see MM taking a run at being our first and only xxx-1 wrestler, and that loss, as a freshman, being by one point to a multi time champ. He just may not lose again if he continues to develop, as it seems he is. He is not satisfied with where he is at, and has the right mind set. If he gets a Hodge or two along the way he may have the strongest case for PSU's best ever. 3 more years to find out, I can't wait.

 

[El-Jefe]

I can definitely see MM taking a run at being our first and only xxx-1 wrestler, and that loss, as a freshman, being by one point to a multi time champ. He just may not lose again if he continues to develop, as it seems he is. He is not satisfied with where he is at, and has the right mind set. If he gets a Hodge or two along the way he may have the strongest case for PSU's best ever. 3 more years to find out, I can't wait.

You had me right up to "strongest case for PSU's best ever." We just crowned two 4x champs.

Mesenbrink's PSU career ceiling is Jason Nolf. Which is still stratospheric, and the best ever at all but the 5 teams to have a 4x champ.

 

[a_mshaffer]

You had me right up to "strongest case for PSU's best ever." We just crowned two 4x champs.

Mesenbrink's PSU career ceiling is Jason Nolf. Which is still stratospheric, and the best ever at all but the 5 teams to have a 4x champ.

think he was looking at it from a 'only 1 career loss' perspective'

 

[smalls103]

You had me right up to "strongest case for PSU's best ever." We just crowned two 4x champs.

Mesenbrink's PSU career ceiling is Jason Nolf. Which is still stratospheric, and the best ever at all but the 5 teams to have a 4x champ.

you're not considering the possibility that we have a couple more pandemics.

 

[El-Jefe]

you're not considering the possibility that we have a couple more pandemics.

Lol, not enough alcohol in the world for me to consider that.

 

[El-Jefe]

think he was looking at it from a 'only 1 career loss' perspective'

Sure, but the "fewest losses = best career" perspective means Martinez > Carter, Aaron, and Dake.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Sure, but the "fewest losses = best career" perspective means Martinez > Carter, Aaron, and Dake.

yep, gets into who you loss to, plus number of championships... need an agreement on the denominator

 

[Dwayne_Johnson33]

As a trend, of course not. 4x champs don't grow on trees.

But not anytime soon? We just crowned 3 of them in the past 2 years, and who's to say Figueroa can't be next?

Figs only has 2 years of eligibility left. He was behind Courtney his RsFr year.

 

[El-Jefe]

Figs only has 2 years of eligibility left. He was behind Courtney his RsFr year.

Good catch.

In which case, next possibility is either a 2024 shirt or an incoming freshman.

Josh Barr ... just has to get past Keckeisen this year. (I'm kidding. No way I'm pushing that!)

 

[Random4598375]

Good catch.

In which case, next possibility is either a 2024 shirt or an incoming freshman.

Josh Barr ... just has to get past Keckeisen this year. (I'm kidding. No way I'm pushing that!)

Lilledahl

 

[voltz99]

I think at least one of Jax, Bassett, or Lilledahl ends up a 4xer. There's too much talent there to think otherwise.

Possible but not probable.


If Taylor, Zain, Ruth, Nickal and nolf did not do it I am not sure you should predict anyone to be a 4 timer.

It is tough to stay focused for 5 years and never get hurt. They might even cross paths and end up in the same weights.

More likely that one of them does not win any.

 

[Delcolion915]

Lilledahl

I didn't see anyone on that podium, 1 through 8, this year who he can't beat, and beat convincingly. That includes Figs

 

[HikeNatParks]

Possible but not probable.


If Taylor, Zain, Ruth, Nickal and nolf did not do it I am not sure you should predict anyone to be a 4 timer.

It is tough to stay focused for 5 years and never get hurt. They might even cross paths and end up in the same weights.

More likely that one of them does not win any.

Agreed. For me, message board or not, it’s laughable, even flippant, to throw 4-time tags at high schoolers. Especially when each year delivers a new set of younger phenoms and a more experienced set of crafty vets. The casualness of 4-time expectations devalues the incredible accomplishment that winning ONE championship is. Secure a freshman title and let the discussion begin. Until then, let a teen chase a goal few in his sport will ever achieve . . . even once.

 

[billrag]

Mesenbrink didn't have to get a takedown in the 3rd period. Does anyone think that if that match goes to sudden victory that Mesenbrink doesn't come out on top? It was a horrific brain fart, because he would have won had he pushed the pace even harder.

Regarding the initial question, I want both Forrest and Bassett, but in addition to deciding which has the higher floor or higher ceiling, quite obviously you have to consider whether one or the other is at a weight class of need for PSU at that time and I'm not sure that you could realistically predict either. You also have to ask if option B or C at that weight are reasonably close to option A or is it obvious that Forrest and/or Bassett are head and shoulders better than anyone else in that class, the class before them or the class after them.

 

[FatWoodchuck]

But not anytime soon? We just crowned 3 of them in the past 2 years, and who's to say Figueroa can't be next?

This would continue the trend. I don't think figs has three years left though, plus ots 125 I don't see it cleaning up next year.

 

[FatWoodchuck]

Lilledahl

Crookham? 133 isn't gonna be a cake walk

 

[FatWoodchuck]

because he would have won had he pushed the pace even harder.

Starting to sound alot like Gia, just saying, It didn't happen and we can't live on the would haves, only on the what actually happened. Imo

 

[82bordeaux]

they could both be 2-1-1-1 guys, which is as close to 4-timers as you can be.

Wait. Isn't 1-1-1-6 on no ACLs better?

 

[GogglesPaizano]

think he was looking at it from a 'only 1 career loss' perspective'

You got it, plus I said a couple of Hodges along the way. As you know I am also huge on dominance being a big factor.

It's a bit nonsensical to even speculate at this point, but the point machine that Mitch is, "if" he were to run it out from here like Zain, and have his only loss as a 1 pointer to a 2xer, and he gains a Hodge or two along the way, he would be at the head of the conversation for sure.

Until such time I remain a loyal Nolfist, despite our having two 4xers in the mix.

 

[GogglesPaizano]

Mesenbrink didn't have to get a takedown in the 3rd period. Does anyone think that if that match goes to sudden victory that Mesenbrink doesn't come out on top? It was a horrific brain fart, because he would have won had he pushed the pace even harder.

Oddly enough, and no one has said it, but what 'might' have done Mitch in was one of the stall calls against Carr that many critics have questioned. Had Mitchell not received that point, there would have been zero confusion re: the urgency and need to get one more takedown late in the third. I think that point might have ultimately cost him.

PS - I agree with a rule change where once a riding time point is 'secured' the point goes up on the score board. One obvious complication is this will result in some instantaneous Tech Falls based upon the clock as opposed to 'current' action on the mat. I am good with that.

 

[Delcolion915]

Oddly enough, and no one has said it, but what 'might' have done Mitch in was one of the stall calls against Carr that many critics have questioned. Had Mitchell not received that point, there would have been zero confusion re: the urgency and need to get one more takedown late in the third. I think that point might have ultimately cost him.

PS - I agree with a rule change where once a riding time point is 'secured' the point goes up on the score board. One obvious complication is this will result in some instantaneous Tech Falls based upon the clock as opposed to 'current' action on the mat. I am good with that.

I agree with you on this. I think it's worth the instant tech fall to get the score correct matside. Do you think they propose the rule this off season?

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Oddly enough, and no one has said it, but what 'might' have done Mitch in was one of the stall calls against Carr that many critics have questioned. Had Mitchell not received that point, there would have been zero confusion re: the urgency and need to get one more takedown late in the third. I think that point might have ultimately cost him.

PS - I agree with a rule change where once a riding time point is 'secured' the point goes up on the score board. One obvious complication is this will result in some instantaneous Tech Falls based upon the clock as opposed to 'current' action on the mat. I am good with that.

Or maybe he THOUGHT the one point stall was 2?