Is anyone here looking at purchasing an EV in 2023 or 2024?

[Obliviax]

LOL..... nice rebuttal

There are no pooper outages where you live? I just bought a $10k gas generator having lived through several multi day outages in the last five years. Plus CA just passed a law so new car sales by 2035 need to be EVs. That isn’t30 years.

BTW can you give me a list of new power sources being built in CA?

 

[SLUPSU]

There are no pooper outages where you live? I just bought a $10k gas generator having lived through several multi day outages in the last five years. Plus CA just passed a law so new car sales by 2035 need to be EVs. That isn’t30 years.

BTW can you give me a list of new power sources being built in CA?

What's a pooper outage? LOL

Anyway, you're changing the subject to grid reliability, we were talking about grid capacity.

 

[Obliviax]

What's a pooper outage? LOL

Anyway, you're changing the subject to grid reliability, we were talking about grid capacity.

Nope. My OP was about the problems of EVs. You focused on one. I am sure I am correct. Power industry has struggled to keep up, can’t wait to double or triple the load with little increased capacity

 

[SLUPSU]

Nope. My OP was about the problems of EVs. You focused on one. I am sure I am correct. Power industry has struggled to keep up, can’t wait to double or triple the load with little increased capacity

But the real issue, that nobody seems to want to talk about, what happens when we get to 40% + EVs? Where is the new electrical demand going to come from?

Nope.... you brought up "the real issue", I responded. Keep shifting the goalposts, I don't you even know what you think you're correct about.

 

[Obliviax]

Nope.... you brought up "the real issue", I responded. Keep shifting the goalposts, I don't you even know what you think you're correct about.

I stand on my comment. CA passed a law that all new car sales had to be EV by 2035. They’ve made zero investment in the E grid. And somehow you expect the most powerful source of energy, car fuel, to be absorbed by the grid while making no investment in it.

i ask again, can you provide a list of improvements to the power grid planned for CA? Thanks in advance

 

[SLUPSU]

I stand on my comment. CA passed a law that all new car sales had to be EV by 2035. They’ve made zero investment in the E grid. And somehow you expect the most powerful source of energy, car fuel, to be absorbed by the grid while making no investment in it.

i ask again, can you provide a list of improvements to the power grid planned for CA? Thanks in advance

You're misrepresenting my comments and position, I never said EV power demand can be "absorbed" now. I swear it's like talking to brick walls with you guys. You're free to look up CA grid improvements and figure it out for yourself, regardless, that's beside the point.

The US has excess capacity NOW to easily handle a number of years of growth in EV deployment if they are charged during off-peak hours. Stop twisting that factual statement to suggest I believe we have enough nighttime capacity to handle a 100% transition to EV's now, we clearly don't. We have decades to grow power production as needed to get to a 100% transition.

I anxiously await your next misrepresentation, deflection, strawman, or lie.

 

[Obliviax]

You're misrepresenting my comments and position, I never said EV power demand can be "absorbed" now. I swear it's like talking to brick walls with you guys. You're free to look up CA grid improvements and figure it out for yourself, regardless, that's beside the point.

The US has excess capacity NOW to easily handle a number of years of growth in EV deployment if they are charged during off-peak hours. Stop twisting that factual statement to suggest I believe we have enough nighttime capacity to handle a 100% transition to EV's now, we clearly don't. We have decades to grow power production as needed to get to a 100% transition.

I anxiously await your next misrepresentation, deflection, strawman, or lie.

Here is your problem. You are looking at it at the macro level. Because some guy in Montana or a specific person enjoys excess capacity, that means nothing to the guy who lives in downtown San Francisco who may not. Or a guy who has access to Tesla superchargers near a whole food, and the next guy that lives in Deplains Illinois and does not. The challenge is providing electricity to all people, at all times, under all conditions in every location. Each state and provider is different. CA, for example, already has power problems and only 1% of their cars are EVs. They have allocated money but have done ZERO to get more electricity. What do you think is gonna happen when there is a proposal to build a windmill off the coast of Malibu or Santa Barbara? what is gonna happen to the guy who drove 200 miles, plugs his car in, and CA has a rolling blackout? What about the guy who has a tree fall down and cut service for a few days? what about the guy who pulls into a supercharger and there is a line of 7 cars? What about the guy living in TX who has no power for a week due to an ice storm?

The fact is, electricity is volatile. Gas is too, but we've built infrastructure around it and mitigated its weaknesses. That hasn't been done with electricity for cars and will be a big problem. Count on it.

Just like me buying an uninterruptible gas power supply to fuel my electricity when my power is cut. There are a million stories in the city. ICE car problems have been realized, accounted for and understood for decades. We have a lot of learning to do. I am simply suggesting that swapping out our primary power system for millions of cars in ten years is a daunting task and won't be accomplished in ten years, period.

 

[SLUPSU]

Here is your problem. You are looking at it at the macro level. Because some guy in Montana or a specific person enjoys excess capacity, that means nothing to the guy who lives in downtown San Francisco who may not. Or a guy who has access to Tesla superchargers near a whole food, and the next guy that lives in Deplains Illinois and does not. The challenge is providing electricity to all people, at all times, under all conditions in every location. Each state and provider is different. CA, for example, already has power problems and only 1% of their cars are EVs. They have allocated money but have done ZERO to get more electricity. What do you think is gonna happen when there is a proposal to build a windmill off the coast of Malibu or Santa Barbara? what is gonna happen to the guy who drove 200 miles, plugs his car in, and CA has a rolling blackout? What about the guy who has a tree fall down and cut service for a few days? what about the guy who pulls into a supercharger and there is a line of 7 cars? What about the guy living in TX who has no power for a week due to an ice storm?

The fact is, electricity is volatile. Gas is too, but we've built infrastructure around it and mitigated its weaknesses. That hasn't been done with electricity for cars and will be a big problem. Count on it.

Just like me buying an uninterruptible gas power supply to fuel my electricity when my power is cut. There are a million stories in the city. ICE car problems have been realized, accounted for and understood for decades. We have a lot of learning to do. I am simply suggesting that swapping out our primary power system for millions of cars in ten years is a daunting task and won't be accomplished in ten years, period.

No. Your problem is that you don't understand that everyone has excess capacity available during off-peak hours, ergo... OFF-PEAK. Your criteria can easily be met with time because everyone with access to electricity will easily have the ability to get charged up within the next few decades NOT just ten years. You can pick and choose your potential local problems it DOES NOT change that they have excess capacity during off-peak hours. Your problem is your rigid lack of vision is an ideological problem and as usual, you have again taken this discussion way off topic.

 

[Obliviax]

No. Your problem is that you don't understand that everyone has excess capacity available during off-peak hours, ergo... OFF-PEAK. Your criteria can easily be met with time because everyone with access to electricity will easily have the ability to get charged up within the next few decades NOT just ten years. You can pick and choose your potential local problems it DOES NOT change that they have excess capacity during off-peak hours. Your problem is your rigid lack of vision is an ideological problem and as usual, you have again taken this discussion way off topic.

nope. If I have excess capacity Monday/Saturday, it makes no difference if I don't have capacity on Sunday. CA has already had rolling blackouts during hot summer months. What, people won't need to charge their EVs in the summer? people won't need to charge them during the day? What you are saying is "hey, why don't you people just air condition your homes at night? You need it when you need it. If there is "excess capacity" why have they had rolling blackouts in peak months? Just use the excess!

Rolling blackouts? California prepares for energy shortfalls in hot, dry summer

State models assume the state will have 1,700 fewer megawatts of power than it needs during the times of highest demand — typically early evening as the sun sets — in the hottest months when air conditioners are in full use.

www.kcra.com

Fossil fuels are far easier to store, transport and proportion than electricity. This is the same reason why I invested in a gas-powered uninterruptible electric generator. The supply is far less vulnerable and when it is, they're easy steps to mitigate it. Electric just isn't the same.

you are looking at the macro level. That makes no difference to the micro level. What you are saying is like saying "stroke is no big deal. Most people never have strokes".

 

[SLUPSU]

nope. If I have excess capacity Monday/Saturday, it makes no difference if I don't have capacity on Sunday. CA has already had rolling blackouts during hot summer months. What, people won't need to charge their EVs in the summer? people won't need to charge them during the day? What you are saying is "hey, why don't you people just air condition your homes at night? You need it when you need it. If there is "excess capacity" why have they had rolling blackouts in peak months? Just use the excess!

Rolling blackouts? California prepares for energy shortfalls in hot, dry summer

State models assume the state will have 1,700 fewer megawatts of power than it needs during the times of highest demand — typically early evening as the sun sets — in the hottest months when air conditioners are in full use.

www.kcra.com

Fossil fuels are far easier to store, transport and proportion than electricity. This is the same reason why I invested in a gas-powered uninterruptible electric generator. The supply is far less vulnerable and when it is, they're easy steps to mitigate it. Electric just isn't the same.

you are looking at the macro level. That makes no difference to the micro level. What you are saying is like saying "stroke is no big deal. Most people never have strokes".

SMH.... I'm talking about excess capacity available for charging only during OFF PEAK hours. When TX or CA has rolling blackouts it's because they are exceeding available capacity during PEAK hours and it's typically for an hour or two at a time.

"What you are saying is "hey, why don't you people just air condition your homes at night?"
No I'm not saying that. Use some common sense, 90% of all EV charging is already happening at night, and people just run the AC's less at night because it's cooler at night... and the lights get turned off .... and most businesses are closed ...... and schools are closed.... c'mon use your head. The difference in available capacity between peak and off-peak demand is typically around 40% in the summertime.

 

[Obliviax]

SMH.... I'm talking about excess capacity available for charging only during OFF PEAK hours. When TX or CA has rolling blackouts it's because they are exceeding available capacity during PEAK hours and it's typically for an hour or two at a time.

"What you are saying is "hey, why don't you people just air condition your homes at night?"
No I'm not saying that. Use some common sense, 90% of all EV charging is already happening at night, and people just run the AC's less at night because it's cooler at night... and the lights get turned off .... and most businesses are closed ...... and schools are closed.... c'mon use your head. The difference in available capacity between peak and off-peak demand is typically around 40% in the summertime.

I don't care. it not like rolling blackouts are going to go away especially when we add to the capacity needs in a massive way when we add a substantial number of EVs. Go tell the guy who can't charge is EV during Off Peak times and CA blacks out his power supply.

Again, you are looking at the macro level. its like I have one foot in a bucket of ice and the other in the fire, but on average everything is fine.

I am done with the conversation.

 

[SLUPSU]

I am done with the conversation.

Great!! You aren't willing to learn anyway.

 

[LemonEars]

I’m going to be buying an EV in 2023 or 2024 and I’m curious if others here can offer any tips on evolving technologies, batteries, buying in 2023 vs 2024, things to consider, “watch out fors“, thoughts on “higher end” models?

Before you buy your EV consider the following repair estimate for a 10 year old Chevy Volt with 70K miles.

 

[SLUPSU]

Before you buy your EV consider the following repair estimate for a 10 year old Chevy Volt with 70K miles.

Unlucky for that owner the battery seems to have crapped out at just over the 10-year warranty period. Lucky for that Volt hybrid owner, they can probably continue to drive it in gasoline-only mode and get over 300 miles of range. Spending that much for a small battery like that for a car that's only worth around $7k makes zero sense.

I don't believe that's a real estimate, but even at a third of that quote, it's still not worth it to replace. People are making these kinds of value decisions all the time with ICE cars.

 

[84Lion]

To each his own. What you fail to consider is the 10-20 times you spend 5-15 minutes filling up at your local gas station, for each time you need to fill up on a long trip. Unless you are doing monthly cross-country trips, EV charging is a net time savings.

Regarding cost, EVs are not expensive if you understand cost of ownership.

And, lastly, it’s funny that you sit around wringing your hands about the grid, while the global oil market has been a war-inducing, geopolitical roller coaster for 50 years - but that is just no big deal to you.

I was going to put together some long-winded rebuttal but then decided to let this speak for itself:

My understanding is that EVs and hybrids get about maybe 80,000 to 100,000 miles or so before the battery needs to be changed. Admittedly, most batteries aren't as expensive as noted above but they ain't cheap either. I checked and the NiMH battery in a Toyota Sienna goes for a cool $6,500+.

As far as the grid, no hand wringing here - it's a fact, the infrastructure does not exist to charge large numbers of electric vehicles. Apartment complexes, hotels, even streets are going to have to have charging stations installed, and then there are the issues with maintaining all that charging infrastructure...to say nothing of all the additional power generation equipment required. Sure, it all can be built - but the cost will be reflected in future electric bills.

Oil wars will be replaced by lithium wars.

 

[SLUPSU]

I was going to put together some long-winded rebuttal but then decided to let this speak for itself:

My understanding is that EVs and hybrids get about maybe 80,000 to 100,000 miles or so before the battery needs to be changed. Admittedly, most batteries aren't as expensive as noted above but they ain't cheap either. I checked and the NiMH battery in a Toyota Sienna goes for a cool $6,500+.

As far as the grid, no hand wringing here - it's a fact, the infrastructure does not exist to charge large numbers of electric vehicles. Apartment complexes, hotels, even streets are going to have to have charging stations installed, and then there are the issues with maintaining all that charging infrastructure...to say nothing of all the additional power generation equipment required. Sure, it all can be built - but the cost will be reflected in future electric bills.

Oil wars will be replaced by lithium wars.

I posted earlier when that image was posted that I didn't think it was real, I also stated that it is hard to justify spending a third of that price on a car that's worth $7k.

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Battery Assembly 20979876 | TascaParts.com

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt part # 20979876 - Battery Assembly

www.tascaparts.com

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Drive Motor Battery Pack 20979876 | OEM Part Depot

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Drive Motor Battery Pack 20979876

www.oempartdepot.com

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Battery Assembly 20979876 | Auto Parts Express

OEM 2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Part # 20979876 - Battery Assembly

www.gmpartsonline.net

 

[The Spin Meister]

I posted earlier when that image was posted that I didn't think it was real, I also stated that it is hard to justify spending a third of that price on a car that's worth $7k.

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Battery Assembly 20979876 | TascaParts.com

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt part # 20979876 - Battery Assembly

www.tascaparts.com

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Drive Motor Battery Pack 20979876 | OEM Part Depot

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Drive Motor Battery Pack 20979876

www.oempartdepot.com

2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Battery Assembly 20979876 | Auto Parts Express

OEM 2011-2014 Chevrolet Volt Part # 20979876 - Battery Assembly

www.gmpartsonline.net

Those are about seven grand....for remanufactured, not new.

 

[SLUPSU]

Those are about seven grand....for remanufactured, not new.

So what, the car hasn't been in production for years and new parts like an expensive battery probably aren't available (GM's website says it isn't available) Who would spend 30k or even 7k on a car worth 7k which I think can be driven as a gas-only car with a range of 300+ miles? Would you spend thousands on a new replacement engine on a ten-year-old car?

 

[MacNit07]

Could be...not sure why though. But the real issue, that nobody seems to want to talk about, what happens when we get to 40% + EVs? Where is the new electrical demand going to come from? What initiatives are going to yield that kind of electrical power in five to ten years? And this is a local problem meaning, WTF is going to happen in California? They already have rolling blackouts.

Perhaps California can be given back to Mexico?