Is LBJ now the GOAT?

[GreatBasinNit]

Of those 3 only Barkley was close. Hakeem was strictly a pivot man and Malone could not move with the ball. Only a guy who can play anywhere on the court should be considered as the GOAT. Barkley could do this but he definitely didn't handle the ball like Pippen. When Pippen was on the floor without MJ, he was still the best player on the court both on offense and defense. He certainly didn't get the recognition he deserved.

No doubt MJ was the greatest player until LeBron, and until this last championship, I think the numbers were in MJs favor, but MJ wouldn't have been anything like the player he was against the zone. It's like asking todays' NFL QBs WRs to play against the amount of contact, forearms etc. from DBs and hits after throwing that was allowed in the 70s and 80s.

Why are you so caught up on zone defenses? Zones can be easily beaten by ball movement, shooters, or better talent. Do you really think zone defenses would’ve had a significant impact on MJ’s numbers or production? I would argue that MJ's numbers would've been even greater against a zone because the triangle offense would've torn it to shreds.

LBJ is certainly in the top 5 best of all time, alongside Jordan. It is hard for me to put LBJ at number one because the rules in today's NBA certainly favor the offense more than any other era. I can remember Bill Laimbeer and Alonzo Mourning committing fouls against Jordan in the playoffs that would get them ejected in today's game.

 

[psu_et_vt]

Why are you so caught up on zone defenses? Zones can be easily beaten by ball movement, shooters, or better talent. Do you really think zone defenses would’ve had a significant impact on MJ’s numbers or production? I would argue that MJ's numbers would've been even greater against a zone because the triangle offense would've torn it to shreds.

LBJ is certainly in the top 5 best of all time, alongside Jordan. It is hard for me to put LBJ at number one because the rules in today's NBA certainly favor the offense more than any other era. I can remember Bill Laimbeer and Alonzo Mourning committing fouls against Jordan in the playoffs that would get them ejected in today's game.

Who’s running the triangle today? If it’s good against the zone why doesn’t Phil have Voegel run it?

 

[fearson05]

Let's look at nba all stars during each of their championship years:
1991 - Jordan (starter)
1992 - Jordan (starter), Pippen
1993 - Jordan (starter), Pippen (starter)
1996 - Jordan (starter), Pippen (starter)
1997 - Jordan (starter), Pippen (starter)
1998 - Jordan (starter) (Pippen held out at the start of the year and likely would have been a starter if not so let's count this)

6 championships, 1 other all star who started/would've started 4 of those years

2012 - LeBron (starter), Wade (starter), Bosh
2013 - LeBron (starter), Wade (starter), Bosh
2016 - LeBron (starter) (Irving was hurt to start the year but likely would have been an all star starter otherwise as he was game MVP in 14)
2020 - LeBron (starter), Davis (starter)

4 championships, 3/4 years with an all star starter, and 2/4 years with a third all star on team

I don't think anyone can legitimately make an argument that Jordan had more talented rosters to play with, and Pippen didn't really become a truly complementary player until championship #3. Pippen eventually became a star, but wasn't there yet in 91/92. They never had a third all star caliber player on those Bulls rosters.

Jordan's 1991 team was the least talented of the 10 listed and the 1992 team is probably the second least talented team on the list. The notion that he had the best supporting cast in those years is laughable. You are remembering the dominance of the second 3peat (where that might have been the case as Rodman was great in his role but was never an all star caliber player) and trying to apply that to the first one which doesn't hold water.

 

[bdgan]

Nothing beats plain old BJ.

I assume he's talking about a Long BJ

 

[psu_et_vt]

Let's look at nba all stars during each of their championship years:
1991 - Jordan (starter)
1992 - Jordan (starter), Pippen
1993 - Jordan (starter), Pippen (starter)
1996 - Jordan (starter), Pippen (starter)
1997 - Jordan (starter), Pippen (starter)
1998 - Jordan (starter) (Pippen held out at the start of the year and likely would have been a starter if not so let's count this)

6 championships, 1 other all star who started/would've started 4 of those years

2012 - LeBron (starter), Wade (starter), Bosh
2013 - LeBron (starter), Wade (starter), Bosh
2016 - LeBron (starter) (Irving was hurt to start the year but likely would have been an all star starter otherwise as he was game MVP in 14)
2020 - LeBron (starter), Davis (starter)

4 championships, 3/4 years with an all star starter, and 2/4 years with a third all star on team

I don't think anyone can legitimately make an argument that Jordan had more talented rosters to play with, and Pippen didn't really become a truly complementary player until championship #3. Pippen eventually became a star, but wasn't there yet in 91/92. They never had a third all star caliber player on those Bulls rosters.

Jordan's 1991 team was the least talented of the 10 listed and the 1992 team is probably the second least talented team on the list. The notion that he had the best supporting cast in those years is laughable. You are remembering the dominance of the second 3peat (where that might have been the case as Rodman was great in his role but was never an all star caliber player) and trying to apply that to the first one which doesn't hold water.

Scottie didn’t make All Star in those early years because he was overshadowed by MJ. Pippen had all star stats every year. And the 93-94 teams were pretty good without MJ. The teams LeBron left became lottery candidates

 

[DingerzForDaze]

I grew up watching MJ, and I was heavy into playing and watching hoops back then. He was everything. My favorite player ever, easily. Everyone wanted to be like Mike, and I was no exception.

I don't watch hoops as much anymore. Still a bit, but with work and parenthood and my kids not really being that into it, the interest has waned. LeBron never appeared very likeable to me, and I don't really like watching his style of play. Can't put a finger on it.

If I'm the captain of a pick-up game where I get to choose from NBA greats, I'm taking MJ over LBJ all day, every day.

And, yet, I think it's pretty clear LBJ is the better overall player ... the "GOAT" if you will ... if we're looking at it objectively. Not that he's a much better player ... just that I think it's clear he has the slim edge.

psu_et_vt or whatever his name is has covered the team aspect of this pretty well here ... when LBJ leaves a team, they go in the tank. When MJ left the Bulls the first time, they were still very competitive without him.